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"The Dark Knight Rises" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jul 20, 2012.

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"The Dark Knight Rises" - Rate and Discuss!

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  1. BatKid

    BatKid The True Batman

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    Agree to disagree then. For me, that's the bulk of who Dick is as his own individual character. The present traits Blake shares with Dick, I can attribute to the countless aspiring, idealistic, headstrong, hero-worshippers that have been in cinema as supporting characters. It's not very unique.

    I'm not talking about Robin the mantle, but the individuals adopting the persona. They are the "next in line", or at the very least, the most fit to take up that spot when it needs to be filled. Even back during Knightfall, the only reason Valley became Batman instead of Grayson, was because of the latter's recent spats with Bruce, and Bruce not wanting to get in the way of Grayson becoming his own man. In that same story however, everyone acknowledged Dick should have been the one taking his place. Dick himself said he would have had Bruce simply asked.

    Nightwing was still (a former) Robin. I'm aware that many have adopted the cape and cowl, but none have had as much impact and prominence in the lore than Robin has. He's arguably the closest figure to Bruce out of any other single supporting role. Grayson was Batman as recently as last year. For years now there have been several allusions that Drake has the makings of even being better than Bruce when he matures. The current Robin right now is literally the son of Batman. I don't know how anyone can ignore the parallels writers have been toying and hinting to for years.

    We've already agreed that Blake has much of the elements that make up the well known Robin's. Nolan doesn't want to continue or cover the actual Robin persona, but he did want to drive home the point that Batman is everlasting. A point he introduced back in Batman Begins. Considering Robin's comic history, particularly with taking up the Batman cowl, how is it not blatant at that point? The name isn't a coincidence, and Nolan isn't the type to throw out easter eggs that don't serve the story.
     
  2. Toddman

    Toddman Hulk not good with words.

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    Filling in for Batman and/or continuing to carry on for Batman is not why Robin was created, though. Creatively, it seems if an existing "Robin" assumes a new identity, that's when that character is allowed to come into his own. Grayson had been established as Nightwing for a dozen years before the debate you mentioned ever took place. Other characters who have adopted the identity of Batman (such as Terry McGinnis and Jean-Paul Valley) were never "Robins" to begin with. Even Tim Drake is now Red Robin, and although it may have been "alluded to" he'll never be allowed to replace Batman, so the point is really moot. Outside of parallel universes/alternate timelines, no writer has ever taken the plunge to let Robin stand on his own. It's why they keep making new Robins.


    Except this time :p.


    Toddman
     
  3. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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  4. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    When I caught the movie again, I was wondering if anyone thought there might've been a better way to keep Batman out of the picture for those five months leading up to the bomb's detonation. Maybe still break/temporarily mess his back up, but did he need to go to that prison?

    Also, I thought the passage of time could have been done better. I think a few of the complaints about the movie are mostly due to how the movie presents the passage of time. The five months moves along quickly, so we really only see snippets of what happens during those days. I don't mind it myself but it might actually answer some of the questions of those who thought that things happened so fast for everything.
     
  5. spartanx54

    spartanx54 Active Member

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    I really enjoyed the prison scenes. I wish that those scenes were longer. That prison is kind've important. In my opinion I saw a resemblance to the well Bruce falls in during Batman Begins. It's also the prison Talia and Bane were thrown in.
     
  6. Palin Dromos

    Palin Dromos The Abyss Stares Back

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    So I went to see it a second time, this time in IMAX. It looks great in IMAX, so much was shot in that format. If you have a chance to see it in IMAX it's a great way to spend 3 hours.

    Second viewing I caught a few more comics references. Some are probably obvious, but it's still fun to make the connections.

    The chalk tagging is a clear reference to the spary-paint tagging in NML.

    Bruce going out in a very public, and planned, blaze of glory is very similar to the end of The Dark Knight Returns. Indeed the impetus to kill the Batman was different in the comic, but Nolan's ending wasn't completely unprecedented.

    Foley was a featured character in the NML. On first viewing I couldn't remember if he was from Year One or Dark Victory, wrong on both counts.

    Can't believe I didn't consciously put it together before, but Bruce with a cane is a clear Batman Beyond ref.

    Bearded Bruce with the bow & arrow, reminded me a little of Oliver Queen

    Also I've seen various people complain about Bruce getting back into the locked down city; as well as people saying that Bane would have found the BAT parked on that roof, under the tarp, during the 5 months. Clearly the BAT was how Bruce got back into the city. It was parked in the cave when Bruce was beaten by Bane; and the Manor and Cave are not on the main Gotham island so when Bruce got back to the states he went straight to the cave. Additionally Batman probably took the Batpod to meet Selina before going into the tunnels to face Bane- the Batpod was still stored safely in the city when he gives it to Selina at the end.

    I liked it the first time I saw it, but enjoyed it even more the second time. I still like The Dark Knight more, but that's not a knock on this film. DK is the film I, as a fan, had always wanted. DKRises is the film I never thought I'd see, as a comic fan. I thought everyone had forgotten about NML, so seeing its influence all over this film was a huge treat. NML was the big comics event that was going on when I really started paying attention to the DCU and I love the idea that this film might drive more people to go read that event. Also looking forward to marathoning the whole trilogy when it's out on Blu-ray.
     
  7. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    I did end up making the drive to see it in true IMAX, and yeah, it was pretty incredible. Regular theater picture truly does look dull, fuzzy, and overall poor in comparison.

    Didn't really think of that. The Bat did remind me of BB.

    Didn't think of that, either.

    I saw the trilogy at an AMC theater, and it was definitely special to see the movies together like that. They connect so well.

    Some other comic references I thought were cool:
    • Bad guys working out of the sewers below Gotham; Batman visiting Gordon in the hospital; bridges to the city blown; martial law; and Batman recovering/rebuilding outside Gotham then returning to save the city from Batman: The Cult.
    • "So that's what that feels like" from Kingdom Come.
    • Bane using a nuclear device, originally intended as an energy source, as a bomb to fulfill Ra's al Ghul's intended destruction of Gotham from Batman: Bane.
    • Alfred resigning because he doesn't want to be a part of Bruce's "self-destruction" from Knightquest.

    A lot of stuff also, as you mentioned, from The Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, and of course also Knightfall.

    Though not comics, I greatly enjoyed the connections to A Tale of Two Cities, also.
     
  8. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

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    I really loved this movie. But one thing that does bother me is Bruces actually time as Batman. From Begins to The Dark Knight he was Batman a year or so. AT which time he defeats the Joker and disappears.Then he returns 8 years later fights a couple of people on a roof then gets broken by Bane. Goes away for 5 months then comes back and "dies". I really wish he had more adventures during that 8 years span and had the time to fight more odd characters from his gallery.
     
  9. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Good point. I actually don't know why Nolan chose 8 years for that hiatus, but if Batman was only in action for 1 year prior to the break, then that seems like it would be enough time to make a difference with crime and leave an impression on the public. Looking logically at the Nolan trilogy, it is more realistic that Batman wasn't doing the vigilante-thing for any longer than that. Afterall, this isn't the comics and it would be difficult to believe in reality that he operated for so long without getting killed or captured. Yeah, I know, as a Batman fan I shouldn't think that, but obviously Nolan's Batman is supposed to be grounded, so the character is much more humanized than his comic book version.
     
  10. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    I've only see the movie last weekend. I think it's a good movie. I'm known to have liked Batman Begins over TDK so I think this one is slightly better than TDK but still not as good as Batman Begins.

    I'm not going to do a full review as other poster already covered some of my opinions.

    I just would like to add this: Is it just me, or nobody really considered that the whole "Robin" line could be much more than just a line. Don't you think John Blake could really become Robin? Some sorte of Tim Drake's Red Robin? I really don't buy the whole retirement of Bruce Wayne. They went a long way to remove the vengeance aspect of Batman by having Joe Chill be killed by Falcone so Bruce would have to do more to satisfy his anger and sadness. And I don't buy also the retirement of Selina Kyle. She had a strong spirit, very rebel and with fire. She would never pass as a mere wife of a humanitarian billionaire.

    I think this movie ends with a possibility of Bruce Wayne running some sort of Batman Inc. leading a group of heroes around the world.

    I know the most obvious interpretation is Bruce Wayne is retired and John Blake is Batman, but I think there's room for this other interpretation as well. As someone said: Nolan is not know to throw easter eggs just for the sake of it.
     
  11. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    Batman Begins is great. Not a bad choice for top of the trilogy.

    Given his first name is Robin, I don't see him using that as his superhero name, too. Given how this whole trilogy has been about establishing the Batman symbol, and then restoring it in Rises, I think Batman will continue to be the city's protector.

    What's there not to buy? He has spent a solid chunk of this trilogy looking hoping for someone else to carry on for him protecting the city so he could live his life in happiness. He stated the symbol is bigger than the man and anyone could wear the mask. He gave Blake the location of the cave. And this is the conclusion to Nolan's take, so Bruce's story is over.

    No one said they were getting married. And if they did, I don't see how that would make her "mere" anything. Bruce is no longer a billionaire.
     
  12. MatthiasofRedwal

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    A couple of weeks ago, My brother and i saw "The Dark Knight Rises" and here are my thoughts in fragmented fashion
    1. The film is so dark it makes Batman Returns look like Watership Down - NO WAIT, better yet - It's so dark it makes David Lynch's "Blue Velvet" look tame in comparison
    2. Mostly all the film is depressing from the Cops (outside of 1 detective) turning against Batman b/c they believed he killed Harvey Dent right down to Bane's Revolution and Batman's untimely death
    3. The film had the nerve to have a build up before the credits in a film that supposed to be a conclusion, If it's the final film in your trilogy.. make it so
    4. Alfred is a jerk
    5. When the hell did Bruce Wayne become a cripple?

    In a nutshell, the film is the most depressing piece of over hyped piece of rubbish i've seen this year
    and before anyone gets on me about this, watch this: http://www.reviewtopia.net/content/anarchist/lunatic/2954-a-defense-of-joel-schumacher

    Mod Note: Post edited. Watch the language next time.
     
  13. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    I think there's a line stating that there were a little money on the trust after Bruce "died". I think he removed he money to a tax paradise or something to use it as a fund to his humanitarian projects and/or funding the new Batman (if is really retired) or to continue to be Batman without Wayne Enterprises.
     
  14. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

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    I would also say hes no longer Bruce Wayne anymore either. Both his Batman character and alter ego are "dead". So I wonder who he is running around as now as a civilian.
     
  15. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

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    Originally, after I saw the movie I looked at it as him shedding both of his masks, the public Wayne and Batman, leaving the "true" Bruce Wayne that we see at the cafe at the end. It only dawned on me recently that with the Clean Slate program, he's probably left everything of his past behind. And so yeah, Bruce Wayne as we've known him is probably more dead than I originally recognized.
     
  16. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Yeah, I'm slow. Actually I was planning to wait for the DVD, since I had no desire to be forced to sit for nearly three hours, but today my parents offered to pay my ticket, so....for free, why not.

    I was right; I really should have waited for the DVD. This movie needed an entire hour chopped out of it; most preferably the "Bane Tortures Bruce Wayne For An Hour" hour. It had stuff in it that I hate about the comics too: overwritten dialogue and misery for misery's sake. Is it too much to ask for more screentime for Batman in a BATMAN movie? I wanted more of those great pwn-the-enemy moments with Bats and Selina. Not Bruce writhing in agony with a broken back while he watches his beloved city deteriorate. That just went on and on and on and on and on. Not fun at all.

    Anyway, I lost the bladder test and had to run for the restroom at 2 hours 30 minutes. I don't know how Bruce got his costume back.
     
  17. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    Bane is the greatest villain ever!

    Seriously, Nolan's version of Bane is the one villain every superhero would want. Cultured, strong, and sounding like he always has a great time, with cunning and intelligence and charisma - he made this movie so great. And why it's so epic - the scale and destruction he creates is worthy of a grand finale.
     
  18. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Oh yeah, one other thing....how the holy heck did what Bane did to Bruce's stocks hold up? It doesn't matter whose fingerprints you have if you have to GO INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE STOCK EXCHANGE, SHOOT EVERYTHING UP, AND ANNOUNCE YOUR PRESENCE to do it. Why would they think it was Bruce after what he did? Any stock activity during that kind of downtime would be suspicious anyway! That doesn't make sense!
     
  19. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    It was mentioned in the movie that they would clear it up in the long run, but for the time being--with the city and network in chaos--there was no time to get things straightened out.
     
  20. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    True, I'd think that would throw up at least some red flags, but considering the speed some bureaucracies investigate and act it's not entirely impossible that it may take months to clear up the problem.

    I mean, consider the paperwork that needs to be written up! :p
     

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