"The Batman Versus Dracula" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Oct 18, 2005.

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Rate and Comment - "The Batman Versus Dracula"

  1. *****

    27.6%
  2. ****1/2

    16.0%
  3. ****

    25.6%
  4. ***1/2

    8.3%
  5. ***

    7.7%
  6. **1/2

    3.8%
  7. **

    3.8%
  8. *1/2

    1.3%
  9. *

    0.6%
  10. 1/2

    5.1%
  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey Administrator

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    The Dark Knight Finally Meets . . . The Prince of Darkness​


    [​IMG]

    The Batman Versus Dracula
    Release Date: October 18th, 2005
    Studio: Warner Bros. Animation

    Written by Duane Capizzi
    Directed by Michael Goguen


    Synopsis: Gotham City is terrorized not only by recent escapees Joker and Penguin, but by the original creature of the night, Dracula! Can Batman stop the ruthless vampire before he turns everyone in the city, including the aforementioned super villains into his mindless minions?

    Comments on The Batman Versus Dracula?

    Please post all discussions concerning about the The Batman Versus Dracula animated feature in this thread! Discussion for the home video release of The Batman Versus Dracula can be found in the proper talkback linked below.


    Related Threads:
    -The Batman Versus Dracula Feature Review (Spoilers)
    -The Batman Versus Dracula DVD Talkback (Spoilers)

    Note: This feature will also air Saturday on Cartoon Network! 7pm, Only Toonami.
     
  2. jv2k

    jv2k Faster than the fat flash

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    After being pleeding insanity to escape 20 years in prison a man is sent to Arkam for 10. He can't take anymore of it after a short amount of times and asks the penguin and joker(the 2 who have escaped arkam the most) if they could help him escape, if they do he'd split half of the money he stole with them. He foolishly trusts them with the general location of it and they eventually escape and leave him behind to take the money for themselves. While the Joker tangles with the batman, the penguin checks out the graveyard for the tomb behind the cross, trouble is, being a graveyard there are alot of crosses. Penguin opens the wrong grave, in the process cutting himself with his umbrella blade, his blood revives the corps inside, Count Dracula!
    While this is going on Joker and Batman are fighting on a bridge and durring the fight Joker loses his balance and dangles off the side, he offers his hand to batman so that batman can help him up, but the rain reviels that he has a powerful hand buzzer, batman doesn't grab and Joker lets go of the bridge. The fall shouldn't be enough to kill him, but he forgets the buzzer, as he hits the water he gets electricuted. Batman believes he is dead.
    Penguin is eventually hypnotized by dracula and acts as a servent to him. His job is to show Dracula around Gotham so that he can feed. Those fed on become lesser vampires who are his slaves. These missing people are dubbed lost ones by the media and Batman must find out what has happened with them, eventually tangling with Dracula himself.

    The story was really good, my only problem was Draculas specific targeting of Vicky Vale, why not just steal any womans soul from the street? They never mension why her. I also disliked some of the dialogue in the first part of the movie(though I loved jokers foreshadowing "I'm out for blood!"), most of the bad dialogue came from penguin though.
    Some of the best scenes in the movie:
    Blood bank
    vampire joker getting cured
    and the part right before Bats kills Dracula when dracula says "Your... bruce wayne!" Batman then holds up his cape which looks kinda like the bat signal in the light and goes "I'm the batman!"
     
  3. Doomsday

    Doomsday Superman`s Killer

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    Seen this movie last week and already posted an review so I'll just copy and paste what I said before with some minor changes.


    An overall good movie. What I thought made this better than most episodes isn't the blood but able to see more of the emotions of the characters. After the battle with the Joker, it was a great scene when Alfred asked Batman whats wrong and able to see how Batman is not out to capture the bad guys, but help save them as well. Probably my favorite part of the movie was Vicky Vale and I wish she played a bigger part with Bruce at the end. So hopefully we will see her again in the series. When Vicky was looking up on Bruce past, that scene was nicely done, easly my favorite scene. The music which I think was from Batman Begins, and her line "When you going to let someone rescue you?" But with all the things that went right with the movie, there was also the things that stunk. Music wasn't all to great throughout the movie. Using the same lines more than once, "This time I'm out for blood" first time might make since but the second when Alfred used it was just silly, his whole attitude during that scene was really bad... And really bugged me that at the end no one knows what happened, whats the big deal, theres no reason they shouldn't know. Fights scenes were great like normal, bloodbank fight was very nicely done. And the aftermatch with trying to come up with the cure was great too. Well Dracula was an interesting villian and so was the movie. Some things worked, some didn't and ended up being cheezy, overall though it is an good movie. Rate it 4.5 stars, though I'm being nice and probably should rate it 4. Oh and where is the 0 star rating, like "I had to versus myself to finish it."
     
  4. maxnugget

    maxnugget Avenger of evil and ignorance

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    Definitely an enjoyable movie. And, key word there being "movie," this thing really felt like a movie. My jaw dropped the first time Dracula slammed Batman's face into the ground. That looked PAINFUL.

    One thing I gotta comment on though, was it really necessary for Bruce to write down "Alucard" and hold it up to a mirror to confirm his suspicion that it was "Murder" backwards. Whoops, heh, I mean "Dracula" backwards? Seriously, Bruce is a smart guy, he friggin' built an ANTI-VAMPIRISM drug in the course of the episode, and yet he can't reverse seven letters in his head?

    I know, it's for dramatic effect, but still...
     
  5. jv2k

    jv2k Faster than the fat flash

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    He could, but he did that for alfred. Note he also reversed the letters when he drew it. Remember The Alfred isn't the smartest person out their.
     
  6. creativerealms

    creativerealms New Member

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    Yeah the Batman's Alfred is pretty dim.
     
  7. Style

    Style The Green Style Returns

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    Another patented "Review before I read the rest of the talkback"

    Not too much activity here. Not surprising, since many of the members here said they'd wait for the Saturday airing. So here's hoping this talkback will get more hopping then.

    Being The Batman's first DTV, and the first opportunity it's team has had to present Batman away from the censors. The BTAS DTVs represented some of that series' strongest stories. Does Dracuala do so as well?

    Well... Yes and No. Oh, believe me, There will be many cheering this film on, and rightfully so. It's very entertaining. There's thrills and chills, and high action abounds. It's gloriously violent, and bloody. Oh god, is it bloody. And if you'll forgive the cursing, (and you will, Vbulletin will edit it out anyway,) There is some seriously screwed up stuff going on in this film, that I'd stack next to Return of the Joker Uncut in terms of sheer disturbability.

    And if you thought that the Dracula concept was cheesy, you'll change your mind. The writers of this DTV don't shy away from the vampire concept. No Michael Morbious absorbing Plasma through his hands here. Dracula is about as Hard-core Vampire as would be allowed here. True, he's not allowed to really "kill" anyone, but what he does to them instead is potentially more chilling.

    What I can say about the film is, It's an excellent Batman horror film, accessible to children but still delivering on the chills. An excellent film just in time for Hallowween, and presumably aimed at the kids who have graduated from Scooby-Doo Hijinks and are ready for something quite a bit harder.

    But, here's the down side: I can't really say that it's much more than a "horror" film. You see, the Hallmark of the BTAS DTVs, (I'm neccissarily lumping Phantasm in there too, even though it wasn't a DTV per se,) is that they were significant events in the lives of those characters. Very deep things were explored, and they often contained key turning points for it's characters, From Batman too Mr. Freeze to the Joker, and on and on. And, when compared, "Dracula," doesn't.

    In that sense, it's a bit like Mystery of the Batwoman. A ripping good yarn, but nothing that significant happens. The real difference is that Batwoman used this approach to make a piece of pure fluff, and have fun with the characters. "Dracula" uses that opportunity to tell a dark and intense, (and at times disturbing) horror tale. Which one succeeds better might be idiosynchratic to the individual viewer.

    The frustrating thing thing is that it need not have been this way. It's clear the writers are trying to tell a story for Bruce, but they just don't know which one. There's a thread about Bruce being reticent about getting close to anyone after the trauma he experienced with his parents. There's a thread about his oath not to kill, and how he has to rationalize a way to destroy Dracula, even if it seems that he's betraying that oath. And there's a thread about him feeling partially responsible for the terror gripping Gotham, because his Batman persona is something of a diluted form of Dracula's persona. All of these are brought up, but none are really expanded on well, and I'd say only the second one was concluded.

    So, in the end, how does "Dracula" stack up? It's a ripping good yarn that most will enjoy. And it may even find it's way on to the annual play lists for Halloween flicks for many. But it will likely dissappoint those who were hoping for something on level with Mask of the Phantasm or Return of the Joker. Still, if you enjoy "The Batman" to any degree, I expect you will very much enjoy "The Batman vs. Dracula."

    That was done so that the kiddies at home could keep up. (Though, most of them have probably played Castlevania at one point or another, so they already are up on the 411.)

    Edit by Bird Boy: Watch the language.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2005
  8. maxnugget

    maxnugget Avenger of evil and ignorance

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    I know, I know, it's just...ergh.

    I guess the same could be said about Batman having to physically draw a smile on the photograph in MOTP to confirm his "suspicion" that the pictured mobster was Joker. But, hey I mean, it's a lot easier to manipulate words in your head than pictures.
     
  9. Bic

    Bic Acid-filled Twinkies!!!

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    The Batman Versus Dracula Movie

    Did I like it? Yes I did, as an episode. However, as a movie, I found it lacking.

    Let's get the basics out of the way, shall we:

    Pros:
    -Some really good voice acting.
    -The score was more 'orchestral' in nature.
    -Some nice character moments regarding Bruce and his past, espically when voiced by Vicky Vale.
    -A Vicky Vale that I like and enjoy, unlike in 'Batman'.
    -Nice animation in some areas.
    -Blood Bank fight scene. Dripping with major coolness.
    -Character design for Dracula as a man was fantastic. His cape and color scheme was just plain awesome.
    -2nd best designed character is the woman who's purse got snatched. The design was so good she felt out of place in the whole show, until she became a Lost One.
    -The story, while simple, was well presented and easy to follow for the intended audience.

    Cons:
    -Most of the 'slow motion' pans felt out of place. Then again, slow motion effects always look weird in animation for some odd reason.
    -The bad puns in the begining.
    -The voice for Dracula while adequete, had no presence and becuase of that it was hard to take him as a serious villian. His voice got lost under the distinct clear tones of the Joker, Penguin, Batman, Vicky Vale, the woman who's purse was snatched, the surfer waiter, etc.
    -The background music was too subdued, failing to give an approriate mood at times.
    -The movie was too digitally enhanced visually. Some of the scenes had that 'blury' feel that sometimes happens in the final digital processing/composting.
    -Undead were a little too flat. They needed more shading to sell the frightening feel of them.
    -Not much new in the storytelling choices, most of what we saw in the movie, was seen before in other movies or shows, so some of the 'chilling' or 'emotional' moments felt 'deja vu-ish'. The scene with the little girl was not as effective as it should of been due to this problem.

    All in all, this tried to be an action/horror movie, and while it has a lot of blood pumping action it still fell short of the mark in my eyes. One element to any good action movie, or any movie for that matter, is how the picture is shot and the scenes presented so the audience can be thrilled, amazed and/or moved by the what they see on the screen. A lot of that was missing through out.
    I believe the problem stems from the fact that action is always conveyed better widescreen. These are characters who are larger than life, there actions are also larger than life but constrained to the 4:3 format. We the audience, lose that scope. This is most evident in fights between Dracula and Batman.

    Plot: 4 out of 5 Twinkies
    Dialouge: 3.5 out of 5 Twinkies
    Voice Acting: 3.5 out of 5 Twinkies
    Music: 2 out of 5 Twinkies
    Direction: 3.5 out of 5 Twinkies
    Others: -1.5 Twinkies for lack of widescreen
    Overall: 3 out of 5 Twinkies

    This quick review was not intended to be so critical, but this is billed as a movie and I reviewed it as such. If this was a considered and OVA or a three part episode, then on those merits this would have gotten 4 out of 5 Twinkies from me.

    Two minor nitpicks: Why do the clothes the victims wear become pale when drained? Is it just me, or does the quick synopsis posted give away three major plot points?

    I hope any of that made sense... :sweat:
     
  10. Furious Nick

    Furious Nick Maniacal Final Boss

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    Joker + Bite from Dr. Alucard = Major Creepiness ......

    Over all I really enjoyed this dvd. Admittedly, I almost stoped watching it after the first fifteen minutes or so. It was not moving fast enough, nor was it truly engaging. After that initial impulse to stop watching passed, I really started to like it more and more. My favorite part was hands down the Joker-lost one vs. Batman, in the blood bank. I felt uneasy by that whole scene. I didn't think that a cartoon was even capable of making me want to vomit, but there it was (in a good way, I mean)! The joker is pretty funky on his own, but he was really insane here. That fight scene made up for everything else that I hated about this movie before. I would say that it is nice to see that the "the Batman" people are even capable of this level of darkness with thier property. I would recomend that you add this to your collection if you are a fan of the Superhero genre, and like cartoons. However, it is not even close to the DTVs from other creative teams (SZ, ROTJ, etc.), but still much better than MOTBW. I would give this a 4 of 5 overall.
     
  11. J-Ranger

    J-Ranger John Stewart

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    I saw half of it last night and the other half this morning. It was an alright movie, it would've been better as a three part The Batman episode. Essentially everything has been discussed or pointed out so I'll keep my review short. I give the movie a 4 for the action and the flashbacks to Wayne as a kid, otherwise the movie falls kinda flat. I went into this movie with high expectations because of all the hype around it.
     
  12. TheBlueHombre

    TheBlueHombre New Member

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    I refuse to watch this film for two reasons. Number one: vampire movies have given me horrific nightmares over the years and I don't need another one. The concept, though, is intriguing.

    Second, and the main reason I will not see this movie, is that Batman actually kills Dracula in the end. The Batman that I know would never allow himself to willfully kill anyone; not even a vampire. When I read about this ending, I was furious. There could have been some other way to end the picture without breaking one of Batman's cardinal rules.
     
  13. Skyknight

    Skyknight New Member

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    I enjoyed the film, after the dissapointments brought with the last Batman animated feature (MOTBW), this was a refreshing entry in the format, in particular, a chance also to see what The Batman team can do when theyre allowed to produce The Batman the way it should be maintained.

    I'm an on and off fan of The Batman, there was a time where I would either slam it throughly, or defend it dilligently when the hate became close to undeserving, I've found myself hating the series again because of many things, the abandonment of the loner concept, the introduction of Batgirl, blech.

    So this, being produced during the first two seasons, captures the very essecense of what the series should aspire to be, its' own sense of being, but with the sense to be as brooding, as challenging, as the comics that enforced its' creation. I am a fan of the Elseworlds Batman comic strips focusing on Dracula (and if you watch for the scene with the Bat Vamp, this is a direct homage in character design to the third graphic novel "Crimson Mist"), and so I had even more investment here.

    Dracula came off as Ra's Al Ghaul in design, not in character, design, which soured me a little, what would you rather see? A film about Dracula, or Ras' Al Ghaul? Then you have to realise, The Batman sparingly allows the comics to influence it, and here there lies its' appeal at times.

    Bat killing the undead, techincally, in our world of fiction, Dracula is more an inhuman force of nature that never truly dies completly, it can be argued his death here is a delay and not a defeat, how many times have we seen this play out? Audiences accustomed to Dracula truly should never accept any death in any medium as one that lasts, Buffy itself hilariously reflected on this

    The animation was stunning, and the best the series had produced up to this level, the intense direction, malice, and aura of the Vamp Joker, including some of the things that occur to him (electrocution), are definate signs they were not playing for the pacificer crowd. Vicki Vale was kind of wasted, she'd make a great asset to the series, hell, why not pick her as Batmans' new protaganist than fill her slot up with a cheap sidekick like Batgirl? Why demote The Batman to that level of petty child marketing when Yin was a much better character that made you worry about what may happen if Batman ever blurred or crossed the line, Vale is more than just a pretty dress, her contributions to the series would be more than welcome and give The Batman a prescense that would set it truly above the regular pandering that Kids WB are known to make with their audiences. Batgirl out, Vale in, and better treated than she is here, her character design was incredible, more so than Yins'

    When you watch this film, there are only minor complaints, and for someone often for or against The Batman on a revolving basis depending on the way the season or the decisions develop, that is a very good sign they have again done something right.
     
  14. BonyT

    BonyT Sisyphus in Hell

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    Hmm. Interesting objection. However ...
     
  15. TheBlueHombre

    TheBlueHombre New Member

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    I understand what is being discussed about how Dracula never can truly die (I totally believe that) and that he is more of a monster (personification of evil) than a human being. I've had those same thoughts about the conclusion to the movie.

    My concern is more with the Batman character himself making a moral decision to willfully and purposely kill a living being. This is something out of character for Batman, and there should have been a way to end the movie without Batman destroying Dracula. Punisher, from Marvel Comics, has no problems killing other people because of his personal credo. This is how Punisher's creators set it up from the start. Batman's creators set it up that he would never kill another being. It has been that way for almost seventy years.

    There were three issues of Batman & Detective Comics in the early 1980's where Batman and Robin turned into vampires. When the time came to eliminate the vampire and his sister, Batman gave the honors to a priest who had been trailing them for a long time. Batman would not kill them himself, but he didn't stop the priest from laying to rest the vampires. The priest saved the dynamic duo by giving them total blood transfusions which brought them back to human state.

    The DTV could have taken the same direction, but instead the animators chose to have Batman go against his own morals. This is not the Batman I know.
     
  16. Ruseri

    Ruseri New Member

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    his oath is not to "never kill any living being" ...it's very specific to humans. Batman would have no problem killing a creature (non-human) if it was entirely necessary. he even killed a couple crocodiles in TNBA in the Scarecrow episode. i know, he was under the influence of the "no fear" toxin, but still... i find nothing wrong with his decision to kill Dracula. he justifies it perfectly with the fact that Dracula isn't human... "he may walk like a man, but he's a monster."

    It was a necessary measure to take to keep humanity safe.
     
  17. Lord Sidious

    Lord Sidious Active Member

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    Question???



    Is this the Bruce Timm Batman voiced by Kevin Conroy??



    Or is this the New Batman in WB???
     
  18. Ruseri

    Ruseri New Member

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    I would think this should be obvious by now... but it's "the Batman," voiced by Rino Romano. NOT the Kevin Conroy Batman of the DCAU.
     
  19. maxnugget

    maxnugget Avenger of evil and ignorance

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    Batman does not kill people. Batman does not let people be killed. Batman would not let someone die if it's at all avoidable.

    But death is not always avoidable, even when you're as swift and clever as Batman.

    If it's unavoidable, TRULY unavoidable, Batman would kill. And, further, if Batman's in a climactic battle with Joker or Ra's or Dracula or anyone else, and his enemy happens to die in the fight (say, falling off a cliff or into a Lazarus pit), Batman regrets it, and moves on. Batman doesn't throw himself off a cliff or smash his Batcomputer to pieces ("His Silicon Soul") just because someone died in battle.

    I think sometimes Batman's oath to never kill (or let anyone else kill) is sometimes confused with the much-more-extreme position of being completely murder-averse, almost as if Batman's so intolerant of the concept of death that if anyone were ever murdered on his watch he wouldn't know what to do or how to cope with that. Batman's intimately familiar with the concept of loss. And he's BATMAN, he spends night after night lurking the alleys and interacting with the criminal underworld, he sees murders all the time I'm sure.

    Batman's also very decisive and practical: if he deduced that a given situation had only two possible outcomes -- A) He lets Dracula kill him and in turn murder everyone in Gotham, or B) He kills Dracula, but saves the lives of everyone in Gotham, Batman wouldn't go into a tizzy and be all "ugh I don't know what to do both options suck!"...he'd choose option A, say "has to be done," and not look back.

    There's a long list of villains from BTAS/TNBA/BB who either died directly as a result of Batman's interactions with them, or miraculously survived despite Batman leaving them for dead (Clayface in "Mudslide," Joker in "Mad Love," and "Laughing Fish," it's a long list...)

    Of course, how this concept of "accidental Batman-induced death" applies to the good guys, is a whole different can of worms, and was fascinatingly played out in "I am the Night," "Over the Edge," and "Return of the Joker." In "I am the Night," for example, Jim Gordon would still have been fighting crime and taking those associated risks even without Batman being around, but on the other hand Batman did specifically let Gordon down, which indrectly resulted in the shooting. Would Batman have been able to live with himself if Gordon had actually died?

    Ultimately it's a bit odd that Batman is seemingly so uncomfortable with his role as masked vigilante, that he is able to justify it ONLY so long as nobody else is hurt or adversely affected by his doing so. It's a somewhat curious position to take, as it seems to imply a certain guilt or moral uncertainty over whether or not being Batman can be morally justified, which is interesting since the only significant moral opposition to the idea of a vigilante comes from "the law," and aside from a few IMHO out-of-character quotes ("A Bullot for Bullock"), I don't think Batman has any particular allegiance to the law -- certainly not an allegiance that is of higher importance than his personal vows...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2005
  20. ouvi_dizer

    ouvi_dizer New Member

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    3/5

    To be honest this was a disapointment...

    I like TB, love the drawing mainly.

    The first and second season of The Batman here great, this third one is not as good, but i had high expectation for this movie.

    To slow paced, very little mistery (or none at all), some good fight sceens.

    They could choose another caracter to "kill", the one they choose didnt made any kind of suspense....

    If B:TAS - MOTB was the worst movie for B:TAS, it is still way better than this one, at least plotwise.

    This one is to mutch "Kid oriented", and think of kid as 12 or less.

    Still, was nice to see Vicky Vale, would be nice if they continued that caracter on the series, but i doubt it.
     

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