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"The Amazing Spider-Man 2" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, May 2, 2014.

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Rate and Comment on this Movie!

  1. *****

    9.1%
  2. ****1/2

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  3. ****

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  4. ***1/2

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  5. ***

    9.1%
  6. **1/2

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  7. **

    27.3%
  8. *1/2

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  1. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice if they reissue the film next month or so with the original After Credit scene.
     
  2. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    The Daily Bugle viral posits the existence of Miles Warren over at Empire State. And OsCorp is the evil factory. Gustav only saved Norman's head. The possibilities are numerous. If they figured out how to clone Norman a new body without the genetic disorder (and transfer his memories), that would be an interesting departure from the comics. Does the public know he's dead at this point? If he does, wonder if he'll operate from behind the curtain or reveal himself with some cover story. Probably the former.
     
  3. Ahiru-kun

    Ahiru-kun Active Member

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    There's no point in talking about the story or the villains since they're barely present, so I'll address what a lot of people consider to be the saving grace of this movie, the two leads.

    I rewatched the first Amazing Spider-Man, and the end of that film put a terrible thought in my head that the sequel confirmed. Peter Parker in these movies is a selfish, irresponsible creep. He breaks a promise he made to a dying man. He thoughtlessly uses his powers in public. He stalks Gwen and is willing to go to London with her and abandon New York. Finally, we seem him give up being Spider-Man for about half a year only to conveniently become motivated again just as the city is being terrorized by the Rhino. Marc Webb and the screenwriters clearly have no understanding of the character. It lost me when I saw him kiss Gwen on stage. Peter Parker would never do that, nor should he. He's not a guy who would do anything that would get him cheered by his peers. Peter is not Mr. Cool. He's a lovable loser.

    As for Gwen, she's beautiful and seemingly good at everything. There are no noticeable flaws to be found. They even make her smarter than Peter which doesn't make her look really intelligent so much as it makes Peter look dumb. He's supposed to be a science genius, yet all the science work we see him do is blow up a couple of batteries. Now the term Mary Sue gets thrown around, and I don't want to be Internet guy. So I'll be nice and call her a Magical Girlfriend. Either way, she had to be gotten rid of if that's how they were to continue to write her. It makes me wonder if that unnecessary Oxford plot was how they originally intended to write her out of the movies, but then they decided to kill her off because that's what happened in the comics, and it's what everyone expects.

    To sum up, this film is all about glamor. The filmmakers' mentality is, "Let's just have Spider-Man do some quips and be charming in his relationship with Gwen." They don't seem to interested in writing at coherent story with a clear message and giving the main characters actual conflicts.
     
  4. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    I think Wesley Morris (critic) summed it up best :

     
  5. ShadowStar

    ShadowStar Member

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    I haven't seen this movie yet, but I watched an interview with Marc Webb the other week where he said that the theme of the film is time and its inevitability. He mentioned that the first thing you see in the film is a clock and that they revisit that throughout the film (just going off my vague recollection of what he said). He did say that the film was about things catching up to Peter that were inevitable (like Gwen getting killed).

    I have to admit that I liked the sound of what he was talking about, but I still haven't been too hyped for this film, other than to see it adapt the death of Gwen Stacy. I plan on seeing it soon though.
     
  6. Vegard Aune

    Vegard Aune Member

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    Umm, did I just imagine the part where he was all "Okay listen Gwen, Imma go fight Electro now. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES follow me. No seriously, stay here. *webs Gwen to a car* Kay bye, see you when I've saved the day!"
    That does not sound like going above and beyond to make sure his girlfriend is killed.
     
  7. Miyamoto Musashi

    Miyamoto Musashi Law Enforcer

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    I had fun watching the movie, it didn't guarantee being movie of the year for me, but I certainly enjoyed it
    Spider-Man here is much stronger than he is in the first movie, and this is maybe a few months after he held the car under the bridge
     
  8. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    It's possible missed it. I fell asleep several times. :)

    But that was still too little, too late. She'd be alive if he just let her go to England.
     
  9. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    Sony wants to make as much money as possible?
     
  10. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    I rated it a B- on my blog. Electro was fine, getting an upgrade from being a generic guy in a costume. Rhino was a waste of space, and the bait & switch, teasing Rhino in trailers and commercials, and having him only get that stupid suit at the end of the movie was wrong. Green Goblin wasn't based on Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, but the writers seem to think he was. The armor was already there, along with the glider, but that makeup was hideous. Eeeeewww.

    Didn't mind the Days of Future Past teaser in the credits. Jennifer Lawrence looks great as Mystique.
     
  11. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

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    I see people hating on this for alot of different reasons, some are warranted, but are kinda highly subjective. I know a guy at my job hated that Peter cried and didn't think his acting was good there. I'm like laughing because I was more offended by Mickey Rourke crying in Expendables.

    It's stuff like that that some people can create a judgment on. I happen to agree this felt very much like Spider-Man 3, yet handled slightly better. I can feel the producers hand on this. If we didn't have them pushing Sinister Six on us, like they pushed Venom on us before, they would have had a better film.

    My fantasy version involves, Peter finding out more about the killer of Uncle Ben. Simply concentrating on Electro, who was a fine enough villain for this film. However, I personally feel they should have concentrated more on Harry and Norman than even having Electro at all. What they tried to do was give us their Dark Knight, who did have two + 1 1/2 villains in Joker, Two Face and a cameo in Scarecrow. However that was Christopher Nolan doing the film who has more experience. Not taking away much from Webb, but he had too much on his plate and the cook (writers) did prepare it well enough.
     
  12. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    With Marvel Studios currently firing on all thrusters with their megabucks franchise and Fox bringing back the one director who ever made the X-Men franchise worth a damn in a desperate attempt to dig it out of of the hole it's buried itself in the last decade, Sony tosses its hat back into the superhero ring with The Amazing Spider-Man 2. And all I can say is, wow, do I miss Sam Raimi. The film picks up after its predecessor, with Peter Parker and Gwen Stacy graduating from high school while Peter continues his work as New York City's web-swinging hero. Clearly intent on starting a franchise, the film leaves way too many ideas open while failing to bring satisfying resolution to many of the ones it does. But through it all, they're machinations in a much larger plan. I think. The film's narrative is so confused, full of plot threads left dangling for sequels, and overloaded with information and exposition, that even when it's possible to keep track of it, it's still nonsensical.

    Webb's first film, though a step up from the mess Arad made of Raimi's last outing, still hardly felt like a franchise reboot that reinvented the wheel or even did much you couldn't see anywhere else. In spite of a promising new cast, the whole film felt stale, frequently silly, and didn't even feel promising. Subscribing firmly to the "more is better" approach, the second film is jammed with enough plot for three films, and it shows. Garfield and Stone make for a cute, highly likeable central couple, with the real-life romance bleeding into the film for a terrific chemistry and their attempts to make the central characters worth caring about. Elsewhere, Jamie Foxx does what he can with his poorly-written role, Sally Field continues to impress with her strong chops, Chris Cooper makes the most of a creepy cameo, and Dane DeHaan is disappointing as the new scheming Harry Osbourne. Occasionally they're successful, but unfortunately, they're stuck in such a massive crossfire that it's hard to find the film's beating heart, as the film overloads with too many climaxes and chaos.

    Webb proves himself a capable enough director of actors, handling the film's teen angst elements and the sitcom-style banter with a nice zip. Garfield himself adds the quips and sarcasm which were missing from Raimi's films, but it's the action sequences where he stumbles. Overloading on CG that looks disappointingly like a video game and feels weightless and without impact, the films set pieces, though hugely expensive looking, rarely feel like much is at stake. Conceptually, the idea of a flesh-and-blood hero facing off a disembodied villain is a fascinating idea. But it would take a director with the sensibility to find some way of making the idea cinematically innovative, and sadly, Webb isn't up to the task. The result are many set pieces which, in spite of a degree of investment because of the talented cast, simply feel like sound and fury and little else, rarely suspenseful or exciting. And Spider-Man ability absorb and extraordinary amount of punishment seem to really stretch credibility. Webb's frequent use of Matrix-style bullet-time effects, outdated by at lest 2001, also frequently grow tiresome. It's one thing not to reinvent the wheel with set pieces, but most of these feel by-the-numbers and sometimes even dull. When endangering a key character, Webb finally manages to milk suspense out of the scene, but even here, too many CG pieces in motion make a scene with a clear emotional center feel cluttered and frantic.

    Foxx is a fine actor, but TV-bred scribes Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci do little to invest in the character, giving him a wholly inane backstory, and overloading the film with illogical plot twists. His character doesn't come across as sympathetic so much as nonsensical, not so much caricatured as frankly perplexing. Perhaps there's a way to execute a supervillain inverse of the hero with an inferiority complex who's ultimate power drives him megalomaniacal, but frankly, Chronicle did a much better job in much less time. As the movie finally reaches what feels like a narrative climax after the exhausting power-plant showdown, there's still more to go. The personal stakes for the characters aren't enough for the screenwriters, so the film endangers not only the entire city, but a whole sky full of airplanes as well. Is our emotional investment in the characters not enough to fuel an action scene? Apparently not. At this point, when the film drops into the territory of a notorious comic-book plot beat, the sequence, well-performed by the cast, has enough emotional heft to work, but doesn't feel enough like the culmination of the film's jumbled thematic arcs. Espionage subplots involving Peter's father and their implications likely to shockwave into future installments serve to do little besides further complicate an already convoluted plot, proving once again that the surest way to sink a superhero film is the dreaded "too many villains" syndrome. Add to this boardroom drama at Oscorp, a secret underground lair full of superweapons, an evil facility to experiment on supervillains run by a mad scientist who's Nazi caricature was outdated before I was born, and some soap-opera style "will-they-won't-they" from Peter and Gwen, which too often feels like teenage angst rather than genuine concern for her safety, and you're left with a film which flails around, never sure of what it wants to be about or how to tell a story. It opens up a handful interesting character arcs, but disappointingly, much like its predecessor, the film doesn't even have the strength of its convictions to wait for the sequel to explore them and let the film end on a not that's at least somewhat thematically satisfying. The coda afterwards, which could've formed the narrative nucleus of the entire third film, further adds to an already overstuffed narrative making the movie feel even more overlong.

    In the end, there isn't a good film struggling to get out of The Amazing Spider-Man 2, there are individual elements which would work much better in other hands. Webb is competent, but doesn't have Raimi's kinetic flair, the screenplay is jammed with plot holes and overwrought, hysterical-pitch action which eventually grows wearing, and the film's cast feel like they belong in a much better film. The film, in the end, feels like a placeholder at best, a movie with a psychotically huge budget which ultimately does little that's new or even surprising, feeling at best like a second-tier superhero movie, and its loftier retentions make it feel all the more bloated. Ambition is admirable, but start with a story worth telling and built the franchise off of that, not vice-avers. If Sony want to compete with Marvel Studios, they're going to have to step up their game. Hell, if they want to improve upon the excellent first two film, they're still going in the wrong direction. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is way too much of mediocre thing, and if this is how one of pop culture's most iconic characters is going to be handled, then Sony either need to bring back Raimi, return the franchise to its owners, or simply walk away. I'd say better luck next time, but the omens aren't good.
     
  13. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    I think you hit the nail on the head in re.: writers. I don't think they did enough research, for one thing, and there were four guys credited with writing this film, two of whom were also EP's. Too many chefs in the kitchen. Why they need that many people to put a script together when one person, doing an appropriate amount of research, could knock out a better story, I don't know.

    It could've been worse. You could've had Jeph Loeb writing this movie.
     
  14. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    This movie was pretty frustrating in my opinion. Full discloser: I'm a fan of the first two Raimi movies, and I was not a fan of the first Webb movie. I'll start with the good: the visuals. The shots of Spider-Man swinging across New York, especially the scenes at the opening, were stunning, the best web slinging we've seen in the entire franchise. The visuals as a whole were spectacular across the board. I though Electro looked great. Was the suit a little campy? Yeah, but it's Electro. Campiness is what makes him fun. Of course, the scenes with Peter and Gwen were fantastic. I can't deny the two have incredible chemistry, Actually, the two of them were the highlight of the movie for me. They both gave great performances, and seeing Peter with someone else will be basically impossible. I liked Garfield fine in the first one, but this movie sold me on him as Peter. The scene where he's begging Gwen to wake up was heart breaking. (Although seriously, no CPR? I'm assuming Gwen or Peter had their cell phone, could he not have called 911?) Dane DeHaan was pretty good as well. The Goblin suit was a bit cheesy, but it grew on me. The Goblin suit doesn't translate to film at all, so I didn't mind this interpretation.

    Now, the rest of it. The script was easily the biggest problem. I knew what we were getting from Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, and they didn't surprise. I mentioned Garfield was great, but some of the dialogue they gave him was weak. The slight nerdiness from Peter Parker is gone. I viewed the scenes he had with Harry as Peter trying too hard to be cool. Also, I found myself siding with Harry at times. So Harry wants some of his blood to cure himself, and Peter refuses. Why? Okay, I get it, you're afraid it'll kill him if the blood is incompatible. Well, give a sample of blood and subject it to testing. Instead, Peter blows him off without offering him any possible solutions. Great friend. Instead, Peter says they need "A little more time." For what, you're doing nothing!

    The worst part of this movie is that they clearly haven't learned any lessons from the past two movies. They repeated Spider-Man 3's mistakes of cramming in too many villains. They had really been promoting Electro as the main villain, but that's not the case. You could have cut Electro from the movie entirely. On top of that you have the introduction of Smythe, Felicia and Rhino, and on top of that you have the death of Gwen Stacy. There's too much going on. I never liked Electro. I never felt any sympathy for him at all when I was clearly suppose to. Part of that is the writing, but Jamie Foxx didn't help. Yeah he's a great actor, but he was very annoying in this movie, even before he becomes Electro. The character was just creepy beforehand, and I found myself not caring in later scenes. And is it me or does he turn on Spider-Man way too easily? As for not learning from TASM, I was shocked to see them repeat one of the worst plot devices in that movie, the phone message from Uncle Ben. You know, the one that was so obviously intended to be a goodbye and to inspire him after his death. Well this movie repeats that with Gwen's speech. The first time you hear the speech, you know she's going to die. I've graduated high school, I've heard a valedictorian speech, and that wasn't it. The whole "Promise me" line in there was the most contrived part by far. It's a shame, because it interrupts the beautifully done part of Peter's mourning at Gwen's grave throughout the seasons. And on that note, this movie had no clue how to end. They did the death and mourning scenes beautifully, and then they had no clue what was next. There were two endings that should have happened. One: end it at the graveyard. I know, kind of novel to end a Spider-Man movie on a downer note, but it would have been very brave of them, and I would have really liked that. Or, you could have ended it on Aunt May's speech. If you want to keep it somewhat hopeful, you could keep the shot of him going up to his room, opening his closet door and looking at the mask. I would have liked the next movie to begin with Peter not being Spider-Man, with him trying to put his own life back together. But no, we had to have the speech, we had to have him put the suit on again, and we need one more action scene. They should have known better than to put an action beat after Gwen's death. You did the whole thing very well, don't spoil it.

    And to address the controversy, I do wish Gwen hadn't died. She's so good as Gwen and the two had such great chemistry that seeing Peter with Mary Jane will be incredibly difficult, especially seeing how deeply Peter was in love with Gwen. The fact Garfield and Stone are a real life couple will make that even more difficult, especially for them. I do wish they left Gwen alive. Stone was so good and the relationship was so good, I don't see anything else being anything but a disappointment.

    Fairly long review, but I had plenty to say. I will say this: it's the first Spidey movie since 2007 I didn't see on opening day, and the only reason I saw it was because I felt obligated. I don't know if I'll see this next one, this movie didn't make me anticipate it all.
     
  15. Vegard Aune

    Vegard Aune Member

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    I think for me the biggest issue with the ending to this film is... everything following Electro's defeat would have been better saved for The Amazing Spider-Man 3. Framing the fight with Electro as the climax of the movie, only for the Goblin to show up immediately after that battle is won, kicking in what is clearly meant to be the film's true climax... it's just really awkwardly paced. And one gets the feeling that they tried to integrate the plots together and make Harry's transition to villainy work, but they just needed more time. More time to establish his and Peter's friendship (I mean, we got what, five minutes of them acting like friends?), more time to show his growing desperation to cure his disease, and so on and so forth... Of course they couldn't do that because the movie was already so crammed anyway. And then the last ten minutes are Peter fighting a supervillain who only just appeared, failing to save his girlfriend, being so heartbroken over this fact that he gives up being Spider-Man, until finally returning to action five months later just in time to save the city from the Rhino. Yay, Spider-Man is back!!... except we were given no time to even take in the fact that he was ever "gone" to begin with. And those last ten minutes? They could have made an entire 90-minute movie out of those plot-points alone! And really, they should have. Then maybe rather than rushing Harry into the role of Spidey's worst enemy in this movie, they could have just started him on that path near the end of this film (a la what Raimi did at the end of SM2) and had him not descend into full-fledged super-villain mode until around the midway point of the next film. And then, I dunno, have Spidey's triumphant return after months of absence be the climax of the story rather than a sequel-hook... Of course for that to work said return should probably be done as a rematch with the Goblin rather than him fighting some brute in a mecha who had like five minutes of screentime back at the start of the film. Though in this hypothetical third movie based entirely on what happens in the last ten minutes of this film, I suppose the ending with him fighting the Rhino could also still work in more or less the same fashion it does now, just as a way to underline after this hypothetical climax where he would fight the Goblin again that he is truly back to stay...

    You know, the more I think about this the more apparent it gets that the movie we got was really kinda terrible. And mind you, I liked the first Amazing Spider-Man movie.
     
  16. Mighty_Bojingo

    Mighty_Bojingo Your shoelaces shall be mine.

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    Is it just me, or does the Green Goblin show up just too many times in the movies? He appeared in Spiderman 1, Spiderman 3, probably amazing spiderman 1 (not sure on that), and showed up on amazing spiderman 2. I dont mind them rebooting it with new actors, but dont re-use the same villians over and over.
     
  17. Wonderwall

    Wonderwall Moderator
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    I never counted 3 as an appearance of Green Goblin, it was always just Harry to me. He did not show in ASM 1 so he hasn't shown up that many times. At least I don't feel he has.
     
  18. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    Finally got around to watching this movie last weekend. Posting before reading the thread so as not to prejudice my uncensored opinion...

    I thought it would've been better off focusing on smaller set of characters. The movie jumps around a little too much for my liking. Granted, there are only really two characters introduced that we should be concerned about, Electro and Harry, but I feel like screen time was spread too thin for me to be at all sympathetic or even understanding enough of either one.

    Speaking of Electro and lack of sympathy, I was vaguely reminded of Jim Carrey's Riddler: here's a guy everyone seems to ignore, and someone who had an idol who eventually disappointed him, so he went cuckoo or evil or both. His transformation from a stepped on guy to villain just felt lacking to me.

    Even though I thought this movie was pretty mediocre, there were aspects I did like. Gwen's death was handled pretty well. I was surprised that the movie studios were willing to push that envelope, but like every other Spider-man fan, it's not as though I didn't know what her fate was in the comic books. They made the death pretty dramatic, but not melodramatic, and it wasn't disgustingly gratuitous in any way. It was close enough to how it happened in the comics that it didn't feel like it came from the dreaded, proverbial left field. Also, I know there's been a lot of talk about Women in Refrigerators. Now, I should say off the bat that I am rarely comfortable with how that expression is used to describe events from comics, cartoons, and movies; I do believe that there are definite examples (see the Injustice comics), but also that a lot of times I think certain scenes get unfairly dumped into the WiR category. I don't believe Gwen's death in this movie qualifies, and if it does, I don't think it deserves all the negative connotations that often accompany WiR.

    Also, I like that the crowds depicted in the movie generally were pro-Spidey. I know that a lot of fans figure that if Spider-man isn't anguishing, it's not really Spider-man, but I am of the opinion that if a lot of people witness Spider-man's heroic feats, they're going to think he's pretty swell. You probably should argue that it was too silly that a lot of rampant destruction is going on while people calmly watch behind some barricades, be it police-made or other pre-existing, but my general feeling these days is that too many teen-oriented stories enable readers and watchers to wallow in the protagonists' misery, and that's not helpful for them, or enjoyable for me. I say bring on JJ Jameson's anti-Spider-man agenda, but there's something nice about seeing the crowds of people support him. They also did it well for comedic effect.

    I generally agree with the Rotten Tomato aggregate scores and reviews. Movie was flawed, but it has enjoyable things, too.
     
  19. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is set for a Digital HD release on August 5th before arriving on Blu-ray and DVD on August 19th. Information, including bonues feature details - such as deleted scenes and featurettes, are up exclusively on EW.com
     
  20. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I figured the deleted scenes would be the grabber. From the first movie I was skeptical Peter's parents were really dead but after ASM 2... I'm less skeptical. Could be another video. Robot. The Chameleon.
     

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