The 2000's Hate Really Needs To Stop

Discussion in 'The toonzone - General Animation Discussion' started by Dell Boy, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    122
    OK.

    I apologise for misreading your quote but I snipped your argument because I didn't want to split them into several quotes to explain my points.

    It isn't just because of the quality. It's also because there weren't a lot of good shows from that decade.

    Well, I apologise for that remark.

    I thought it applied to other countries as well.

    I don't think most people would consider the Aristocats a forgotten and mediocre Disney film.

    That fact I know and Disney wouldn't recover until the late Eighties, which started the Disney Renaissance.

    I see.

    Okay.

    Other good shows include Sym-Bionic Titan, Young Justice and ThunderCats 2011.

    Yes but this decade, we've seen several bad stuff like Teen Titans Go!, Breadwinners, the post-EMH Marvel animated shows (though debatable), The Powerpuff Girls 2016, Ben 10: Omniverse, Ben 10 2016, Fanboy and Chum-Chum (though it began in 2009), Scaredy Squirrel, The Day My Butt Went Psycho and others I don't need to list.

    Well, this decade has been better for animated films than animated shows IMO.

    That's not even a very nice thing to say.

    No, you went too far as well and why did you follow me in the first place if you continue saying stuff like that.

    Don't you think you went too harsh on your comments? I'll say this, to me, the word "worst" means it's either awful, terrible, horrible or bad, not because it's of weak quality.

    And NO, I will not do the list because you want me to fail and I will not allow it. If you think I lost, then you lost when this argument became an insult towards me for my critical research failure on your argument.

    This has gone off-topic since this thread is about the NOUGHTIES, not the Seventies and I had enough of this.

    I say good day to you and this conversation is over by me.

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
  2. Toon4Thought

    Toon4Thought Giving a slightly closer look.

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    2,963
    Likes Received:
    623
    Well, the way I understand it, it is generally viewed as an era that largely played it safe, with most of the shows and movies that come to mind being either forgettable or otherwise mediocre in various ways.. That being said, every era is like that to one extent or another when you get down to it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    324
    Well that's kind of the same thing though, right? If there aren't a lot of good shows then that means there is a low quality to the TV animation of that era. Since there were only a couple of shows that were seen as good and the rest weren't. That is what low quality means.

    Considering everyone has been listing primarily American examples of animation and talking about specific points of the US history when they are talking about the animation quality of a decade on this thread, no we aren't really applying this to other countries. Who I'm sure had different peaks and valleys of animation but that's not the discussion here.

    I've seen a lot of reviews online of the movie when talking about Disney movies overall throughout history and that is the general consensus. I'm sure there are some people who are fans of the film but that seems like a minority opinion not a majority one.

    Well that's admitting that was a weak period for Disney Animation then isn't it? And yeah Disney wouldn't fully recover until the late 80's but the 80's was also the first decade where Disney actually had some true film competition with Don Bluth who had Secret of Nimh, Land Before Time, An American Tail and All Dogs Go To Heaven. So there were other quality animated films to balance out Disney's weakness something the 70's did not really have with any mainstream films.

    Oh yeah I agree there are terrible/bad animated shows from this decade. No period is going to be perfect and there are a ton of bad animated movies from this decade as well. Alpha and Omega; Gnemo And Juliet; Mars Needs Moms; Hoodwinked Too: Hood Vs Evil; Cars 2; The Lorax; Ice Age 4 and 5; Escape From Planet Earth; the Planes films; Free Birds; Walking With Dinosaurs; The Nut Job; Legend of Oz: Dorothy's Return; Strange Magic; Home; The Good Dinosaur; Norm Of the North; Ratchet and Clank; The Wild Life; Rock Dog: Spark A Space Tail. All considered pretty horrible movies. However as I pointed out there are plenty of really well loved and well done and high quality TV shows and movies to balance out the terrible animation of this period. There isn't that balance in the 70's when you had only a handful of solid animation and the rest was mediocre at best to terrible so again, that's why this decade is much better for animation then the 70's.

    It's not a very nice thing to say "I want proof that the 70's AREN'T the worst era for animation by naming a large amount of projects from that period that are actually good to show the 70's is of as high quality of other decades?" Uh sorry man asking for proof isn't being mean. It's asking for a reason to continue this discussion because if you can't name any examples then that means you don't have an argument. Ergo there is no more to this discussion.


    I don't "unfollow" anyone here and what do you mean "continue saying stuff like that?" I pointed out you misquoted me which you even admitted to and my doubts you could name projects but was open to you doing so which... you didn't. Which kind of proves you don't really have an argument other then... you really believe this thing you can't objectively counter but still refuse to admit you're wrong about.


    Well that's not the official definition of worst especially in this context. Worst decade means it has the lowest quality of animation that took place in it, which it does. I'm sorry your definition of worst isn't the actual definition but... that's really YOUR fault honestly.


    Again the point of doing the list was to show there was actually a lot of really good animation from the 70's so the decade would not be considered the worst. The fact you didn't do that kind of says to me you know it's the worst and can't find examples to prove me wrong but don't want to admit the truth. Seriously who wins a debate by going "you insulted me even though you didn't so that means you loose and I win even though I can't prove my point whatsoever."


    Yeah my original post in this thread was about the 2000's and pointing out my thoughts on it and I will continue to do so. You still haven't offered any further discussion about that and have honestly just admitted defeat. So yeah 70's are the worst period of animation which we all either agree on or can't argue against. So moving more on topic since I can still do that...

    No every era is honestly different in how they present and focus on their series and movies and the mistakes/successes that come from that era. The 2000's is no different. Film wise with the release of Shrek and Ice Age, studios had shown just how popular slightly more edgy PG fare CG animation had become over the G hand drawn animation that had been Disney's bread and butter and thus there were a flood of studios trying to get off the ground to release their own CG flicks and shutting down most hand drawn animation. Even Disney who had a lot of failure with their 2D hand drawn animation in the 2000's (with Atlantis and Treasure Planet and Brother Bear and Home On The Range not really making any sort of profit and getting mixed at best reviews) shut down their 2D department and try for CG movies with at best middling success and honestly Disney wouldn't really have another hit movie wise (with both critics and box office) until Tangled in 2010 which also changed how they would market and release their movies. In the meantime though they released stuff like Chicken Little or lesser known projects like Meet the Robinsons or even Princess And The Frog which really didn't get them much notice and acclaim. And though Dreamworks had a fair amount of success in that period with the Shrek movies and Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar, they were still pretty hit and miss and stuff like Over The Hedge and Shark Tale stained a lot of their reputation through the "aughties".

    Television wise for animated series, honestly the first half of the 2000's was pretty solid. There were a bevvy of successful new and popular shows and hits that delighted both older and newer fans of animation alike. After the mid 2000's though the hits and successes became much more sporadic. I mean with Nickelodeon after Avatar The Last Airbender what was the next super successful and well loved Nicktoon? Nothing in the 2000's I'll tell you that. Cartoon Network hadn't really had a major hit after Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends as even Chowder and Flapjack were more minor successes with slight cult appeal but weren't really bringing people to the network at all thus why in 2009 CN tried launching a bunch of live aciton shows and not animated series which thankfully yeah never went anywhere and the network's reputation was saved in 2010 when Adventure Time and Regular Show went on to be big hits. Disney did have Phineas and Ferb but... not really anything else from that era and networks seemed to trying to outsource less and less to acquistions which led to less variety of shows overall. Honestly acquistion lacking is more a problem of THIS period then the 2000's but that's where it started. And though you had a couple successes like CN with Total Drama Island, it was pretty minor compared to what the network had previously.

    Again though the 2000's aren't the worst overall but there was a massive fall out period that did have a lack of shows and films to point to and enjoy from this period. Plus honestly on the internet there tends to be a backlash against everything when someone has a contrary opinion and then people trying to counter that opinion. So if you have one person saying the 2000's sucks and a few people coming on to defend that and then several people backing up the first one and etc, it does become an issue pretty quickly.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  4. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    122
    So? Does it even matter?

    Ergo, I wanted to move on from this discussion after my last comment, yet you still continued this conversation.

    No, it is not my fault actually and the definition for the word according to Dictionary.com: "bad or ill in the highest, greatest, or most extreme degree", therefore in my own opinion, it means it's bad.

    I think you should talk to someone who is an apologist for Seventies animation other than me. Try wonderfly instead.

    If I've already admitted defeat in this argument, then there's really no point into continuing this conversation.

    As I said in the last sentence of my previous comment, I'm done with this and had enough with it.

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
  5. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    324
    Yes because your previous post said "it isn't just because of the quality it's also because there weren't a lot of good shows in that decade" and I pointed out that means the same thing. So now you're saying you agree with that comment even though your previous post said you didn't?

    Uh you wanted to leave because you felt I was insulting you and said you were done with this conversation. Just because I responded back doesn't mean you had to. You could of just left as you said you were going to Adrenaline1996. I didn't force you to respond back or anything. You could of just ignored me if that's what YOU wanted to do but you responded to my response again so... that's on you man.

    You do realize the worst doesn't specifically mean bad it means as you said bad or ill to the most extreme degree. But sometimes that extreme degree may not be extreme. Like let's say a teacher had three students they were teaching. And overall one student's scores averaged to a 96, another to a 93, and the third averaged to a 90. Technically the student who averaged out to a 90 would be the worst of those students because that is the lowest grade but a 90 is still considered overall excellent and a solid A- and not something really seen as bad. Worst just means the least of something really that I am making the case with 70's animation compared to other decades and since you offer no real counter argument that means I am right in calling it worst.

    I already did that. Me pointing out the error in wonderfly's previous post is what got you to respond to me. wonderfly hasn't responded back so there's no need to talk to him about it but you did so that is why we're having this conversation.

    Except... you didn't admit defeat in the previous argument. You said " If you think I lost, then you lost when this argument became an insult towards me " and then I pointed out how I wasn't even insulting you. If you're admitting defeat now then okay my point stands: The 1970's is the worst decade for animation. Something Adrenaline1996 tried arguing but couldn't and then admitted I was right. So okay got that cleared up.


    Also more on topic to this actual thread the reason 2000's hate is also becoming more of a thing is since due to all the various cartoon shows that are being brought back from around that period (Samurai Jack, Powerpuff Girls, Teen Titans, Invader Zim etc) and people having this thing about being nostalgic over a period from 10-20 years before the one they're currently in, a lot of thought is being put into the 2000's for animation. For good and for bad as some feel is it getting overly praised and there are those who feel it is getting overly panned. It's a topic each side feels passionate about and thus when it's brought up it does cause a fair amount of debate for anyone who grew up in that era who thinks back fondly or poorly on that time.[/quote]
     
  6. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
    Reporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    15,771
    Likes Received:
    331
    Except 2000s brought JLU/JL. Also Avatar: The Last Airbender. Also Samurai Jack. I'm sure there were some lame shows. But IMHO can probably find pros and cons to animation in just about any decade.

    In terms of movies, Pixar probably reached its creative peak in this decade. Disney Animation Studios was probably still trying to find itself again and was in a slump, but Pixar was doing some of its best work yet in this decade. And probably DreamWorks Animation for that matter released some of its better films.

    Once again, I've never noticed any of this extreme hatred directed at a single decade.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. DomainMorph

    DomainMorph Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    3
    A lot of people (especially Mr Enter and his fans) consider your time to be be a dark age that should be forgotten, I disagree there were some good shows coming but, the true dark age was the 70s/early 90s. And yeah it does seem like a lot of the cartoons (the CN reboots, Clarence, Bunsen Is A Beast and the cupcoming Summer Camp Island) do seem to i very younger and don't get away with alot of adult jokes/themes as they used to in the 90s with shows such as Batman TAS, Rocko and Animaniacs or evern a few years back with the first few seasons of Adventure Time and Regular Show.
     
  8. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    122
    Look, after realising what I've become when I posted my comments in response, I apologise for them and I admit that I lost in this argument. Can't we just agree to disagree and move on from that?

    So, you're saying that the Eighties didn't have anything good in animation?

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    324
    Though the 70's has the least pro compared to con ratio though making it the weakest. And honestly there is always going to be decades that lean one way stronger then the other and I guess it's up to every person individually to determine how they're own pendulum swings but the successes and failures of each era can easily be searched through nowadays, thus why it seems especially easy to have people disagreeing and sharing differing views more then ever before.

    Okay 70's is obvious and I've pointed that out but... the early 90's aren't a dark age animation. In fact to many that's a new golden age of animation. That was the peak of the Disney Renissance with Beauty and the Beast/Aladdin/Lion King; the start of actual successful wide spread adult animation with the Simpson: the first serious and dark and loved action shows like Batman the Animated series and the begin of high peaks for Warner Brothers animation (with Tiny Toons Adventures) and Disney TV animation (With Chip And Dale Rescue Rangers/Talespin/Darkwing Duck); And we had the first Nicktoons with stuff like Ren and Stimpy and Rugrats proving popular without needing any sort of license or toy line to succeed and still be loved by kids; and many other things that were changing and evolving animation in the US to places it hadn't been before. Really the early 90's was by no means a dark age man so I don't know where you got that from.

    Well I can't change how you feel but since you admit I won my point still stands unchallenged. You can believe whatever you want but that doesn't make objective facts any less true so again.... 1970's are the worst decade of animation.

    No DomainMorph said the 70's and early 90's didn't have good animated material in it. If he meant the 80's he would of said "70's to the early 90's" not 70's/early 90's. But again his point is untrure as I proved so again 70's is the dark age. Some people also say the late 2000's is a dark age and it sort of is for animation but not nearly as much as the 70's were.
     
  10. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    122
    Hence, we can agree to disagree and sure it wasn't a good decade in animation, but does it matter if it is near-universally agreed that the Seventies was a dork age for western animation (I prefer using the term dork age than worst decade)? Of course it doesn't.

    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
    #50 AdrenalineRush1996, Apr 21, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  11. DomainMorph

    DomainMorph Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    3
    I meant early 80s not early 90s BTW this thread is going really off topic
     
  12. NewYorkEagle

    NewYorkEagle Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    10
    Even though he seems to be hypocritical when disliking the 2000s animation-wise, since he did like shows like Samurai Jack, Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, Seasons 1-3 Spongebob (which was made in 1999-2004), and Codename: KND for examples. He just chosen shows that nobody has ever heard of until they watched his list (e.g. The Nutshack).
     
  13. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    324
    Well it does matter if we're trying to specify what was the weakest decade of animation and trying to clarify the correct answer. You don't have to say it's the worst if you don't want to but that is the case and since I don't have the same issue with the word worst like you do, I'm going to say it because that's the truth.

    Okay that makes more sense. Granted the early 80's is better then the 70's as some of the merchandise toy cartoons had come out at the time so there was a bit of action diversity (like He Man for instance) as well as some non Disney movies gaining success and notoriety (Secret of NIMH) but yeah the 80's took awhile to gain their own identity animation wise. That isn't always the case as the late 80's animation era was vastly different then the early 90's animation era but yeah I could see that not being true with the early 80's.

    Well I'm keeping it on topic since besides proving my point against AdrenalineRush1996's I'm also trying to focus on the point of the thread. Like for instance...


    Didn't that video Mr. Enter made about the worst cartoons of the 2000's start out by saying he felt the first half of the decades was actually really good and it was the later half that soured it and had so many issues compared to cartoons being made right now? In fact that's the same point he made in his Phineas and Ferb review: that Phineas and Ferb was one of the few really good cartoons of the LATER half of the 2000's as the first half was really solid but not so much the second half. Thus why people are sour on the decade. Plus technically that review is talking about all cartoons that relate to the decade and most of the picks are fairly well known since a lot of people know about the 4Kids One Piece and Shaggy and Scooby Doo Get a Clue and Loonatics and how horrible they are.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #53 Neo Ultra Mike, Apr 21, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  14. AdrenalineRush1996

    AdrenalineRush1996 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    122
    For future reference, just don't shorten my username as Adrenaline1996. AdrenalineRush1996 is fine but we can now move on from this part of the discussion.




    Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
     
  15. NewYorkEagle

    NewYorkEagle Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    10
    Well yeah, but he admitted that the decade wasn't really good within the animation industry. I felt like he had a strong hate with the 2000s, especially when he said "Thank god this decade is over". Heck, he even said that every decade has crap, including the 90s. But what I feel more concerned about is that he praises the 2010s in an unconditional level, to the point where he thinks that it's one of the best decades in cartoon history. While I will say that it's subjective, it just makes me feel like he only takes cartoons in a serious matter, since most cartoons from this decade were rather serious.
     
  16. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    Messages:
    16,653
    Likes Received:
    324
    Well yeah it's clear he didn't care for the later half but he isn't being hypocritical in disliking it as you said he was. Because he did say he liked the first half and didn't so much the second so there's a reason why isn't down on the full decade and can enjoy stuff like Samurai Jack and KND but still dislike the 2000's as a whole. Again was going more after you calling him hypocritical for that which he wasn't being.


    Which is... true for every kind of media honestly: there is going to be good quality products but there's also going to be trash of some kind. Some eras have more trash then others but there's nothing wrong with saying no era even the most beloved is perfect.

    Except that even he has said there are a lot of silly not really plot based cartoons he really enjoys. Like Ed Edd n Eddy, Rick and Morty (in the first season when they were going more for fun romps then silly stories) or even Amazing World of Gumball. Where again in the Gumball review he pointed out always wanting diversity and saying he feels there should be a balance between silly less plot based cartoons coming out and more serious plot based ones.

    Again if you dislike the guy you have all right to. He's just a critic with an opinion just again don't dislike someone for something they aren't even doing. That's what I have more an issue with.

    More on topic of "2000's hate" though... the topic of this thread does feel kind of preachy. If someone generally hates the period of animation and wants to talk about it they should have the right to without feeling like they're offending someone just because of they're opinion. It is wrong if they are purposley making something up about the period just to have an arguement or are being bitter and annoyed without any rationale behind it but if they have an actual argument we should be fine with hearing them out so this whole thread really should be called "I Don't Think 2000's Hate Should Really Be A Thing" IMHO.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. mqg96

    mqg96 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2014
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    21
    After all of what you've said, I want you to give me your thoughts on this and I'm sure you're aware, but as we all know, the first half of the 2000's are still the 2000's bottom line. When the majority of people hate on the 2000's for animation they tend to focus on the 2005-2009 part of it only and forget 2000-2004 even happened. Even if you compare the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's for animation, the 2000's would come in 2nd place in that category, yet people still consider it sooo bad? Even 2000's cartoons were totally higher quality with more variety than 80's cartoons as well. We've already agreed the 70's were the worst. I believe since the 90's was such a great decade for animation on television and in the movie industry, what happened is that as soon as the 2000's came everybody expected it to be just as good as the 90's or better, and it was a disappointment for those who grew up in the 90's therefore they were over exaggerating on how awful in the 2000's were, but if you analyze deep into it and compare all the decades the 2000's overall (2000-2009) totally beats the 80's for animation and it completely crushes the 70's, not even close.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #57 mqg96, Apr 25, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  18. UberHamster

    UberHamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    6
    The thing is that cartoons are targeted to children mostly and grown ups may not like the new generations of cartoons because of how different they were since the cartoons of their childhood. It happened before like the 80 and 90s, also with the 90s and early 2000s. Some 2000's cartoons aren't bad tbh but this happens with almost every new brand of cartoons.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. 90'sKid

    90'sKid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    94
    I remember back when Chalkzone came out hardcore Nicktoons fans HATED it, because it was "too kiddy" compared to the previous Nicktoons (with a lot of people saying it belonged on Nick Jr. not Nickelodeon). But nowadays most people tend to look back on the show fondly. I feel that, in a few years, some cartoons that are today hated for being "to kiddy" will be looked back apon with warm memories.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. NewYorkEagle

    NewYorkEagle Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    10
    I wish people (including the OP) know that. The 2000s weren't really the best, but they still had great cartoons (especially in the early-mid 2000s).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum