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"Teen Titans: The Judas Contract" Animated Release Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Apr 4, 2017.

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"Teen Titans: The Judas Contract" - Discuss the animated movie and leave a rating!

  1. *****

    5.6%
  2. ****1/2

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  3. ****

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  4. ***1/2

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  5. ***

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  6. **1/2

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  7. **

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  8. *1/2

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  9. *

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  10. 1/2

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  1. Gabs Sama

    Gabs Sama Member

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    Saw the film and I'll openly start by saying that I never read the comics. My only reference point is the Teen Titans animated series from the 2000s which I love tho not to the extent where I feel 'offended' by Teen Titans Go

    In any case, I've always found most of the D.C. Animated films to be either decent or mediocre. The God tier films usually are Batman centric. I did also like JL Trapped in Time (really hope they make a sequel)

    And sadly, I felt Judas Contract was a mixed bag. It had some fun great character chemistry, especially Starfire and Nightwing but I think the overall plot was unevenly paced and structured. Like I was wondering when Brother Blood would show up :p It also felt a bit slow for most of the movie which was between the opening and the final showdown.

    I wasn't a fan of Beast Boy. He felt obnoxious and something about him constantly trying to hit on her felt a bit uncomfortable, particularly that training scene with him wrappings himself around her body as a snake and suggesting they'd kiss after she repeatedly told him no. Maybe this happened in the comic too which would show how this wouldn't be seen as creepy for today's standard but it might just be me.

    Action was decent but I'll admit that I have seen so many animated action films and series that I'm hard to surprise. Animation wise, you can definitely see some unpolished areas where there's too little animation frames but for a Direct to video annual film, it's passable.

    I still prefer the TT animated series' take on this story. It felt more focused and I definitely felt more emotions when Terra had to face Beast Boy, Slade, and herself in the series. It also felt focused as opposed to Brother Blood's while subplot. Of course, the show has the advantage of developing arcs and characters longer than a film but regardless I still prefer the show's loose adaptation
     
  2. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this must be the worst DC animated movie yet, a billion subplots, ridiculous pandering only good thing I can say is at least Damian is barely in it this time.

    Also, Slade just walked away without fully checking if Dick is dead what a moron.

    Also how the heck is Kevin Smith even relevant in a universe with no crappy Superman movie for him to get kicked off of?
     
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    #42 Magmaster12, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  3. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    Actually I found this to be one of the better movies in the shared DC Universe continuity; of course you're mileage may vary (and does). Several characters get decent development and Damian shows some personal growth. The basic plot is interesting, just as it was in the original story.

    Of course there are flaws. Damian and Terra have been with the Teen Titans for a year, but we don't see any of that so we don't see Terra earning the team's trust. Deathstroke is very different here from his original characterization and background. The running time of under 90 minutes mean that it's hard to find places to let the story breathe. However, I still enjoyed this a lot.

    The introduction of Donna has me wondering if the next TT story being set up might be the meeting between the Teen Titans and the Titans of Myth. And my understanding is that the Jericho we see here may incorporate elements of both Joseph and Grant Wilson. I suspect that Slade was not killed, but escaped under the cover of the rock fall.
     
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    #43 Otaku-sempai, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  4. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Teen Titans: The Judas Contract was just okay. It's not bad, but not that great either. I've never read any Teen Titans comic books (other than the Marvel/DC crossover special with the X-Men), so I'm basing my opinion strictly on what's in the movie and not making any comparisons to the original Judas Contract storyline, but I suspect that what makes that comic story a classic favorite is what seems to be lacking in the film --- the character development of Terra.

    At least, not enough of it to make you care about her or be pained by her betrayal of the team.

    I understand this is just an animated film with a limited time on it, so not everything can be fleshed out as well as the superior Justice League animated series did when Hawkgirl was discovered to be a traitorous spy, but I actually felt if this movie focused more on Terra and her being a likable teammate, instead of someone that never quite fits in, and less on the weak jokes and sexual innuendos, they could have been more successful with making us care for her before they gave us the twist. Unfortunately, there are minutes wasted on nonsense that could have been better used to serve the actual plot. Shame, it's not awful, just... meh.

    I found its precursor Justice League vs. Teen Titans and the previous DC animated film, Justice League Dark both to be a lot better than Teen Titans: The Judas Contract.
     
  5. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Yeah, I've been meaning to go back and watch War again to take a look at some of those lines again. I think the bottom line is Batman don't socialize. But he keeps tabs. At worst maybe some of the lines were hyperbole. I don't think the continuity is that bad. Yikes.

    I only have 10 fingers so what were subplots #11 to a billion?

    That's more of a character trait of Slade, namely arrogance. It is amusing that is a bit of a recurring joke in this canon that no one who was with the League of Assassins took Grayson seriously and he ended up being a major thorn in their plans - kicked Damian's butt in their first meeting, led the charge to foil Talia's plan in Bad Blood, getting away from Deathstroke and sneaking into the Church of Blood here.

    Yeah, I was thinking ideally if Tucker and co. could, they'd probably would have done a TT movie between JLvsTT and TT:TJC to ingratiate Terra to the audience. Maybe even pepper in some implicit cues that hint at her being a double agent but still innocuous enough.

    Which scenes are you referring to, the downtime at the Tower?
     
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  6. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    Yeah, some of that. The opening with the early Titans seems unnecessary for this story, too. Some stuff with Jaime could have been cut down. The way Garfield acted after kissing Terra was way too long and silly -- first kiss or not (who would act like that in front of any girl?). I don't know... if something didn't serve the main point of the story, it should have been minimized. I think it all comes down to minutes and seconds, and I just felt like they could have tightened the script a bit more and focused on Terra in such a way that we not only sympathized, but actually LIKED her.
     
  7. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I interpreted that was two birds -- for the long term of the overall canon to continue the thread of the Titans' past that started with Dick's phone calls with Starfire that grew into comments in JLvsTT. I also think the Gordaninans and Blackfire will play a role in an upcoming movie. For the short term, it was for the fans and also to reveal how Robin and Starfire's relationship essentially started since they're going to the next step and moving in together in this movie.

    Yeah, this I would agree the most with you on. The movie does generally put a magnifying lens on the each Titans' personal arcs and how some have a family, some don't, some have a surrogate -- Beast Boy sums it up at the end in the interview. On the other hand, I would guess they're expanding on Jaime here since he had a smaller role in JLvsTT -- and in return Raven and Damian have smaller roles here since we know about their families... But a small part of me is suspicious they introduced some his cast here to seed things further along for his ongoing arc since in this canon, they still have no clue about the Scarab's real purpose nor the Reach but in the same vein they can't retread Young Justice: Invasion. But yeah, it could have been cut -- but the scene with Traci finding Jaime in the closet was hilarious, imo.

    True, I didn't think much of it until you pointed it out. I assumed the silliness of it was a nod to Teen Titans or Teen Titans Go!

    I know what you mean, but imo they did enough. Pity there wasn't a TT movie between this one and JLvsTT. And I think in general, we got 3 characters in a row that aren't rays of sunshine - Damian, Raven, and Terra - and aren't the typical characters that are automatically likeable (or sympathetic) in the way like Donna Troy hopefully will be.
     
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  8. Bat-Fan Beyond

    Bat-Fan Beyond Active Member

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    I actually love Damian as a character who seems to be unlikable to a lot of people. Sure, he's no ray of sunshine, but he is his father's son and that shows in his personality.
     
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  9. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Sam Liu revealed he and board artist Christina Sotta crafted the vignettes at the end. James Tucker was the one who suggesting introducing Titus, Damian's dog from the comics.
     
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  10. Shadow_X

    Shadow_X Gotham's Shadow

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    Hi!

    I really like this movie, maybe is because they are taking a break(a very small break :p ) with Batman and JL movies but I'm so glad that they are now exploring the Titans comics.

    Overall I believe these "New 52" films are getting better although Under The Red Hood and Flashpoint Paradox are still my favorites.

    BTW I don't know if this has been mention before, but did anyone notice the music that plays during the beach scene with Beast Boy and Terra, it reminded me so much to the Buffy and Angel Love Theme: "Close Your Eyes"

    Later...
     
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  11. tereuo

    tereuo Member

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    Just finished, Judas Contract and it's (very) good! I hated a big amount of that New52 films. This one was amazing.

    It captured everything from the comic and threw in a lot of the New52/Rebirth elements together. It was sentimental and new at the same time. It had changes, that I didn't care for but i felt the work of, Wolfman and Perez. If you haven't read, Judas Contract, I can't say much without giving key points away.

    For those who have read it, this will tug on you heart stings. It's not a carbon copy. Yet, I see, The Judas Contract. Agree or don't. I hated/loathed, Son of Batman, Batman vs Robin, Justice League: War, Justice League:Throne of Atlantis and haven't watched, Bad Blood. I liked, Justice League: Dark and really enjoyed, Justice League vs Teen Titans; but this film was...outstandingly phenomenal.

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

    Mod Note: Edited for Language.
     
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    #51 tereuo, Apr 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2017
  12. Greg91

    Greg91 Member
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    I thought Teen Titans: The Judas Contract was a really good movie. The biggest problem was probably what they changed from the original source, and that's only for some people who can't accept that it's not a direct adaptation. For me, the story was well-told, the characters were compelling, and the voice acting was great.

    Miguel Ferrer did an excellent job as Deathstroke as expected. I'm sad he left us just a few months ago, but his portrayal really returned the character to his comic counterpart after Son of Batman while still keeping continuity intact. Terra was a real nuisance and she was difficult to like. The fact that they revealed her betrayal so early took away from the reveal to a degree. Her moments in the second half of the movie made her more understandable though. I really enjoyed Brandon Soo Hoo's Beast Boy, who was so sweet and caring. His romance with Terra was brief, unfortunately, but it was enough to recognize Beast Boy's emotions for her.

    Jake T. Austin was, once again, pretty strong as Jaime Reyes/Blue Beetle and I enjoyed his family and volunteering story. Maria Canals-Barrera as his mom was some awesome casting. Kari Wahlgren and Sean Maher really sold Starfire and Nightwing's relationship well. I really liked seeing the two of them together, especially during an awesome flashback sequence with Beast Boy, Kid Flash, Speedy and Bumblebee!

    Since Raven and Robin had a major role in Justice League vs Teen Titans, I'm guessing the producers decided to reduce their roles here, but I felt that was unfortunate because they either felt less developed than the others (Raven) or out of the story really early (Robin). I still enjoyed what screen-time they had. Brother Blood didn't have as big of a role as the movie's trailer implied, but I felt he was there enough to understand his goal.

    Some of my small complaints:
    • The story felt too quick despite being one of the longest DC animated movies (it was so good, I wanted more)
    • Some scenes happened off screen like Starfire getting captured, Raven's fight with Terra, etc. I would've liked to see them, even if briefly to keep the running time in check.
    • Flashbacks like Jaime and Garfield getting trapped or Beast Boy digging out Terra from the ground could've just being show in chronological order and took away from the flow or emotions of those scenes
    Those minor issues aside, Teen Titans: The Judas Contract was a pretty great movie. It had a few little issues, but they did not take away from the film as a whole. I really enjoyed Frederik Wiedmann's score for the movie as well.
     
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    #52 Greg91, Apr 21, 2017
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  13. Otaku-sempai

    Otaku-sempai Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Terra's betrayal in the original story was foreshadowed several issues before the actual beginning of "The Judas Contract" (shown in NTT #34 where the team also throws Terra a surprise party for her sixteenth birthday, echoed by her first anniversary party in the movie).

    Part of me wishes that Terra was already dead when Gar finds her (as she was in the original story). Otherwise I'm left wondering why Raven doesn't at least try to heal her with her empathic abilities.
     
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    #53 Otaku-sempai, Apr 21, 2017
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  14. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    4/21: I asked Wiedmann for you and nope, he was only influenced by the story and visuals. Just a coincidence.

    4/22: Started looking through the old NTT TPB looking for references and homages...
    The Titans throw Terra a surprise party celebrating the 1 year anniversary of her joining the team.

    In the movie, Terra wears a pink nightie and some make-up later on.

    In movie, Terra tunnels a passage up to a H.I.V.E. base. Brother Blood's outfit appears in the end of the movie.

    Terra and Beast Boy kiss later in the movie at the beach of the island. Beast Boy turns into various animals. Starfire defeats Nightwing with her staff. Beast Boy and Terra's is pretty spot on. The part of Terra storming off is added. Cyborg's family conflict becomes Blue Beetle's in the movie, he's estranged from his parents and sister for 2 years.

    Deathstroke swings in is swiped. But Dick uses a grapnel to escape but Deathstroke cuts it and he falls into pile of trash. Dick hurts an arm/shoulder here but resets it after he loses Deathstroke by pretending to take a bullet. Starfire is given the present as well but the surge isn't shown. Blue Beetle is taken out with the electrified chair while reading the newspaper. Terra is shown having defeated Raven. Beast Boy went to a convention but pushes a button marked not to push and gassed so a bit of Wonder Girl's trap incorporated.

    The Enervator is an invention of the Church of Blood and it's Robin and Terra added to the Enervator with Starfire, Beast Boy, and Raven. Deathstroke's perv comment is kept. When Nightwing appears, he's in a follower's robe. Terra is in fact betrayed by Deathstroke. Beast Boy is shown digging Terra out and she seems him a last time then dies.

    4/23: Revisiting War
    No, Batman was known about in Gotham but the public wasn't sure what he was. The nation as a whole was skeptical he existed since Batman only operated in Gotham and the other 99% of the USA had no reason to believe the stories and reports.

    This is what happens in War:
    *Justice League: War started off in medias res with a "rash of terrifying abductions" (which were being conducted by Parademons) and the news report served to set up the tensions in Gotham City coming to a boil.
    *The Amber Alert about a kidnapped 3 year old makes it even worse and the footage of a 'flying figure' in connection with the abductions raises the suspicion
    *The anchor notes him as the "mysterious Batman"
    *Max, the child in the bus, imitates Batman who he thinks is a vampire.
    *Yes, Green Lantern and Flash was amazed Batman was a real person.
    *Batman and Green Lantern are attacked by Gotham P.D. helicopters.
    *Batman states the "world is afraid of us"

    People in Gotham vs People in the USA: Batman
    The hysteria over these kidnappings are what I think temporarily turned the people against costumed individuals. There were only so many people that can fly that the world knew about at the time. A report of a fast and flying kidnapper is published and people jump to conclusions and panic. Only people who fit that qualification in Gotham? Batman. Or people's perception of Batman. Before the events of the movie, they probably cared less about him. Certain people took advantage of the fervor to further their own agendas. Think of when Godfrey turned public opinion against the Justice League in "Eclipsed" on his talk show. Same thing. Batman operates as a vigilante. Gordon has worked with him in secret for over a decade. The Gotham police knew enough about Batman's existence to go after him. Basically the same status as Batman: The Animated Series/The Adventures of Batman & Robin/The New Batman Adventures. But the helicopters fired on him. Remember, it was mass hysteria about the kidnappings. The police likely felt political pressure to find a culprit or a patsy, whichever came first. And/or a combination of someone on the City Council or a District Attorney using the situation to his/her advantage - take down Batman and rise the ranks. Gordon likely stayed out of the increased manhunt, just like in Mask of the Phantasm. As Commissioner, he could do that but couldn't stop it from happening either.

    So do people in Gotham know about Batman or not?
    Yes, they know of Batman. But they don't know the full details about him. Batman is not a duly deputized hero like say in Batman '66 or Batman: The Brave and The Bold. He doesn't pose for photos or sign authographs. He doesn't have a website or a Twitter. He's a vigilante in a big city. Police know about him. Some people do - the ones he's saved and the one's he's punched out. People start talking about their sightings and stories they heard, like "Legends of the Dark Knight" in TNBA, and soon he's an urban myth like in some past animated portrayals. A mix of everyone's ideas and theories. The theory he's a vampire is even a classic idea from the comics.

    What about Robin and the Teen Titans?
    Also up to this point, Batman did not socialize much with regular people or other costumed individuals until much later into his career. Not in parades waiving at mooks. Again, in line with Batman: The Animated Series. If the world knew about Robin, why not Batman? Well, at the point of the flashback in Judas Contract, it's doubtful Robin advertised he was a sidekick of Batman. Like in the Teen Titans animated series. In his teens, trying to make a name for himself. Later, he tried a new codename and new costume. Then by Bad Blood, he moved to a new city. That's the difference between Batman and Robin/Nightwing. Batman was perfectly fine with working in the shadows and probably still would if he could have but things have changed. Robin/Nightwing was fine with the world knowing about him. He grew up in the circus spotlight as a performer.

    During the D.C. ceremony at the end, Superman noted "they think we're a team." Obviously, they weren't planning that ahead with the movies they were doing. Obviously, Superman was talking about how they worked together to beat Darkseid. But Superman's line fits in nicely with the Judas Contract flashback. Judas adds to Superman's line, pluses it. Looking back on War, heck, maybe some people remembered the Teen Titans and figured these guys were another team, too. And hey, these guys found the real bad guys, found the kidnapped people, and just saved the world -- 'they're okay in my book.'

    Does the continuity still hold up? Yes.

    And no, only 3 years have passed in-universe.

    *War started during when Daylight Savings Time has ended, determined by the difference between the Central and Eastern Standard Time timestamps which were one hour. This happens between early November to middle March. Victor's arc starts during High school football state finals which usually take place in late November. So one can deduce War starts in late November 2014.

    *Only a few weeks pass during Son of Batman and Throne of Atlantis since Corson stated on a podcast that only a few weeks pass between War and Throne. So they take place in December 2014-early 2015.

    *In Batman vs Robin, after Batman finds Dollmaker's body, he tells Robin he's been training him "after all these months". So it must be in 2015.

    * In interviews, director Jay Oliva has stated Batman: Bad Blood takes place a few months to half a year after Batman vs. Robin. So it's past winter and must be 2016.

    *In Judas Contract, they celebrate one year since Terra joined which was the end of Justice League vs. Teen Titans. So it's 2017. If that convention Beast Boy went to was a stand-in for NYCC, then October 2017.
     
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    #54 Yojimbo, Apr 21, 2017
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  15. LifeSucks

    LifeSucks New Member

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    I wish that scene never happened because it is giving me hope that she is not dead because she was miracously still alive and opened her eyes and if you look closely after she closed her eyes and a closeup of Gar's teary eye face, you see her streaming a tear down on her cheek

    Gar and Kevin never said she died, but spoke in past tense about her which can be hinting she is likely dead or no longer part of the team.

    So that maybe that is why Raven did not hurry? She can sense some life in here still? And how come Gar could dig her out easily in his human form where in the comics he had a hard time finding her due to the debris being much heavier that he needed to change in animal form and have superhuman strength from Wonder Girl in order to find her body.

    But alas, I am just going to say she is dead for now to play it safe.....hoping too much is bad.
     
    #55 LifeSucks, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
  16. Shadow_X

    Shadow_X Gotham's Shadow

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    Hi!

    Thank you so much for asking him that, I really like that beach scene and a big part of it is because of the music, I really hope we can get a CD release of his score!

    Once again Thank you :)

    Later...
     
  17. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    You're welcome and I hope so as well eventually.
     
  18. brickrrb2

    brickrrb2 Active Member

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    I can't stand that this Movies ignore Tim Drake completely and go for that little worm Damian and don't even touch Connor Kent and Cassie.

    To be honest I would enjoy Damian better if Jon Kent (Superman's son) was teamed up with him in these movies.

    Also

    If Damian's getting Raven (in any form) Then I say Jon get's the Wonder girl shown at the end
     
  19. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!!
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    My review of the movie is finally done, though the short version is that I enjoyed the movie while also feeling disappointed that it's just re-arranging the furniture of a classic story of an iconic comic series that managed to be both because they were breaking new ground character-wise and story-wise. The New Teen Titans were, well, new. The only pre-existing characters were Dick Grayson and Gar Logan/Beast Boy, but nobody remembered Gar Logan and they were pushing Dick Grayson into new territory by making him Nightwing. "The Judas Contract" was a surprise specifically because it knew what the audience expectations were and toyed with them mercilessly before shattering them. But by now, the animated Judas Contract is just a double-agent story with characters we're all well familiar with (with the exception of Damian Wayne/Robin, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the movie that feels too well-trod is also the one that he does the least in).
     
  20. Greg91

    Greg91 Member
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    That's interesting you say that, since some people were upset it wasn't a direct adaptation like Batman: Year One. A lot of people wanted it to be closer to the original comic, beat by beat. This version already had some changes like Cyborg and Grant Wilson's absence and the inclusion of Damian Wayne and Blue Beetle. If they made more changes, the hardcore fans might have been even more upset.
     

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