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Startrekman's Artwork

Discussion in 'The Drawing Board' started by Startrekman700, Oct 23, 2009.

  1. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    Ha ha! That's a very pertinent observation. Yeah, I can imagine that a well-drawn piece with sexual innuendo would be more unsettling than a five year-old's scribble of a penis. Don't imagine that I did this on purpose though; either that's my subconscious drawing it or it's your subconscious perceiving it. Oh, and that 'kid' in the Tiny Toons pic is me! :p

    I may reuse the term "crude, straightforward, fetishistic insanity" to describe Startrekman's art if you don't mind. He said he would endeavour to improve the flaws in his art, but the speech bubbles still look no better than before. Where's the outline, STM? I've told you about this already. You still don't have a proper comic font, the links between bubbles are blurry, the text is not centralized, the lack of space between the bubbles and words gives it a cramped appearence, and the broken english hurts my eyes. "Yourshas lasted so long"? "The cake ske cooks"? "We send slovve poems over the main at the plant"? Did you even read what you wrote before uploading? Oh, and Sonic's arms are the wrong colour.

    The picture above is no better. Backlit scenes are atmospheric, but there's more to a beautiful silhouette than just black and white. The characters are so poorly defined that I would never have guessed that was a Koopa unless you told me. And yet again the moon is not spherical! Is it really that hard to draw a perfect circle? I know I'm regressing back into my grumpy critic mood, but such a lack of progress makes my blood boil.
     
  2. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    Everyone says the moon in that pic looks lik and egg. I don't see how. I did use a circle tool and planted it straight into there.

    As for the comic text. Could you please direct me to a site which has some comic bubbles with outlines and some comic font for photoshop elements. I am using the defaults in there.

    And as for poorly defined. I would direct you to the comic at the bottom which inspired this one in the first place. You will see that the author did the same thing as I did. Used a shillouette which only outlined the characters shapes and not their features. This is used to create a romantic mood.
     
  3. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    I also create comics.


    [​IMG]

    Kyle and Niyax go to some new alien restaurant in Northwest DC and get caught by the Dominion.

    [​IMG]

    The reason they were caught is because Weyoun who stands in the shadows thinks they are federation spies. They are let go(Well they are too young to be spies.)



    (if your noticing, yes in the first comic, there is a spelling mistake. It isn't me, it is my text system in photoshop. I will admit it. When i find a better comic bubbling and text system, I will use it. I am trying to improve my comic skill)
     
  4. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    Hold the SHIFT key when drawing a circle to keep it perfectly proportioned. It also helps to hold the ALT key so that the circle expands from where you clicked.

    You can download a variety of comic fonts from Blambot.com. Download the font you like and move it to C:/Windows/Fonts to install. I like to use Letteromatic for dialogue, but that's just me. As for comic bubbles, you don't need to download those. As long as your bubbles are on a separate layer, just go to Edit=>Stroke to add a stroke to all visible pixels. BTW, never type white on yellow. I can barely read what's on the first panel.


    What comic? I think you forgot to post a link.
     
  5. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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  6. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    Backseat Flying

    [​IMG]


    and just in time for Valentine.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    Er... you shouldn't use a bad example as reference for your art, STM. That silhouette is no better than yours. :shrug:

    I see you have a proper comic font this time, which is good. But it's not anti-aliased, which is bad. When you have the Type tool selected, you should look at the toolbar above the image and switch the anti-aliasing method from None to Sharp. That will clean up your text. To the right of that, change the text alignment from left to center. You should also increase the horizontal spacing between letters; the words look squashed as they are. To do that, click the rightmost icon in the Type toolbar to bring up the Character panel. Look for the "AV" icon with a two-way horizontal arrow underneath and change the setting to around 50 points. If you don't see any immediate changes when you select these options, make sure your text is highlighted first. I can't be sure all of this is available in Photoshop Elements, which is why I said you should download Photoshop CS4.

    But that's just the technical side. You need to learn how to space your words aesthetically. For starters, your text is still much too close to the edges of the bubbles - even touching them at some points. Leave some room so that the dialogue don't look cramped. Also, you need to paragraph your text so that it matches the spherical shape of the bubbles. For example, your first speech bubble reads:

    Now Niyax,
    watch your
    altimer. Keep
    your
    thrust
    vector.


    The correct spacing should be:

    Now
    Niyax, watch
    your altimer. Keep
    your thrust
    vector.

    BTW, are you still using the Pencil to draw lines? They look awfully pixelated.​
     
  8. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    Thanks for the very excellent tips. Yes I am using pencil, you know very well what would happen if I use brush. The pencil in photoshop elements does not have anti-alias. I could increase the size or use another program like Corel to draw penciled lines, since it has anti-alias.
     
  9. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    oh yeah Glitcher, to see that small comic below Moonlight Make-Out in full-screen. You have to click on it.
     
  10. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    I know it's a little late but these were done for valentine's day

    [​IMG]

    A nice slow dance between alien, koopa and human teenagers.



    and after all that...alien sleep on top of human...
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    Something I finished today...The Koopas and the Simpsons defend the home against someone rummaging through the kitchen.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    Good gravy, STM! I can't chuffin' see the pictures when they're so dark! Considering you did the exact same thing with that picture of two cars on a near-invisible road, I noticed you have a severe problem colouring dark scenes. Besides, the nightclub isn't even supposed to be dark! There are spots above the floor, but they don't illuminate anything. They're just coloured blobs on the ceiling. Just because a scene is dimly lit does not mean the picture should be hard to see. Again, I refer you to this Simpsons Halloween pic:

    [​IMG]

    This is a night scene, but the characters are all brightly coloured and are easily recognisable. The only major change in shading between this and a daytime scene is that the shadows are starker to emphasize the jack-o-lantern's candles. You would do well to accentuate the contrast in similar pictures. And even if your pictures still turn out too dark, bring up the Levels menu with CTRL+L and slide the top-right arrow left until the lighting becomes acceptable. See the difference?:

    [​IMG]

    I see you finally have your speech bubbles corrected, but for some reason the Koopa's dialogue is still aligned left. Did you forget something?
     
    #52 Glitcher, Feb 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2010
  13. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    I have to say you are actually missing the point of dark scenes is that...They are dark. You're not supposed to see but very little unless they are lit by something from somewhere.

    Now the first scene, the dance floor. It's in a sparsely lit room where you can only make out the first characters and the rest are stocks.

    an example by DA user pouncerSD

    http://pouncersd.deviantart.com/art/Twilight-Prom-Night-85317300

    it may not be all the way dark but he has the same idea as mine. Only the main characters get seen and the secondary not. Also that it's sparsely lit.

    YOu also siad the second one is too dark. Well thats because its the middle of the night and there is only light from within the kitchen.


    This may not be of a kitchen but it's the same idea, you can only see things that are lit from a light source.

    [​IMG]



    Some would have a problem with the simpsons picture up above. For one, wher eis the light coming from. It's way to lit to be in the night. Second, why is it so easy to see them?

    and i have to critize you for being a little too nitpicky without doing a little research.
     
  14. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    I think you're the one missing the point, STM. ART ≠ REALITY! The colours in cartoons are more saturated, atmospheric and romantic. You cannot look at photos as reference for a palette for cartoon characters because you end painting pictures that are underlit or desaturated. It's also a bad idea to paint a picture that has no illumination like the couch scene, because there's no light to define the characters. I'm astonished to hear there's a kitchen light in the last picture, because I don't see it at all. Even moonlight through the windows would offer more illumination than what you painted there. I don't know if your monitor has its brightness level jammed at 10'000%, but you're deluding yourself into seeing light in places where there is none. I also had to laugh at you comparing your disco scene to PouncerSD's, because his picture is blindingly better lit than yours. The characters in the foregroud could be standing in broad daylight and wouldn't look out of place. It doesn't sound realistic, but it's a key element in setting the correct lighting levels for a cartoon picture. In future, don't paint your pictures so dark, and don't dismiss the advice of someone who is trying to help.
     
  15. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    I think i will have to say once again, you miss the point. I appreciate and laud you are helping out which has improved my art technique. I think sometimes you don't see what a scene is supposed to invoke before you critize. The picture on the right defeats the purpose of what i was trying to do, which was invoke a romantic mood.

    The dance floor is SUPPOSED to be darkened to a point where you cannot make out the background people. Only the main characters are supposed to be sparsely seen. Did you go to your prom? Do you remember how darkened the dance floor was to invoke a romantic mood. Do you go to clubs. Sometimes they darken the dance floor to bring a romantic mood. Now tell me if you do, do you clearly see the background people clearly when your there? Do the people closest to you become more clear?

    Here's what I like for you to do. Google Image or go to DeviantArt and type in "Dark Scenes" "Night Scenes" or "Low Light Scenes" and really look at them. Don't go for the same types over and over. Look at different scenes? I think you need to move beyond your narrow standard of how someone's art is supposed to be and to look at others.
     
  16. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    I think I'm talking to the wall here. I'll say it again, nice and clear this time:


    ART ≠ REALITY!

    Every example you cited - proms, nightclubs, dark scenes - those are all photographs! They don't apply to cartoon pictures! You can't draw cartoon figures with a realistic palette any more than you can draw realistic figures with a cartoon palette. It's a conflict of styles! You need to adjust the lighting levels of your pics so that the scene is clearly visible, even in the darkest of conditions. But still, try and prove me wrong. If you can find a cartoon picture like your dance club that is as severely underlit, I will happily eat my words and run around Toonzone stark naked.
     
    #56 Glitcher, Mar 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2010
  17. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    What art school did you go to? I didn't go to one and I seem to know about setting a scene more than you do. Your SUPPOSED to study photographs for ideas on how to create scenes. Not to copy but to model scenes. Your SUPPOSED to use them as referenece. How do you think people create those good looking naked models. By memory, nope, they study references. You're supposed to study the scene for it's meaning and it's theme. The reason the drawing is darkened is that it's a romantic scene.

    I am not even aiming for realism. I am aiming for plausibility. I am aiming for the image that looks good but yet still conveys the idea.

    Maybe you need to turn up the gamma setting on your monitor. Most people can see the characters real well.
     
  18. Glitcher

    Glitcher Lord of the Thundercats

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    *groan* Since this argument obviously isn't going to be resolved simply by stating our opinions on the lighting levels, perhaps I can prove my point to you quantifiably. The graphs you see at the bottom of this image are called histograms and can be viewed in the Photoshop's Levels menu. They indicate the amount of dark and light pixels on the current layer, with dark pixels leaning towards the left side of the graph and light pixels leaning towards the right. A painting that has a balanced palette, regardless of lighting conditions, will show a complete graph from end to end:

    [​IMG]


    With that said, let's compare the histogram of your pic with that of the Simpsons Halloween:

    [​IMG]

    See! Your pic's histogram is completely squashed to the left side of the graph. Now do you believe me that the image is too dark? I'd like to see you back up your claim with some proof, not just an opinion. You believe to know more about lighting conditions than me, yet you admit you've never been to an art school in your life. I, on the other hand, have been to three, and I majored in sequential art at college in Belgium, so I sure as hell know what I'm talking about. You still fail to grasp the difference between art and reality if you think practicing still life at school helps you draw cartoon pictures! I also find your claim of "most people can see the characters real well" extremely dubious, considering not only have you received no other feedback to these pictures here, but no one has commented on them on your deviantArt account!

    Quite frankly STM, you're full of sh*t. You stubbornly maintain your point of view with incorrect references, the feedback for your DA gallery is deserted, and you're a thirty year-old man who draws like a child. Even simple tasks like making a perfect circle or drawing a straight wall are too challenging for you. You didn't even know how to create proper speech bubbles until I showed you how. If I am wrong, then why don't you go back to the way you made them before? I guess you're simply beyond help. The worst kind of artist is the one who fights criticism rather than learn from it. I'm done with this thread. If you need further advice on how to use Photoshop, look elsewhere, because you'll get no help from me.
     
  19. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
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    It's true that in art school, you're trained to observe from life.
    But you shouldn't emulate it to the letter. If you want to emphasize something in a dark place in a room, you use contrast, where the thing you point out is clearly visible, and it sticks out from the rest.
    Everything in that image is too dark so it doesn't work.
     
  20. Startrekman700

    Startrekman700 Active Member

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    You supposedly went to an art school in Belgium, you must have went to a sub-standard one. You have said you do no use a photograph as a model for your drawing. Damn you must have wasted some money like shnitz. Using a photograph as reference IS THE MOST BASIC TENANT of drawing. Who were your teachers, Mr Magoo? The one on the left used dancing references from photos.

    And those examples are so off the base it's laughable. Those ARE daytime pictures. You only succeeded in making a daytime picture look like a guldamn filtered shot. What i drew was a dark dance floor in a dark room sparsely lit. You only filtered a daytime pic. You only show your lacking in the dynamics of lighting and setting.




    Once again, I will say you must have wasted your tenure because you sure as hell don't grasp the concept of using a real life still pic to model a cartoon drawing. Not copy but draw the basic parts of it and add your ideas to it.

    Did you read the views. You do realize that just because people don't comment doesn't mean they didn't see it. You cannot control whether they like it or not. They did see it. This is an example of moving the goal posts. Switching from lighting to showing my view count on DA.

    This paragraph shows what a blasted twit you are. Using an ad homimen attack when you know I have shown you examples of how scenes are set. What is your standard of drawing if I draw like a f()kkin child. What's the age bracket? What the criteria of how an adult draws?

    Did William Hanna and Joseph Barbera drew like children? They didn't even go to art school! Most of their animations was flat and lacked perspective but they are universally loved around the world. Why is that? What was the standard by which they should have drawn? Does Matt Greoning draw like a chid? He also didn't go to art school. Some people trained in art would say the simpsons are crude and childish. Yet they are liked around the world? Why? What was the criteria for him to draw like an adult? Frankly, you saying I draw like a child screams of someone who has set up a wall of ignorance in spite of the fact I showed you pictures to prove my point.

    I have responed to your critizism by using your system of drawing art bubbles but when I showed proof of mood setting and lighting. You move the goal posts by asking me to find darkened club pictures. I could care less if your ass was done with this thread. You have shown yourself to be a complete idiot with no grasp of the basic tenents of setting and theme.
     

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