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[SPOILERS] The true "Big Bad" of "The Spectacular Spider-Man

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by GregX, Aug 9, 2009.

  1. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    Not to mention that the symbiote comes from space. John Jameson is an astronaut. It's the sort of thing any more cohesive re-telling would have done. Well, except for Bendis. It was as logical an approach for Semper as it was for Weisman.
     
  2. Mistah K88

    Mistah K88 Member

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    Outside of the Gobulin Green distortion, Harry's face never looked like the Goblin's at all... I suppose you are talking about his break down in Uncertainty Principle. I think he had a sinister smile and dilated pupils, but so did Tinkerer when he said "Or what" when threatened by Spider-Man.

    To be fair, all Norman did while unmaked was explain everything he did regarding his secret identitity. His "goofy persona" is pretty much having the ability to wisecrack and have witty remarks like Spider-Man, as his body movement isn't really manic like Joker's. Yeah there's him wearing a disguise over a costume, but you have to admit Norman is nuts. He doesn't act like it without his mask on and thinks he is in control but you have to admit, the whole concept of Goblin is whacked out in the head (playing dress up to become a crime boss). Of course there are going to be similarities between him and the Joker (purple and green, always smiling, etc...) but he's no "more campy Joker parody" If anything he's more like a mix of Batman and the Joker.
     
  3. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    For starters FF6 is a video game and completely different, storytelling wise, to a TV show. It pretty much has to wrap all its story elements and have a central villain for the heroes to fight in the end.

    And if you're looking for a "main villain" in season 1 then Tombstone isn't it. I mean after halfway through the season he's not the main villain he's just sort of there (sorry that's the best way I can describe it). When the Goblin attacks him he's more of Spidey's ally against the emerald elf than a main villain, and he didn't do anything in the Venom arc but accept job offers.

    If you're looking for a main focus in season 1 then it has to be Eddie Brock. We see his turn from friend to foe play out through the season. We see how he's not a stable guy, but one barely holding it together. And we see that anger growing into what creates Venom.

    I don't doubt that Norman was the main "big bad" of the series, especially in season 2, but Venom was the main focus in season 1. The Norman stuff was developed beside Eddie it’s just that the climax for the Norman story was at the end of season 2.
     
  4. AlgeaX

    AlgeaX Oh, hello?

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    Thing is central story-arc for the series doesn't have to just boil down overthrowing the Evil Overlord. Greg Weisman has mad it clear from the very beginning that this series would be about the education of Peter Parker, his growth and evolution as both a person and a hero. That's why all the episodes had titles drawn from various subjects, that why Greg wants the final episode to be Peter's high school graduation before moving on to college based DTVs. There's your "central storyline", there's your "driving force".

    I disagree, Norman's "How I Did It" speech is part of a time honored tradition of mystery fiction. It's really no different then the last chapter of an Agatha Christie novel when Hercule Poirot explains how he deduced the killer's identity.
     
  5. creativerealms

    creativerealms Active Member

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    The reason Norman walked off with a limp was because Spider-man went and said to him "I know your Norman Osborn." So while Norman did not know Harry was going to be there he knew Spider-man was going to show up at his house. If the Green Goblin had a Limp and Norman did not that would throw Spider-man off. Harry was an added bonus that made it look more convincing.
     
  6. Nemesis Wonder

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    Marn, methinks you're looking at the story largely at face value. "Beat the bad guy" doesn't have to be the goal of every story, and it clearly isn't the over arching goal or theme of this one. I don't get your logic at all (then again, given your other comments, how you suggest handling villains and plots and all that, it doesn't seem like you want good writing, you just want writing that follows certain conventions that you like to see...regardless of variety).
     
  7. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    Really, given how hard it would have been to replicate the hugl continuity of Secret Wars in a series, I think that Semper had a perfectly logical idea.
     
    #27 Hanshotfirst1138, Aug 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2009
  8. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    Yes, he did.
     
  9. Anwar

    Anwar Lord of the Vindaloovians

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    Plus, it was a nice homage to ASM #1 when Spidey saved John Jameson.
     
  10. AlgeaX

    AlgeaX Oh, hello?

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    Indeed, Semper figured out a clean, simple way of bring the symbiote into TAS without all the convolution of Secret Wars and then he... went ahead and did Secret Wars anyway? :confused:
     
  11. Stu

    Stu Marvel Animation Age Webmaster
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    That storyline was originally intended to rebond Spider-Man with his symbiote, but it got cut for time. I've read the outline - it sounds like it could've been a lot of fun.
     
  12. Gokou Ruri

    Gokou Ruri Wielder of the dark arts.

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    His face being 'Goblinfied' when he held the vial of Globulin Green was the 'exactly' part of I was referring to. His lapse into psychotic babble was just another point I felt like addressing.

    Video games are no different than TV shows when it comes to storytelling, other than the whole 'game' aspect. If you want a TV show example, then we could use Avatar or something.

    It's not exactly rare for antagonists to team up with the protagonists, just because they have a mutual enemy of the Green Goblin doesn't make him any less of a villain.

    Well, it's mainly the reason why I don't read the comics these shows are based off of. There's never going to be an actual ending, it's just companies milking mascots dry until the end of time. Animated adaptions allow for some discretion when it comes to storytelling, and sometimes leads to there being an actual story rather than just 'character's random happenings of the week'. I just liked how the first season seemed to be setting Big Man up as a main player, and ended with Spider-Man stopping Goblin and Venom, but Big Man was still, well, the big man that Spider-Man had to find a way to take down and couldn't just pummel him down like the rest of his foes. Then the second season aired and went a totally different direction with him being a background character to even people like Rhino and Doctor Octopus.
     
  13. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    While he was on a dangerous drug. Had nothing to do with him being the Green Goblin.

    If anything, considering that you bought into it hook, line and sinker, it's obvious that Norman's gambit (and Weisman's) was effective. But, it was a misdirection, and at the same time, Weisman and his team did play fair with the audience. Some of us figured it out from the get-go. The clues were all there.

    Considering just how different the formats, then yes, they are different when it comes to story telling. They are two entirely different mediums.

    The show didn't change it's direction. It just wasn't going in the direction you thought it was. Believe me, the show has it's direction. Weisman has gone on record that pretty early on, he had a general idea of where things would be by season five... and please don't say "if he is to be believed." I know him, he doesn't lie about his storytelling.

    It's not "Spider-Man beats the Big Man." It is "The Education of Peter Parker." This has been stated by the creators from the get go.

    I'd say I'm sorry the series isn't what you wanted it to be, but I love what the series is. This is Spider-Man.
     
  14. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    They're two different mediums so they do actually use different types of storytelling.

    If we take Avatar as an example then it took three seasons to tell a complete story that didn't even tie up all the loose ends. SSM hasn't gotten to tell its complete story yet.

    Also using Avatar to further the talk of main villains who was the "big bad" of Avatar? Firelord Ozai. But we only saw him at the end of season 1 (and that was only the back of his head), we only really saw him as a villain in season 3.

    Zuko looked to be the main villain in season 1, but that changed in season 2 and the end of season 1. Azula was the main villain in season 2 and then a secondary villain in season 3.

    So just because Tombstone looked to be the main villain in season 1 doesn't mean he is for the overall show.

    Yes but he wasn't portrayed as a main antagonist at the end of season 1. He had more of a side role than anything else.

    He was still a villain, just not the main one.
     
  15. Anwar

    Anwar Lord of the Vindaloovians

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    Tombstone going down as the Big Man didn't really surprise me, after all the Big Man was taken out fairly early into the run of the original comics. It's the reason why so many of the villains were vying for the position of total Ganglord for the next 20 years or so when Kingpin also failed at that.
     
  16. Mistah K88

    Mistah K88 Member

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    Actually it is VERY different, with a video game you have to tie up most to all of the story elements in that one game. You could say that for the game Super Mario Bros. Bowser was the main guy Mario and Luigi are trying to beat, and everything they do is towards that until they beat him. This isn't the same as a TV show, where the story doesn't have to be all wrapped up in a certain number of episodes.

    And as said before, this show hasn't got to tell it's full story yet. Also, the story of this series is moreso about Peter Parker growing up and into a man, Not Spider-Man vs Tombstone.
     
  17. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    To me, Tombstone being outed as the Big Man, and thus losing influence in the criminal underworld, is integral towards the "Education of Peter Parker" that is the overall theme of the series. As Capt. Stacy says, "Nature abhores a vacuum". The way I see it, Peter is learning that the more problems he solves, the more problems he creates as a result.
     
  18. Nygma

    Nygma Active Member

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    ^^^^^
    I like that interpretation Nightcrawler.

    On another note, I watched The Uncertainty Principle again not too long ago. And noticed all the pictures Tombs had with Mayor Waters. And considering this is a female version of the character from Spider-Man: Reign, I have a feeling that might of been some subtle early foreshadowing from Weisman;). Though I don't think we'll see something like Mayor Waters walking in on a vegetable drooling L Thompson Lincoln.
     
  19. GregX

    GregX Active Member

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    Because it amused me...


    Yes, I agree with him.
     
  20. Anwar

    Anwar Lord of the Vindaloovians

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    Goblins are supposed to be Tricksters, and the Joker hardly has the monopoly on cheerful psychos. Heck, when Goblin was being a total psycho Joker had been toned down to being a literal joke.
     

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