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"Sonic The Hedgehog" Comic Book Series Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Comic Book Culture' started by Cool Blue, Feb 14, 2004.

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  1. bwrosas

    bwrosas Member

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    Have tons to say, that I didn't get to share here over the past month, so here ya go
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    This is a review of issues 230 to 247.


    Now I will say this, as I opened and look through them, I will admit that I had an uneasy feeling when I saw Sally in her robot form, doing and saying things that were not of her character. Now I understand that in the story, she was not in control of her actions. But even still, I could not imagine her doing or saying those things. But again I understand that this was all done to develop her character even more than it had ever been, as well as opened the door for other characters to grab the spotlight and run with it.


    As far as Sally's sacrifice went. From what I saw and read, she and Nicole had basically no other option, and from how the scene was written, because she was given a second chance at life, she decided to give that back to the planet that she loves, and to her friends and family that she loves.


    As far as her being modified, one of the things I like to look for is the tiniest detail that one might overlook. You see for those that feel that Ian Flynn had the Doctor gut her and basically rebuild her from the ground up, let's just say that my theory on her having weaponized armor welded onto her body, I think can be backed up. You may ask how can it be backed up? Very simple, you see the tools that the Doctor was using, were measuring tools for her arms and her head, and from what I could see and tell, he was measuring her as if he was measuring her for an outfit or a dress. But then it is confirmed even more, when you look at issue 239 or 240, there is a splash panel on top of the other pages of Sally and Amy engaging each other in a fight. And when you look at this splash panel you see Sally's tail sticking out of her backside as if she's wearing a uniform or as I have said before armor. Now one may ask Well what about the laser Cannon in her head?, again look at the littlest detail, she had a connector connecting the laser Cannon to her brain inside, thus proving that there was no brain removal. Another way at proving this theory correct. Is why would Eggman modified a power ring, if he had literally taken her apart and rebuilt her, if he was worried about a regular power ring restoring her free will, he wouldn't.


    Now speaking of her free will, issues 237 and mostly 238 Prove to me that Ian Flynn had originally planned on climaxing this story arc at the 250th issue, because when you look at 238 and Sally's confrontation with Tails, you could see bits of Sally coming through, as she gave Tails an option that she did not have to give him if she was fully gone. And when you look at 239 or 240, she could have easily gone to her brother's hut first and foremost, but she saved it for last and when you look at the picture/panel of her looking out the window and saying target lost, you could almost see Sally breaking through because of the possible emotion of sadness seen on her face. Which again tells me that Ian Flynn had originally planned for Sally to regain her free will as the first step and then be restored in 250 as the final step. But unfortunately thanks to some behind-the-scenes shenanigans, plans were altered.


    Now I spoke earlier of characters grabbing the spotlight and running with it. Well what surprised me and I'm sure surprised a lot of you, was the fact that we had maybe four characters that you would never have thought of getting the spotlight. Let's take Isabella Mongoose, not only did she become the newest member of the Royal concile, but she was responsible for having that cabinet allow Nicole back into the city. Then we have the pink wolf twins (Lyteea and Lyco) not just getting the spotlight and running with it in 237 and 238, but also in the SU arc about the secret freedom fighters as well as in 240 and 241, and then we have Erma, who in 247 was the only one that could decipher what Silver was talking about, when he revealed Sally as being the traitor. Erma basically said that between Silver's future and their present, that the information might have been lost, and that historians in Silver's time or leading up to it, didn't know that the tratior was working against their will or that the possibility of turning flesh and blood beings into robots even existed. So I do give credit to Ian Flynn on not just giving characters that as many fans have pointed out needed more of the spotlight, but by giving characters we as fans never would have thought of getting the spotlight and having it given to them.


    Now as far as the characters acting out of character, I think Ian was trying to put a bit of a reality spin on the situation. In other words when you have so much emotional stress put on you, the last thing you need is for somebody to come out of nowhere and press the wrong emotional button that will set you off and make you act like you normally wouldn't. And that is why a lot of the characters were OOC in this story arc as some fans had pointed out and complained about.


    As far as Endangered Species go, in 243 you can see where Ian Flynn was going with it, but as soon as 244 came around you could also see what he had to alter due to the behind-the-scenes shenanigans that were taking place. And if you don't believe me, there is a fan out there that posted some pics of the original draft, picture drafts that is, of what was originally supposed to be drawn and take place.


    I will agree on one thing, the advertisements/adaptions based around sporting events and games could have waited or taking place at the appropriate time. Of course I'm talking about issue 242 and Universe issue 45. I agree those could have waited or could have been done at the appropriate times that they needed to be done.


    And as far as Worlds Collide goes, I believe you still could have done it, but have it done either in Universe and Mega man or wait until the original story arc that was supposed to climax in 250 is/was over.


    Now as far as the retcon goes, it seems Nicole will be the key in everyone except Sonic regaining their memories of the past timeline/past world, and it might even indicate that the events in 252 had occurred perhaps before the Endangered Species arc, which means down the line we may see certain characters returning.


    Overall, it has been one heck of a bumpy ride that will either continue to get more bumpier as we head into Countdown to Chaos or will start to smooth out and be a smoothed and enjoyable ride from here on in. We just have to wait and find out.


    And that is my review that I promised when this whole story arc began, I promised a review and this is it. Grade wise on this entire story arc, I give it a C+, because I know whither I get along with the guy or not or whither anybody else gets along with Ian or not, they have to admit that he did his damnedest. Despite the fact that there were many alterations and interruptions that had to be made and had taken place.


    End of review.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The SatAM Redesigns :





    Well, it looks like a portain of fans are not too happy with the SatAM Cast's Redesigns. I do see that some are cool with it, while others are Happy to see the characters back, just not happy with the redesigns. Then of course you have those that are not happy at all with SatAM cast coming back, because they believe it will steal the spotlight away from the game cast.


    Well, lets look at this from another franchise, "BEAST WARS (Season 2)", in the 2nd season, a trans-metal wave of sorts spread across the planet and gave the characters (majority of them) redesigns right off the bat, and some later on in the season and 3rd season. Now I know some of you will say "Well that was done, because of the toy line for that year." And that is true, but there have been several toy line based cartoons where the toys themselves were given redesigns, but the cartoon counterparts were not given any at all.


    Now you may say, "What does this have to do with the SatAM Cast's redesigns?" Well, I tell you what it has to do with it, for the 3rd Genesis Wave will be like that Trans-Metal Wave in a simaliar way, By giving the SatAM Characters and possibly other comic characters redesigns. That's way I see it happening.


    As far as it being like Other-M in redesign. I don't see it as of right now, but I understand that certian members of the Sonic Fanbase may see it as other wise. However we will just have to wait and see what occurs in these last 5 months, won't we?


    But I do ask the question, Why are Fans bugged by the possible and I mean silmly possible Other-M influences and refeneces that are coming in character design and redesign and have been already. I mean it's not like he will find a way to get his Other-M story offically published, because I dobut Archie and Sega will allow that VOILENT story to pass. So I ask you what's the problem with the Other-M influences and refeneces in the upcoming redesign and design?


    It's true, that all these redesigns could have been done differently and not have to be the result of a 3rd Genesis Wave or a DEM hydra plant (if that will still be used), but tons of backstage poltics and courtroom BS doesnt help it out one bit, now does it?


    As far as the SatAM Cast being back, favorable front and center, those that don't like that idea, well they need to understand something, and that is, unlike the game cast, they are unlimted, not limited, like the game cast. In other words they have no limitations on them, but the game cast does.
    That is why the SatAM cast is primarily shown as the MAIN CO-STARS of the comic along with Sonic, Tails and Amy, because they have no limitations to them, so let's say Ian wanted to have Amy Rose turned into a Elastic Mobian with Elastic powers for let's say 6 issues of the main comic, he couldn't do that, because Archie at Sega behalf's would not allow it to happen, thus Ian would have to change it to let's say Bunnie, instead of Amy Rose. That is why the SatAM Cast is always featured in more situations and stories than the game cast. Because they don't have limitations, unlike the game cast does.


    Now does that mean the game cast will be shoved aside, NO!, of course not. They will still strongly be featured in the comic, I mean the post SU arc (TRIPLE P) will feature the 4/5 MAIN FEMALE Game Characters in a VERY STRONG Way. So you die-hard game fans have nothing to worry about. ;)
    Because be honest with yourselves, do you just want an issue of the main comic to be like a game zone/level in the games, where it's basically Sonic passing the level/zone in one issue, than going onto the next zone/level in the following issue? Don't you think that would be little boring, I do.
    This is way the SatAM cast is featured as much as they are, to give more life to what would just be a "Sonic Just passed zone number whatever" in this issue comic.


    But basically, The Countdown to Chaos arc is basically the REBIRTH OF the KNOTHOLE FREEDOM FIGHTERS aka The Newly REDESIGNED SatAM Cast, whither we the Characters or not, or if the redesigns or not.




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One of the things that I've mentioned and asked about, is, "Was these past two years, the best time for Ian Flynn to do his epic World Tour 2/Death Egg Mark 2/Mecha Sally arc?"

    Well, my obvious opinionated answer to that, is no. And here is why.

    Now, I don't want to shift or put the complete blame of the timing of this two-year story arc all on Ian. You see, despite how you feel about him, he wasn't given a heads up of any kind from any of the higher-ups at Archie comics or even Sega. Because you see, if someone way above him would've taken the time to call him or e-mail him, heck even Skype him, to let him know that those previous two years would not be the best time to do this arc due to some behind-the-scenes shenanigans and court proceedings that were beyond their control or even his. Ian, in my opinion could've had the opportunity to not only put the storyline on hold, but as crazy as it sounds, perhaps make it even grander, and as some fans have complained about, make it more sensible, in other words, make the plot/arc easier to understand and follow.

    If someone higher up then Ian or even Paul could have done that, not only would allow Ian to do what I just mentioned, but also to probably do the Worlds Collide crossover before hand as a "Another Time, Another Place" event, that could have spanned the issues in which this recent two-year arc took place in.

    It could have even open the door for other possible stories to take place, and through these other stories, Ian could have found a similar/different method to get where he was going with issue 230.

    This isn't the first time that something like this has happened. You see, back in the early to mid-90s, DC comics was planning on doing a wedding issue between Superman/Clark Kent and Lois Lane. The only problem, was at this time, Warner Bros. and DC comics were producing the live-action Lois and Clark : The New Adventures Of Superman on ABC. Now what happened here, is something that I believe in a similar way could have been done with this comic book. You see, DC comics and the creative staff on the Superman comics, were all set and ready to do the wedding issue, however Warner Bros. along with ABC wanted to do the wedding of Lois and Clark before DC comics did it in the Superman comics. So what happened, is they let the creative staff on the comics know about this and ask them to hold off on their version of the wedding until after their version had aired on ABC. Now this, obviously left a void in that timeframe, and they needed something to fill that timeframe, and thus the Doomsday arc/The Death Of Superman was created as well as the aftermath, along with his return.

    And again, what does this have to do with these past two years? Very simply put, the higher-ups or someone up there could have done the same thing for Ian, they could have told them to hold off on his mega story arc until these behind-the-scenes shenanigans are/were taken care of. Thus, as I mentioned before, would have given Ian a little more time to work on his script of this mega arc that has recently completed. And giving him other story options to work with. And in the long run, avoided this whole mess that fans say Ian and those associated with him got themselves into.

    Now, this is just my opinion as a longtime twenty-year fan. But I honestly feel, that if someone in the high offices could have had the balls if you will to come down and let Ian and his fellow creative staff know what was going on behind the scenes, and told/asked them to hold off on this mega arc until everything was settled, then none of the BS that fans have said that Archie comics and Ian himself put them through, throughout these past two years, in my honest opinion, would have never happened.

    And that's all I'm going to say about that.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The other day I talked about the fact that fans were asking the question of what was the point of the past 2 1/2 years of story. Well, another question that has arisen over the past week or so, is "What was the point of robotizing Sally and modifying and weaponzing her if there wasn't going to be a payoff."

    Believe it or not, those that actually supported Ian's decision to turn Sally into a robot and modifier her, are actually now asking the question of what was the point if we're not going to get a proper payoff. And that along with the other question are good questions to ask and that need to be answered.

    Fans who had been against what Ian did to Sally, will come out and say that the reason we will not have a proper conclusion is due to the fact that what they had said over the past two years if not year and a half is true. You see, a strong majority of fans had accused Ian Flynn of having Eggman gut Sally from the inside out. In other words, fans accused Ian of having Eggman take Sally apart internally and rebuild her as nothing more than a battle ready Mecha robot. Thus, the reasoning for what we saw at the New York comic con in October of last year and more recently what we had seen on the final page of issue 252. In other words, what they see instead as a proper conclusion and a possible restoration of Sally back to flesh and blood, instead what they see is a copout or in other words a DEM.

    There is no doubt, that the other majority of fans will counter this and say give it a chance, that we may still get an explanation. But even these fans will admit and asked the question of what was the point of her being turned into a robot for the past two years.

    Some fans will point out, that issue after issue after issue, it was the same old pattern repeated over and over and over again. That being, fight Sally, almost rescue Sally, then let Sally escape, rinse and repeat. Which they will point out and say, that it was an unnecessary ride that Ian took us on with no final destination insight, thus the reason for the copout, instead of a proper conclusion.

    I for one, will sit and wait, I will read the issues starting with 252 and going forward, because I, a longtime fan for the past 20 years, I'm hoping we get a proper explanation as to why now Sally is back to normal, new redesign and all.

    I'm not afraid to admit, that I didn't like what he did to Sally, but for the past two years I dealt with it in my own way, true I still subscribed to the comic, but during the whole time she was a robot, I never opened a single issue. But now I will. I will open those issues, I will take a picture and video, so that you guys can see it for yourselves. But again, I'm not afraid to admit that I didn't like what he did, because one, through the summaries and scans that were posted at several of the Sonic message boards, including this one, I just cannot picture Sally saying the things that she said when she was a robot to her friends. True, story wise, she was not in control of her own actions, but still I could not bear myself to see her say those kind of things. And that's coming from a longtime 20 year fan of the comic and yes even the Saturday morning show.

    But still, several fans will ask, "What was the point of this whole story arc of her being a robot, if there is not going to be a proper payoff?"

    As I said before, if Ian Flynn does owe the fan base anything, it is a proper straightforward explanation as to what the point, if any, there was behind turning Sally into a battle ready robot.



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ''What was the point of the past two years of this story arc?"

    Now that is a very good question. Many feel that there was no point whatsoever for Ian Flynn to write this story arc and place established characters into situations that as of 252 and the upcoming Countdown To Chaos will have no resolve whatsoever. In other words have no absolute conclusion. Why would fans feel this way?, Mainly because Ian Flynn with all due respect in my opinion wrote himself into a corner.

    Now I'm not saying that to be bias, I'm saying that because from what has gone on behind the scenes, it seems that it is the most logical answer. You see, Ian Flynn had to alter/change his original plans of the story arc because of what happened behind the scenes. And to me with all due respect, I feel even though Ian had planned this story arc out from beginning to end, that he did not have a plan set in place in case something happened that would be beyond his control. Because it seems that a lot of the edits and changes that were made to the issues in the story arc were done almost at the last minute/11th hour, in other words almost right to the last second of the deadline that the story was required to be ready for publication because of what happened behind the scenes.

    Longtime fans and new fans can blame the lawsuit for these sudden changes and alteration of plans in the story arc. Some can blame the interference of Sega and Capcom was sticking their nose in at the wrong time in ordering the crossover to take place during the planned schedule time that Ian was hoping to wrap up his current story arc. And again some fans can blame Ian Flynn himself. Once again though, with all due respect to Ian Flynn, I believe as a longtime fan myself, someone who is read the comic from the very beginning and started to officially subscribed to it since issue 72 which should be about 180 issues ago this month, I believe that he had everything set and ready to go as planned, but the downfall was the fact that he didn't plan out a backup plan in case anything would happen behind the scenes. Thus the reason why some fans are confused and if not more upset at the fact that Ian Flynn took them on a two-year ride with no final destination insight.

    However in reality, a change of plans is not uncommon. A couple of weeks ago, my second older sister and her husband were supposed to fly out of Las Vegas and come here to pick up the sons on the 18th of this month, but because mother nature decided to rain down on their plans, they had to wait an extra day and then fly out finally and get their kids. Another example would be myself during that same situation, for you see I had planned to wake my nine-year-old nephew up to get him ready for school when his dad's father would pick him up and take him there, and while he would be gone, I would relax, do some vids for my YouTube channel, and possibly watch some movies as well as see what was going on on the Internet. But because of the fact that my second older sister and her husband had to wait an extra day, their sons were here and thus that had altered my plans. So again a change of plans is not uncommon in life. One more example would be the fact, that my oldest sister was going to take my now 21-year-old niece to see American storm in Las Vegas, but because of the fact that they were on tour, a change of plans and destination had to be made, thus they decided to do the traditional Chippendale's instead. And once again this shows that even though we plan out something and hope to achieve it and see it happen as we plan it out, sometimes plans will be altered and changed and if a destination is in mind within those plans, that it too can be altered and changed. And that is exactly what happened with Ian Flynn's story arc.

    Now one could argue, that even if that is the case, why was there no conclusion? Because Ian's orginal plans for the story arc were altered and changed because he did not have a backup plan just in case certain things happened behind the scenes that would be beyond his control.

    But I will say this, Ian and Paul do owe a straight forward, truthful explanation as to what the point was to the story arc of the past 2 1/2 years. I will say that they do owe the entire fan base, the readers/subscribers an explanation.

    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Let's face facts, no matter what any of the creative staff does on the Sonic comic book at Archie comics. No one is truly satisfied. And there is a number of reasons as to why.


    1) You can't do a story arc, no matter how long it could be, without invoking one fanbase because you don't feature their favorite characters or the characters they feel are more established. It's a true fact. Over the past two years, you've had the Saturday morning fans be enraged because the stories were focusing more on the game characters. But on the other hand, you have the game fans enraged with the upcoming Countdown To Chaos arc and in previous issues of the past were the Saturday morning/comic cast were featured more prominently then the game cast. So no matter what this creative staff does, unless they can find a way to balance things out, it's always going to be a no-win situation.

    2) Relationships, more importantly romantic relationships, always seem to be the center of controversy, because one fanbase wants Sonic to be with either Amy or Blaze, or Rouge, or even as crazy as it sounds, Elise. While the other fanbase wants Sonic to be together and stay together with Sally. And thus is the reason why when Sonic is placed into what many have dubbed and noticed as a temporary relationship (boyfriend/girlfriend) with Sally. You have the game fanbase totally ticked off at the fact that once again, Sonic/Sally are together as an item, even if it's only temporary. But on the flip side, when someone like Ian Flynn shows/teases hints of possibly Sonic/Amy or any other game girl with Sonic in the comics, you have the Saturday morning/comic fanbase totally ticked off as well as if it was the other way around. Which is why relationships for Sonic to be in, in the comic are not featured as much as they used to be.
    But you see, what game core fans just don't understand or refuse to understand and overlook, is the fact that Sally is the default choice. As much as fans want Sonic to be with Amy or maybe even Blaze, they have to understand that because they appear in the games with Sonic, that it would detract from what each other's personality is about. When it comes to Amy, they want Sonic to be in a steady and official relationship with her that no matter what other media focuses on Sonic, that they have to acknowledge Sonic and Amy as the official couple. But again that detracts away from the personality that Sega had given Sonic and that is a personality of being a free spirit and not being held down by anything. Which is why when the Saturday morning cartoon and the comics pair him up with Sally, Sega never really says any thing, because they understand, especially with the help of their representatives that get acknowledged in the credits on the first page of the comics, that pairing Sonic with Sally will not detract away from his personality that they have established for him, because, a) she's not an in game character, yet. , b) even though she's part of the franchise, her relationship with Sonic, is the kind of relationship that can be turned on for as long as it needs to be and turned off for as long as it needs to be.
    You take a look at Nintendo for example, you can't tell me that the people at Nintendo don't realize that the fans have acknowledged Mario/Peach and Luigi/Daisy as two individual couples, because they have. The only difference is they don't shove it in our faces. Because they know, that if they were to come out and officially acknowledge those 4 as individual boyfriend/girlfriend couples, that it would detract from what made the characters famous in the first place. Which is why they don't/haven't come out and officially acknowledged it yet. Thus is the reason why Sega has yet and probably never will come out and acknowledge Sonic and Amy or even Sonic and Blaze as official boyfriend/girlfriend couples, is because it would detract away from not only Sonic's established personality of being a free spirit, it would also detract away from the personalities that have been established with Amy and Blaze.
    Which again is the reason, even if one does not want to acknowledge it, Sally is the default girlfriend/love instrest of Sonic in the Archie comic books.

    3) When one creates or announces that they're going to be doing a long story arc, you have one side that supports them and you have another side that believes it's a big mistake.
    When Ian did his long story arc which officially began in 225, and with a few interruptions/crossovers notwithstanding, officially ended in 252. There were some fans that felt he did the best job he could and that he was trying to give us something different and refreshing. On the flipside, you have some that believe that it was entirely a waste of time. That all he was doing was padding on and padding on and padding on, without no real conclusion insight.
    And as much as Ian would like to come out and has come out to try to explain the reasoning behind what's going on and even going as far as to admit that the near 25 issue (not counting worlds collide crossover) was even too long for his taste, it seems no matter how you feel about the guy or anyone else that would attempt to do an epic story arc for a very established comic, that there will always be a division amongst the fan's.

    4) Finally, we have the redesigns. As I've mentioned in my monthly opinions for this month, it's not the first time that the Saturday morning cast has been redesigned. You take a look back in 1993 and 1994, as well as you take a look at the original Sonic miniseries comic and the first official 14 issues, and then later on down the line, starting with back stories in issues 17 and 18 as well as in the 48 page comic book special, Sonic In Your Face, as well as down the line in the mid-to late 80s issues with a certain half cybernetic Bunnie and even afterwords in issue 134, we have seen the characters go through a number of redesigns. True, some of the redesigns have been just adding new clothing or making one's hair longer, but we have seen our share of redesigns, even if they were small tweaks here and there.
    But when it comes to these new redesigns, which are being introduced in the 20th anniversary year of the comic, once again we have an overall fan base divided. Because you have some that like it, and you have some that don't care for it. Me, I'm fine with it. Because honestly, I don't think it's the redesigns that a lot of fans are worried about, it's more or less what the personalities of the characters of going to be like. Basically will they still be the same? Will they be different? Or will they be tweaked in some areas? You see, that honestly is what I feel fan's who don't like the redesigns all really worried about. Because let's be honest, we all know that those that don't like the redesigns, they will get over them in time, it's more or less of what the personalities of going to be like. Now Ian has said each character will be who they are. For example, Sally will be Sally, or Antoine will be Antoine, Bunnie will be Bunnie, etc..., So for right now as much as people may not want to believe Ian Flynn, we have to take him at his word. Now true, they may, and I say this as a slight possibility, they may tweak just a bit of the personalities on the characters, so that newer fans can relate to them. But like I said, it's a slight possibility.


    Overall, no matter how one looks at it, there's no satisfying the overall fan base. The only way it can be satisfied as I mentioned earlier is to find a way to balance everything out. But even then, even if it's a smooth ride from then on, you may and probably still will have a divided fan base no matter what.

    And that's all I have to say about that. God bless and take care.
     
  2. dth1971

    dth1971 Active Member

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    bwrosas: That's a nice long report/review about that 2 year Ian Flynn control over Sonic
     
  3. TenPoundHammer

    TenPoundHammer Wanna be on Wheel of Fortune

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    I live too far from a comic store, the local bookstore rarely has new issues of Sonic in, and I keep forgetting to just subscribe already. So I've just now gotten 252. Missing a lot of the story, I know, but I just want to say that as someone who's generally been a Sally fan, I have no qualms with her redesign. I really should fill in as many missing issues as possible to get a better feel for the series.
     
  4. bwrosas

    bwrosas Member

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    Monday, October 14, 2013
    start time : 3:08 PM


    Now I did another version of this earlier today, and what I'm about to say is something that as fans we need to start considering or at least doing.


    Ever since the New York comic convention last year. And throughout all of 2013 so far, this fan base has been divided on the character redesigns. Some love them, some are okay with them, and others just flat out disdain them. Well I can understand that, but I believe we should focus more outside of the redesigns and/or at least talk about what potentially could happen as a result of this soft reboot.


    With the redesigns, I can understand that the main problem with them, is not how they look, but how the personalities will portray them. I believe as a longtime fan, that the personalities of the characters will not change whatsoever, they might have a tweak here and there, but if Ian Flynn says that the characters will be who they are as we know them, then whether we want to believe him or not, we will just have to wait it out and for right now, take his word on it.


    But as I mentioned above, we need to focus more on what could happen afterwards. For example, what kind of character development will we get from the freedom fighters, once they come in contact with Nicole. I mean one of the major things that fans are indeed worried about and understandably so, is Antoine and Bunnie's marriage. Will it still exist?, Or will be null and void? You see that is something that I am intrigued about. Because if Ian Flynn decides to make the marriage and act like it never happened, and possibly the relationship of Antoine and Bunnie as well, to me that would be the wrong thing to do. Because out of all the romantic couples and relationships in the comic's history, you don't take one that through all the trials and errors and all the ups and downs that several writers took them through for 127 issues and that alone was built up to the marriage in 174, and then add on the 60 issues that came afterwards, plus the four sonic universe issues that they were a part of, and you would be throwing away up to about 190 issues of story and character development. That is what Ian Flynn would be doing with the Antoine/Bunnie relationship and marriage, just throwing out almost 200 issues worth of character and story development.


    And that's just one thing that could change as a result of this soft reboot. Another could be Fiona Fox. Now I get that storyline wise, she's in the anti-world, but who's to say she still won't be affected. Think about it, a majority of fans were upset that Ian Flynn turned her bad/antihero in 172, for as some put it no real reason. Well let's look at it this way, it appears that everything that's occurring in CTC, is taking place between 225 and 230, and perhaps even before that. And one must wonder, if perhaps Fiona might be softly rebooted back onto the side of good. That's another thing that I would be intrigued about.


    And hey, what about factions? Who's to say that the sandblast freedom fighters and Baron Beauregard's dark Legion didn't switch sides. Who's to say that the sandblast freedom fighters are not now the sandblast egg Army and who's to say Baron Beauregard's dark egg Legion are not now freedom fighters.


    You see it's stuff like that, that we should be discussing more then our love/hatred for the main cast redesigns.


    And hey speaking of the main cast, whose to say that fan service will not be part of this soft reboot. Ian Flynn has proven that he can do just that, heck the comic as a whole throughout its history has proven that. Who's to say it won't happen more so in the soft reboot.
    I mean, if you want a good example of what potential fan service on a romantic scale could be delivered to us courtesy of this soft reboot, how about Tails/Amy, hey with this soft reboot it could happen. I mean there are some, if not a majority of fans that want to see Tails have a girlfriend. And from what they've said about Ian Flynn, perhaps Tails might get hooked up with Amy. But on the other hand, there's three more choices, they are, Mina, and this is due to the future story arc, as well as possibly a rebooted and good Fiona Fox, or perhaps what has become the biggest fan supported relationship for our two tailed friend, none other then Nicole. Now I know some a you might raise your eyebrows about that, but apparently it's one of the most popular fan supported pairings in the Sonic fanbase. And if Ian Flynn wants to provide some fan service to the fans,, who knows he might make it happen due to this being a soft rebooted continuity.


    Again it's stuff like this, that I believe we should focus more on, then just the character redesigns. Because whether we want to admit or not, it seems that these redesigns are here for the long haul. So I suggest as fans we focus more on the aftereffects of CTC more than the character redesigns.


    Because when one thinks about it folks, if we keep complaining about the character redesigns, we lose focus on what's really important and that's the story and the continuity that goes with it. Besides let's remember one thing, nothing last forever. So we cannot say that these redesigns will be here until the comic is eventually canceled, because when I say long haul, I look at more of a year to two-year maybe three year run, before we get another redesign or continuity event that switches things back to the way they were or changes them more so.


    So again, I ask as a fellow longtime Sonic fan, let's please try to focus on more of what could happen storyline/continuity wise, then what the redesigns of the characters will look like.


    I have more to say in my alternate version, which I'm sure a lot of you know of and a lot of you know where to find it, and if you like take your time with it. But that's all I have to say on the matter right now.


    God bless and take care.


    Ending time : 3:42 PM
     
  5. Alonso Torrejon

    Alonso Torrejon Active Member

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    My only disappointment is the fact is that Art Mawhinney is no longer with the artists.

    I rather liked his/her art, especially in Knuckles' Chaotix, Sonic Blast, and Issue 150.

    A little bit on the cutesy side, but still enjoyable.

    Overall, I wish Art was back for good.
     
  6. bwrosas

    bwrosas Member

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    Wednesday, January 8, 2014
    10:34 AM




    Well, some folks have been asking me to put my thoughts/review on Sonic issue 256 and the overall Countdown To Chaos 4 part soft retcon/reboot arc in writing. Well, as the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it. And that is exactly what is about to happen.


    Now let's start with issue 256. Basically we start off this issue with Amy and Cream successfully arriving back in the prime universe. Now of course their happy to be back, and of course Amy hopes that Sonic missed her as much as she missed him, and Cream can't wait to tell her mother about their adventures in Blaze's world. However that gets interrupted by Sally returning to the city in the escape pod that she stole from the Death Egg, while at the same time being pursued by Metal Sonic.


    After a brief exchange with Amy, both Sally and Amy start to take the fight to Metal Sonic, and it seems that Metal Sonic is getting the upper hand on both ladies. Even the newly redesigned Secret Service is no match for Metal Sonic. True they try to fight Metal Sonic to protect Sally, even though she told them to get the people to safety. Now throughout all this, Sally wonders why Amy didn't bring back up with her, of course Amy goes onto explain where she and Cream had been the entire time. Which makes Sally realize that it's just them against Metal Sonic. But of course when Amy ask about the distress signal that Sally sent out, and Sally goes on to explain where she sent it to, that's just about the time that the backup she was hoping for arrives in the form of Sonic.


    Which basically leads into a classic Metal Sonic versus Sonic race, that lures Metal Sonic away from the city. Amy of course is a bit annoyed, because she and Sally did most of the work and now here comes Sonic to hog all the glory, yet Sally explains that although that's true, the primary goal is to get the people to safety first then have glory last.


    Sonic along with Tails do manage to defeat Metal Sonic and this allows Sonic to go back to the city and embrace Sally in a tight hug, and complement her on how she looks and how much he missed her, and then of course to cover all the bases, he tells Amy he missed her too and wonders where she went off to.


    So basically with the entire freedom fighter team reunited back on sky patrol, which I guess is going to be the home away from home. Sonic finally decides to tell Sally and Amy what's going on, basically bring them up-to-date as to not only why he and everybody else is acting so strangely, but to explain why they are and why the planet is acting the way it is. Long story short, after the explanations are given, Sally and Amy both agree to touch Nicole's portable console, even though everyone had try to talk them out of it, they touch together and together have their memories of the old timeline/world restored to them. And of course, Sally starts to tear up at the memories that had been restored to her and what she had seen in her previous life. She of course apologizes for her actions, as Bunnie is comforting her, and as many predicted, Bunnie, I guess representing them all, tells Sally that what she did in her robot form was not her. So yeah, pretty much a majority of fans predicted that that was exactly what was going to happen, and even though it was just Bunnie that said it, it did


    And we end the issue with Nicole not only materializing to her full anamorphic form, but she goes on to explain simultaneously at the same time the Dr. is explaining to his henchmen (Cubot and Orbot), that because of the fact that every facet of reality fell in on itself it was then re-created, and that the excess energy from the Dr.'s more recent attempt to rewrite and re-create reality in his image has been applied to the planet which is too fragile to contain all that energy and thus is causing itself to tear apart, which both Nicole and the Dr. basically say simultaneously at the same time, that it's too late to fix it or stop it.
    We then get a 2 part splash page of the planet breaking apart. And thus ends and concludes issue 256 and the Countdown to Chaos arc.


    Overall 256 was a nice little issue, and a decent conclusion to the soft reboot/retcon of the comic.
    I did like seeing the fact, that Sally now has a way of fighting, besides using her martial arts and fists. I liked how both her and Amy were portrayed as being able to handle their own against the likes of Metal Sonic. And I will give them credit, by having the other freedom fighters try to explain to Sally and Amy that if they go through with restoring their memories of the previous lives that it was not going to be in easy trip/trek and that it might be wiser for them not to. So I will give the creative team credit on that.


    All in all, a decent conclusion to a nice decent arc.


    11:16am
    _________________________________________________________________________________________


    11:18 AM, 1/8/14


    Countdown To Chaos, overall was a decent 4 part story arc. True it did come about because of what was going on behind the scenes at Archie comics from a legal standpoint. But, in my opinion for a story arc that was put together on the fly, I have to say it did a decent job.


    True, not many are going to agree on how it came about, and even those that had a disdain for the previous arc, would've rather preferred a decent conclusion to that over this, which I agree we should at least of had a decent conclusion in some way/form or fashion, but again due to the legal issues behind-the-scenes that did not occur.


    The silver lining if you will, is that whether you like Ian Flynn on not, he is at least willing for free, going to try and give you an inside look on what he had originally planned for the previous arc, which would've ran all the way up to either issue 275 or issue 300. And another silver lining, is you also have some fans that are willing to come together and create a web comic similar to that of the Sonic Season 3 comic, but this time focusing on what originally would have been in the previous story arc. Heck, you even have one fan that is rewriting previous issues including this one to coincide with what Ian Flynn had originally planned. So there are those silver linings to look at and possibly appreciate.


    Now, as I said at the beginning, Countdown To Chaos was a decent 4 part story arc and in a sense a decent soft reboot.


    I give it credit for presenting the non-game characters, like Sally, Antoine and Bunnie as if they were from the games, by giving them special powers/abilities. Sally with energy blades coming out of her blue ring bracelets, Antoine with his sword spindash, and Bunnie with what I believe is her new shield or something like that. Overall good presentation of the nongame characters as if they were from the games. Which of course was the point of them been redesigned in this matter, whether any of us liked it or not.


    The setup for this arc, was good. It definitely played into the aftermath of not just World's Collide but of Eggman's meddling with both the original Genesis wave and the Super Genesis wave, and it's effect overall on all of their multi-verse and all of reality. This definitely helps set up the next few issues, quite possibly the next 19 issues or so of story.


    Again credit where credit is due, they said the characters would remain who they are and they did, personality wise that is. I did like the premise on how the old continuity/world/timeline was brought into play, by having Nicole (who I along with a few others called and said would be the key) restoring the freedom fighters memories, and by having her be the one that I guess was non-affected by the shift in the timeline and reality, the way I see it. But again I did like the premise, because it does acknowledge that the old continuity/timeline/world still counts in some shape or fashion, it's still counts.


    Now the way the freedom fighters were presented in each issue, that was pretty good as well. Because overall the way they were presented here, and in any future issues will be presented were more as a action team. Sort of along the lines if you will, as crazy as this sounds, but almost along the lines of the Justice League and X-Men and maybe the Avengers. That's the way I see them being presented not just in this arc but in future issues as well.


    Overall, for a soft reboot story arc of 4 issues, that in my opinion was done on the fly, I have to say it was a decent and a recommendable read.


    I give it an 8/10.


    And that's all I'm going to say.
    God bless and take care, comments are welcomed.
     
  7. dth1971

    dth1971 Active Member

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    I am glad Sally Acorn is back full time. I just uploaded a new avatar of her for the Toonzone forums!
     
  8. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    Sally's design is awesome, but Antoine can't pull off the shirtless Kirk look.

    I know most Male Mobians don't wear clothes - but let's face it, Antoine's uniform was part of his character. It's like having Judge Dredd without his helmet.
     
  9. dth1971

    dth1971 Active Member

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    What shirtless Kirk look?
     
  10. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    I guess Ripped Shirt Kirk is before most users time. Back in Star trek The Original Series, when Capt. Kirk shirt got ripped, he would eventually take it off.

    Antoine's new design ditched his iconic uniform for something that reminds me of that. Like most comic characters, the costume was part of the image.
     
  11. PC!

    PC! lolwut?

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    I'm not a fan of Antoine's outfit, either. I'd much rather Archie simplify his "soldier" outfit a la King Acorn instead of more or less throwing a white sash over him and calling it good.
     
  12. Dragonpiece

    Dragonpiece Active Member

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    I bought sonic issues 252-256 on my Ipad today to finally give this series and try and I really enjoyed it. Sonic satAM is one of my favorite cartoons, so I am glad the freedom fighters are the main group, though it is weird seeing Amy here, though I certainly don't mind.
     
  13. brickrrb2

    brickrrb2 Active Member

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    But what About Knuckles and the Choatix? Not to mention Elias, The queen, St John and Thrash
     
  14. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    Since they're game characters, Knuckles and the Chaotix should be safe from being Removed From The Comic. Thrash was created by the current writer, so he should be ok as long as the higher ups are fine with it.

    But as for St. John,
    . And from what I can tell, so any other character whose's rights are in dispute.
     
  15. brickrrb2

    brickrrb2 Active Member

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    So Julie Su, Echinaoplis and the Dark Legion and Robotropolis...Never happened
     
  16. Gatomon41

    Gatomon41 Free Equestrian Forces

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    Not for certain... but signs are that these characters and plots will not appear anytime soon.
     
  17. TheGunheart

    TheGunheart Darkness and Disgrace

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    To be honest? I kinda hate the way they handled the "soft reboot". I'd kinda rather it go with no explanation than the creepy implication that Sonic accidentally killed a good portion of his supporting cast with incompetent dimensional control. Heck, even the characters that stuck around might count; they're different people with different memories, so the characters we had been following are pretty much gone.
     
  18. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    It's not really Sonic's fault. He was going to set things back to the way they were before World's Collide but Eggman, refusing to lose for the umpteenth time, attacked him and basically messed it all up.

    It's kind of funny how, like in Unleashed, Eggman is partly the reason the planet is breaking apart, only he actually didn't intend to do it this time :sweat:.

    I'm betting pretty much all of Knuckles' history and story in the comics is gone, because most of it was by Ken Penders. I wouldn't be surprised though if Ian uses elements of Sonic Chronicles to try and bring some semblance of it back.
     
  19. brickrrb2

    brickrrb2 Active Member

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    I personally wish that they had done away with all satam characters period
     
  20. Antiyonder

    Antiyonder Amalgam Universe Overlord
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    Besides, looking at Knuckles as an example, I see this way being for the best.

    In the first place, with the mourning of the lost echidnas in Endanger Species, Knuckles wouldn't be able to show any direct mourning for particular ones due to well legal reasons.

    And in the second place, how long would it be before he could really recover from from that loss without making him seem cold?

    Well he kind of did, out of spite. But then seeing the magnitude of what he caused, prompted him to consider that he might have screwed up.

    I mean it happens. You get into a dispute with someone and endangering the restoration of reality seems like it's a good idea at the time.:D
     

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