"Son of Batman" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, May 6, 2014.

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Rate and Comment on the "Son of Batman" Animated Feature

  1. *****

    7.1%
  2. ****1/2

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  3. ****

    14.3%
  4. ***1/2

    21.4%
  5. ***

    28.6%
  6. **1/2

    14.3%
  7. **

    7.1%
  8. *1/2

    7.1%
  9. *

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  10. 1/2

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  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey Administrator

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    Vengeance runs in the blood...

    [​IMG]
    Son of Batman
    Studio: Warner Bros. Animation
    Release Date: May 6th, 2014

    Synopsis: Hidden atop a secret mountain stronghold lies the League of Shadows and its fearless leader, Ra’s al Ghul. Together with his equally dangerous daughter Talia, he oversees a trained army of assassins with plans for global domination. But an uprising from within the league now threatens to shift the balance of power and sends Talia and her young son, Damian, fleeing to Gotham City. With assassins on their trail, Talia seeks the protection of Batman, who, unbeknownst to him, is the boy’s father. With his son in tow, Batman wages war against the villain Deathstroke and the League of Shadows, all while teaching his headstrong boy that one can’t fight crime by becoming a criminal. With help from Gotham’s finest, including Commissioner Gordon and Nightwing, Batman will soon discover that his son and most trusted ally are one and the same!

    The voice cast for Son of Batman features Jason O’Mara as Batman/Bruce Wayne; Stuart Allan as Damian; Morena Baccarin as Talia, Damian’s mother and Batman’s lover; Giancarlo Esposito as Ra’s Al Ghul, leader of the League of Assassins and one of Batman’s most dangerous foes; David McCallum as Alfred Pennyworth; Xander Berkeley as Kirk Langstrom; and Thomas Gibson as the deadly assassin Deathstroke. Son of Batman is directed by Ethan Spaulding, from a screenplay by Joe R. Lansdale adapting a story by James Robinson. Son of Batman is inspired by the acclaimed Batman storyline “Batman and Son,” written by Grant Morrison.

    Discuss the Son of Batman animated feature!

    Please post all discussions concerning about the Son of Batman animated feature in this thread! Discussion on the Blu-ray/DVD/Digital release of Son of Batman can be found in the proper talkback linked below.

    Related Threads:
    -Son of Batman Feature Review (Spoilers)
    -Son of Batman Blu-ray/DVD/Digital Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Son of Batman Soundtrack Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman and Son Comic Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Deluxe Edition Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part Two Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part One Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Year One Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Under the Red Hood Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Gotham Knight Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Arkham Origins Video Game Talkback (Spoilers)

    Note: Remember, this talkback thread is for discussion of the feature film. If you wish to talk about the home video release, please click on the appropriate link above. We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
  2. Lord Sidious

    Lord Sidious Active Member

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    People are complaining about how Deathstroke got punked by The Batman.

    I say, the Batman is just that good. If Damian can go toe to toe with Slade then The Batman would obliterate Deathstroke which he did.

    overall, I like this movie. It goes well after Under The Red Hood.

    Its not perfect but it has Great actions and choreography.
     
  3. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Grumpy Gorilla

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    My review for Toonzone News is mostly positive. Certainly better than JL: War, and enjoyable enough, but nothing groundbreaking.

    I also got really annoyed at some of those plot twists I mentioned. Slade gloating at Damian in that climactic fight, especially since he knew the kid was good enough to cost him an eye. Other than genre convention, there is just no reason at all to bother with the "Ha ha I lured you here so I could kill you" speech and engage in a hand-to-hand fight, especially when Deathstroke has already shown his willingness to play dirty and the League of Assassin's tendency to bring knives to gunfights. You want to kill the kid? Then KILL THE KID. Lead him into a room and blow it up. Shoot him. Anything other than what we got. I can also understand the plot necessity of having Talia captured, but the way they went about it was all wrong, and just made her and the League ninjas look really, really dumb.
     
  4. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.

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    Still have to gather my thoughts but as I watched it for the first time

    -Damian was too overpowered and made some odd choices. Beating up Ubu? Getting stabbed in the arms and using a cliche move to defeat Deathstroke? Not knowing to use stealth when they spoke to Langstrom?

    -Damian Wayne pulled a Nolan. He spared Deathstroke's life but left him to die at the Lazarus rig. I guess he did learn something from his father. :O

    -Didn't care for how the League, Ubu, Deathstroke or Ra's was portrayed. There's reason to side with Batman's logic he's a genocidal maniac other than your previous knowledge of the character. All that old school weaponry yet Talia's got the awesome modern day black ops yacht.

    -Wasn't sure who this throw away at the start, Domo was? In the subtitles, it was Domo. But since he was brother to Talia and called Ra's father, I thought he was Dusan at first.

    -And what exactly was Ra's' plan with Ninja Man-Bats going to be? I mean, really? On paper - sounds awesome. In practice, ridiculous. Even in the comic it was. There was no pay off for the Man Bats. It went on a tangent with Deathstroke mining a Lazarus Pit and wanting to turn it into a '24 hour energy drink brand.'

    -What I did like was the little details. The coordinates and map for the Outer Hebrides was accurate. At Wayne Enterprises, LexCorp (and Metropolis) were referenced. It's a nice little follow up to the LexCorp reference in War, the demolition site. I believe that was a shout out to Michael Jelenic in there as Wayne's officers are yammering. Dug there were 3 retired Bat suits in the Batcave case. I liked the cameos by Two-Face and Joker.

    -I did appreciate that this movie expanded on Gotham City and Batman's supporting cast and rogues fresh off of JL: War. Any continuity has to start somewhere and build slowly, and while the first two movies have growing pains. And definitely felt like they over did it on Damian's skill set at the expense of power houses like Ubu and Deathstroke but I'm suspicious they plan on revisiting Damian in another Batman flick and hopefully continue to expand on the Bat family - introducing Barbara Gordon, figuring out how to fit Tim Drake in there, and so forth.

    -Nightwing and Alfred were pretty cool in this one. Loved that Nightwing beat Damian and didn't hesitate to remind him.

    -I wasn't too put off by the violence - stabbing , slicing, shooting or Croc losing his tail. But that last one. Phew.

    -Still a little put off by certain character and location re-uses like Arkham from The Batman or Gordon from Gotham Knight. But I'm getting used to it. Bourassa only has so much time to create, tweak and so forth. And there's only so many ways to design the present day Gordon.

    It was good movie. Not great. Not that awful. Just a lot of things not gelling for me. This movie made me really appreciate Waller and her Project Batman Beyond in "Epilogue" since it skirted right around using this kind of story to create a son for Batman.[​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  5. brickrrb2

    brickrrb2 Active Member

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    Tim Drake REALLY Should have been in this movie
     
  6. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Atom Ant... Man Staff Member

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    I liked the movie. It was better than I expected, but still nothing truly spectacular. There were some pretty awesome moments here and there. Batman was pretty great, his voice actor sounded better here than in the previous Justice League: War, and it was nice seeing more of Gotham City and other Batman-related stuff in the movie. The visit to Arkham was pretty neat, and Nightwing's appearance was handled pretty well. Liked how he managed to defeat Damian (which we get to see during the end credits, too bad it wasn't really animated). Alfred was great, he wasn't seen too much but he did have some great lines here. As for Damian, well i thought he was a pretty cool character here and I'm guessing we'll see more of him in future movies.

    I thought Deathstroke on the other hand wasn't really presented that well, despite having some good fight scenes during the movie. I didn't mind this too much but I guess it is kind of odd seeing him defeated so easily. Ra's didn't really have a lot to do in the movie, but I admit I really liked the action scenes he participated in at the start of the movie. Talia was pretty good as well, liked her design and voice actress but other than that she didn't really leave an impression on me. I appreciated the addition of other Bat-rogues in the movie, like Killer Croc and Man-Bat(s), which also lead to some more neat fight scenes.

    The story was pretty good, though the characters weren't really developed enough to make their decisions throughout the movie make too much sense. Still, I enjoyed the movie - good character designs, fight scenes and despite all its flaws I'd say it's a more cohesive story than Justice League: War, and probably a more entertaining movie as well.

    One final, random thought: Loved how Looney Tunes' "The Great Piggy Bank Robbery" was on TV when Alfred turned it on. Would have been funnier if they showed clips from Batman: The Brave and the Bold's "Legends of the Dark Mite!".
     
  7. Zombie

    Zombie New Member

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    This carries on the standard of most of these dtvs. Which is to say, solid voice acting, great character design and animation and well choreographed action sequences. And rather lazy, inept writing.

    One of the things that I feel is really out of place in all of these dtvs is the constant focusing on 'not killing, ever' as the defining feature of dc brand heroism. There is even a rather absurd part where Batman is lecturing Damian saying "You're not being a warrior or a soldier..." It's like, are the writers aware that killing their enemies is pretty much what warriors and soldiers are all about? Now, if his argument was that Ubu was already defeated, and Damian was wrong to continue attacking him, fine. But that isn't the argument the writers were making.
    If Batman doesn't like to kill and tries to avoid it wherever possible, that's admirable. But I just can't wrap my head around a guy telling his 10 year old son not to use potentially lethal force on the guys trying to shoot/stab him.
     
  8. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Grumpy Gorilla

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    For the first one, it sure seemed like they were setting him up as a much older son of Ra's al-Ghul, but by calling him "Domo" in the subtitles, it suggests that he's Ra's al-Ghul's majordomo, sort of the COO of the League. But the scene was created for the movie, so I have no basis for comparison. From context, they communicate enough about him that you know he's important and it's a big deal that he gets offed.

    And I agree on the ninja Man-Bats thing. Best I can come up with is that it was a way to build a better warrior, but it still seems too complex for what they wanted to achieve.

    Batman yanking Croc's new tail also seemed extremely out of character for Batman as well as being inconsistent. The tail was the one limb that wasn't restrained. They established very clearly that it was dangerous. But Batman just walks up to it and rips it out by the roots?

    While I don't think the DTVs have made a very good case for Batman's non-lethal policies in general (Under the Red Hood fell particularly flat on that front, IMO), I'm not sure I quite understand the argument you're making here. I thought by telling Damian that he wasn't being a warrior or a solider, Batman was telling him, "You're playing by different rules and can't use lethal force the way you used to." Any time you're using force to change someone's way of thinking, the potential for death is there. The difference is whether you're walking into the fight with the intent of killing your opponent. Damian always used to walk into any fight with the intention of killing the enemy. Batman is telling him he can't do that any more.

    I'd also say that the differences the movies tend to make are little more than semantic hair-splitting. The "that was fun" fight where they hid Langstrom ends with Damian leaping on a ninja and twisting his neck hard enough to hear a crack. I'm kind of not seeing any meaningful distinction between that and killing the guy.
     
  9. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.

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    True, he could have easily been Sensei, who is the majordomo of the League traditionally but then there was the dialogue where he calls Ra's 'father' and Talia calls him 'brother'. Maybe I should see if Joe R Lansdale or James Robinson have twitter accounts.

    Wouldn't it been in the same vein as dropping a gangster off a roof and catching them at the last second? Plus, with the tail, we know from dialogue that's not a standard feature of Croc's so it is expendable. Since he was coming off the steroid cocktail, it's implied his tail could deteriorate and fall off anyway without frequent hits.
     
  10. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Grumpy Gorilla

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    I'm not so sure I can buy those explanations. Even if the tail might fall off on its own without continued steroids, it might not, too. Fundamentally, though, it's a body part, and it's something that we're given extremely little information about. It's out of character for Batman to rip a gangster's finger off to get him to talk. I don't see any meaningful distinction between doing that and ripping Croc's new tail out.

    FWIW, I'm also growing increasingly weary and less ethically cool with the "drop 'em off a roof/catch them at the last second" threat. I get that coercion and methods that are deliberately forbidden to the police are part and parcel of the whole comic book superhero vigilante gig, but they pulled that in Captain America: The Winter Soldier and I was not terribly impressed when they used that trick, either. Increasingly, it seems more like torture to me, but it's also becoming too much of a cliche.
     
  11. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.

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    The torture explanation, okay, I concede. Flimsy example and a cliche. I stand by the steroid explanation. We're talking Batman. He's already figured out the tail will come off and he could use it for his interrogation. I will even go as far to say this scene was totally useless. Batman already knew those were mutagens and already figured out it was Langstrom. I'm sure, because of past encounter(s), he has Langstrom's address. He should have just went straight to Langstrom's place. But we wouldn't have a location design reuse and two shameless cameos. And Gordon wouldn't be introduced until later. Or we wouldn't know what happened to Croc. Big loss. :p
     
  12. Zombie

    Zombie New Member

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    This kind of ties in with my take on the 'no killing, ever' issue. It seems like Batman, and most other superheroes have reversed a couple of longstanding moral stances i.e torture is always wrong, but lethal force in self defence is acceptable. I find DC in particular an offender on the torture front. A couple of Arrow episodes I was watching a while back had Ollie shoot an arrow into the shoulder of a lawyer (not a criminal, just a regular defence lawyer), then twist it to get information. Then in a later episode (not torture on this occasion, but still pretty messed up) Ollie shoots Roy in the leg with an arrow to stop him from getting involved in one of Ollie's cases. It seems like DC heroes have arrived at this bizarre point where they are almost more likely to apply excessive force in morally questionable situations, like committing torture/greivous bodily harm against allies, civilians or already subdued enemies, than in ones where it would be considered both legally and morally acceptable, like using potentially lethal force when someone is trying to shoot them (or their son) in the face.
     
  13. ABrown

    ABrown Active Member

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    Got this for my birthday, finally got around to watching it. It was pretty good. I liked the animation, it kinda reminded me of the animation in G.I. Joe: Resolute. Talia was really hot in the movie. Speaking of Talia, I was a little surprised that she didn't even want to try to use the Lazarus pit to revive Ra's. I know if I were in her shoes (by the way, I loved the heels), I'd at least try. I mean, what's it gonna hurt?
     
  14. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.

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    I wondered about that, too. I suppose 'the rule' was if a body is horribly damaged, the Pit can't heal. Gunshots, old age - no problem. Go figure. Then again, this could have been a similar scenario in the aftermath of the "Near Apocalypse of '09" in which that version of Ra's could not be healed either. But I agree, it wouldn't have hurt. And also, I get there wasn't time but I noted the cliche of not showing a funeral being held, burying his body, or burning his body. If I recall, one of the next story arcs was
    Though, Talia's perspective and role in story was somewhat altered from the comics version... within the context of the story, we have Ra's, Talia, and Damian. Much of the focus was grooming Damian to take over the League of Assassins and notably absent was any mention of Talia ascending to lead it in the meantime. And consider the underlying "classic ideology" the League took evidenced by it's hideout nestled in nature (versus some hi-tech underground base, high rise tower), its assassins training session were doing kata, the assassins use of traditional weaponry like swords and bows and arrows contrasted with Deathstroke's team using guns and helicopters, Domo -- it did feel like a male dominant hierarchy at play with the League. Couple that with Talia at the end of the movie, vowing to rebuild the League and make it stronger and better. With that in mind, upon second viewing, I'm wondering if Talia was taking advantage of Deathstroke's rebellion all along. She knew drawing Batman into the conflict would be in her favor and allow her to take over the League and avoid any protest from Damian. All she had to do was stay alive and stay near a Lazarus Pit. That's why I do wonder if she appears again, if she'll be in a more villainous role like in the comics this movie drew from.
     
  15. Lord Sidious

    Lord Sidious Active Member

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    I know it's NOT in Continuity...

    BUT since I put them on my personal continuity.....Talia did not put Ra's back in the pit because of her witnessing what happened to Jason Todd when he was put on it....ala Under the Red Hood years ago. hehehe
     
  16. ABrown

    ABrown Active Member

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    I know that this discussion should probably go in the Red Hood thread, but I personally don't think anything different happened to Jason. He initially came back a little crazy, but that's supposed to be what happens to Ra's every time that he bathes in the pits. I don't think that the pits changed Jason's personality at all, he still was who he was.
     
  17. Bit Cloud

    Bit Cloud Member

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    Agreed, I was a little disappointed that Tim nor Barbara wasn't seen or even got so much as a name drop. And as others have mentioned it seemed off that the "Ra's-Talia Faction" was so low tech compared to other incarnations of the League of Assassins, this changes Damien's origin in the comics where he was grown in artificial womb and genetically altered, the League has always been portrayed as having cutting edge tech, while still following ancient traditions. And was anyone else bothered that Talia used a "date rape" drug on Bruce.
     
  18. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator Staff Member

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    I was more bothered by the fact that they had Bruce say he somewhat enjoyed being date raped. I feel that if the movie wasn't going to present Talia in that negative a light compared to the comics, the least it could've done is made the moment of Damien's conception completely consensual :sweat:.

    Going off of Yojimbo bringing it up, I also found interesting was that as of this movie, Batman has already gone through three versions of his costume. One of which had the classic yellow and black bat symbol, and I think it bares good resemblance to his classic suit in Under the Red Hood. I wonder if that was what he wore during the "Dynamic Duo" stage of his career when Dick first became Robin?

    Though I wonder what all the rest of that space for suits is for... maybe one for Batgirl and the other members of the Bat-Family?

    As for Tim... if the movies ever get around to introducing the Teen Titans, he's likely to show up there as Red Robin :).
     
  19. VladDraculi

    VladDraculi New Member

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    Man, what is with the DC movies suddenly? This movie was okay, better than War, but the voice acting was pretty bad, especially for Deathstroke, Talia, and Ra's. It's like they're N52 garbage writers are spilling over into what were some truly amazing movies. I looked forward to each new movie when it came out, but now, I am dreading them. I might even just stop buying them if Assault on Arkham is on the same level as Son and just Netflix them or something. It also does not help that I am tired of seeing Batman and Superman movies. I want something new.
     
  20. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Trickin' N Treatin'

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    Can't wait to see Not-Tim and the Imposters.

    Do they still go on Netflix?
     

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