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Saban Talkback: The Phoenix Rises - The Saban Discussion V1

Discussion in 'Saturday Morning Forever!' started by D Dubbs, Jul 12, 2012.

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  1. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    Some more variety might help it out, although I'm not sure what comedies they could get that could fit on the block. Reducing the Yu-Gi-Oh! airings probably isn't going to happen. Unless they can make a deal with Konami to rework the contract, which might take up more time and money than it's worth in the long run, I think that they're going to have to save three Yu-Gi-Oh! slots on the block.

    I think that's likely the case here. With channels that are more well known than the CW and give kids cartoon shows every day, a weekly block like the Vortexx isn't really going to offer them that much to the point where a lot of them would choose it over Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network or the Disney Channel. Even with FOX or CBS, they suffer with the same problem. I don't know if it's a lost cause per say considering the ratings can be better, although still relatively weak compared to the ratings on other channels, and I don't know if Saban is still turning in a profit, despite the poor ratings, but I definitely can't see the block getting really good ratings at this point.
     
  2. Sunnydee

    Sunnydee Member

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    Will WWE eventually need a break? Or can they easily make a show every week for the Vortexx? If Saban only ordered a certain number of episodes from them or they need a break, then maybe Sonic X will take over for it. If that's the case then i could see Sonic X taking over at 8:00 am and moving the entire schedule up so JLU leads into DBZ Kai.

    Or if they're really lucky, they managed to convince someone that Sonic X is E/I and the second Rescue Heroes slot will be filled with Sonic X. THAT would be a great schedule.

    Also I wouldn't put too much stock in the ratings right now. People hardly know where the CW is and it takes time for anyone to change their viewing habits. The shows right now are quality shows I think. I do agree that the block could use some comedy, but I'm not really sure what that would be (if you're looking at older shows). I imagine that they will get Cablevision viewers back when the CW primetime debuts, which is October, I think... Once that gets resolved I think the ratings will be much higher.

    I'm not sure if a months worth of ratings are enough to call this a lost cause. Of course, I'm biased, I think this is a solid block.
     
  3. gmster

    gmster Active Member

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    WWE never takes a break. They pump out hours of original programming week after week. Their flagship show recently hit 1000 episodes.
     
  4. JusticeLeaguer

    JusticeLeaguer Watchtower

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the first season of Zexal only 24 episodes long? And season two only has 25 episodes in it. So doesn't season two qualify as "26 or less new episodes"? Or is the "Broadcast Year" like the entire year from January 1 to December 31? Because I was under the impression that "Broadcast Year" meant the 2012 - 2013 season, in which case ZEXAL will only be airing 25 "new episodes". If that's the case, then I could see them losing a repeat airing of the original Yu-Gi-Oh! in order to free up a slot.
     
  5. Sunnydee

    Sunnydee Member

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    Wow, that's impressive. Well in that case I guess Sonic X would have to replace the lowest rated show outside of the E/I block and the Yu-Gi-Oh! shows, which is Power Rangers. Iron Man, JLU, and WWE are too good to take out.

    I don't know, don't you feel like if there is a good show on a network that people will eventually gravitate there? If a bunch of people like a show, they'll watch that show despite the network its on. If they have Digimon on the block and a kid wants to watch Digimon, it's not like they'll avoid it solely because of the network its on. But I do agree that a major problem is the lack of awareness about the channel let alone the block.
     
  6. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I don't know if they'd want to take Power Rangers off the lineup, especially if they're planning on bringing in a new season to the block at some point. I'd prefer if they took off the WWE, but I don't really like wrestling anyway. I hope that they don't take Iron Ma or JLU off the block since those are pretty good shows for the block.

    I wasn't trying to say that they aren't going to watch something just because of the network. I was trying to say that since kids can already get plenty of shows on more well known channels on Saturday morning, a lot of them aren't going to be interested in looking into other networks. It isn't so much of a matter of loyalty to a network, but rather, not really a desire to branch out into watching a weekly block when they can watch cartoons on other channels anytime they want to. Quality usually doesn't enter the equation. A few quality shows can pick up more viewers, but I think that kids are generally going to be more focused on entertainment than just quality. I don't know if a lot of kids even know about Digimon at this point, but I didn't say that they would avoid it because of the network. I just don't think that a weekly block would offer them as much as channels like Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network do, especially for Saturday mornings.

    I don't think it's a lost cause just yet. The block has started and it can take awhile to establish an audience, although those ratings are still quite bad, but I don't think that the Vortexx is going to revive the Saturday morning block anytime soon. It might eventually perform better than Toonzai did, but I doubt it will be a huge success.
     
  7. Sunnydee

    Sunnydee Member

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    I completely agree, I'd love to see WWE replaced as I'm not a fan of wrestling either, but why would they replace the top rated show on the block? So far it's doing great. There doesn't really seem like another option besides Power Rangers, which would also be weird because Saban would want to promote their own properties.

    They might have to give JLU a break because it has less episodes than the rest of the shows.

    Hmm, I'm not sure I understand. Isn't quality part of entertainment? Also, if they see a commercial for JLU and are waiting for something like Young Justice to start, aren't they more likely to switch over to JLU instead of watching Beyblade and then switch back to CN for Young Justice? I agree that Digimon doesn't carry any weight anymore. I think any audience that it gets will have to built from the ground-up (except for the die hard digimon fans). I think one of the major problems the block has is awareness of the block. I think if someone sees a commercial for something that interests them, they would try to watch that especially if its looks new.

    Have I completely missed your point? :sweat:

    Yeah, I don't think they'll be doing amazing Saturday morning numbers of the past, but I feel like they could move into third place by beating both Disney XD and Cartoon Network eventually, perhaps in a year or so. This week CN was in third with a 1.2 which isn't a million miles away from something the Vortexx could potentially do.
     
  8. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    I made a mistake. I meant it's a network that NOT a lot of people have. I know many people have never heard of the CW.
     
  9. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I didn't know that the WWE was doing that well in ratings. I thought it was still doing pretty poorly like most everything else. The fact that Power Rangers is one of their own properties does make it seem pretty unlikely to me that they would take it off the lineup. Even with the way its ratings have turned out, they probably would like to keep it on the block. I could maybe see them replacing it with a different Power Ranger season, either one of the more recent or the first season, but I don't think that they wouldn't have Power Rangers on their block. It would be a shame to give JLU a break since it wouldn't appear on the lineup for quite some time if they were airing all of Sonic X again.


    Quality is definitely a part of entertainment, but I was just saying that for kids in general, they're not going to focus on the quality as much as older people do. I'm not saying that they'll watch anything or something like that since they care about quality too. I just don't think that they'll focus on it as much as long as they're entertained. Sonic X constantly drew in high ratings for the block, despite being on the air for years, and while I wouldn't say it's a bad show by any means, it certainly doesn't come off as a high-quality series either. Kids can go back and forth between channels if they want to and the example about watching JLU before Young Justice could work. However, I wasn't saying that kids are only going to stick to one network. I've been trying to say that a weekly block like the Vortexx doesn't offer as much to kids as channels like Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon do and the fact that kids can watch their favorite shows anytime they want to nowadays doesn't help either. What's stopping a kid waiting for Young Justice to air to watch whatever is on Nickelodeon or the Disney Channel instead of going to the Vortexx?

    As for Digimon, I agree that they'll need to rebuild that audience from the ground up. I don't know how well Data Squad did on Disney XD, but it's been off the air for a number of years and Digimon was never that huge, outside of maybe the first and second series, so it will be a new experience for a lot of kids. I've seen quite a few promos for the block on Cartoon Network, so I think that there is at least more effort being put into promoting the Vortexx to get more people aware of it than there was for Toonzai.

    I could maybe see them beating out Disney XD in the future, but beating Cartoon Network might be a bit much. A 1.2 isn't that great, but Cartoon Network often has shows that get over that mark while it's a miracle to see any show here getting over the 1.0 mark.
     
  10. powergate92

    powergate92 Power Rangers and Stargate fan

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    Something to note is run continuously in Japan with 2 weeks between seasons. Because of that, Japan is 40 episodes ahead of the U.S.. Every time there's a 4 month break for the show in U.S., Japan becomes more ahead of the U.S. on episodes. With that, Konami will likely dub and have Saban air part of season 3 with season 2. Therefore there would be more than 26 episodes in "Broadcast Year." Yes, the "Broadcast Year" in this case is the 2012 - 2013 season.
     
  11. JusticeLeaguer

    JusticeLeaguer Watchtower

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    For the first four weeks of the Vortexx block, WWE has averaged a 0.75/3.25 rating which is slightly higher than the 0.55/2.75 average that the block has had as a whole. It's the Vortexx's second highest-rated show after JLU (which just barely beats it with a 0.75/3.5 rating average).

    Also of note, I just realized that DBZ Kai's latest airing is a series high for the Vortexx (not sure about its ratings for Toonzai).


    Ahh I see. Well still, there's no guarantee that Konami is going to combine season 3 episodes into this broadcast season. If they wanna keep the three Yu-Gi-Oh! airings on Vortexx though they probably will. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing one of them go.
     
  12. Alpha Flight

    Alpha Flight Creator of the Mid-Night Detectives comic series.

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    One of them might go away because Saban own's the U.S. rights to Sonic X and the Vortexx website, the first thing is a poll asking if Sonic X should come back to the channel.
     
  13. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I didn't know it was their second highest-rated show, but I don't really pay much attention to the news surrounding that show either. That's still not really high enough to the point where I think that they would want to keep it on the block over something like Sonic X that has been known to get better ratings, unless they have to for some reason. I'm pretty sure that DBZ Kai ratings on Toonzai did get a bit higher than what it got last week on the Vortexx, although I don't think by much and I don't think it happened that often either.

    I think that it's pretty likely that Konami will combine season three episodes into this broadcast season. It probably has more to do with Konami wanting to reduce the gap between the two versions of Zexal so that there wouldn't be as much of a gap between when the new cards are released and when they appear in Zexal. Though, reducing that gap is kind of hard when only one new episode is aired a week, but that might change once Konami gets more of their own dub ready to air.
     
  14. veemonjosh

    veemonjosh Get back, Jojo

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    But as we've been saying, barring the 26 episode loop-hole, they contractually have to air three Yu-Gi-Oh slots. That's why the discussion started in the first place, we're trying to figure out a slot for Sonic X to take.

    It's really a tight fix they're in at the moment.
     
  15. FidgitStyles

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    So they have to air 3 episodes of Yo-gi-oh no matter what? Even if the ratings are so low that advertisers pull out and Saban has to pay to keep it on the air? Or is it Konami that is paying to keep them on? Either way somebody is losing money because of this.
     
  16. Mandouga

    Mandouga Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not giving up on this block. All they really need to do is starting airing new shows (which I've know doubt will come in due time). As I've said before, the shows are all reruns being used as placeholders. I will say this much, it's definitely a pretty conservative move they've made starting with already established shows. Again, I think the low ratings are only because people came into it expect a lineup of entirely brand new shows, but were disappointed to find that it mostly has shows that they've already seen elsewhere. IMHO, we need to give it both a chance, as well as time. Having said that however, The Vortexx needs to start airing new shows pretty soon...
     
  17. powergate92

    powergate92 Power Rangers and Stargate fan

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    Saban is paying Konami. Here's what the "Konami-Saban License Agreement" says about it:
     
  18. gmster

    gmster Active Member

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    Is there any way Saban can get Konami to adjust the contract to reduce the number of Yugioh episodes they have to air?
     
    #998 gmster, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  19. powergate92

    powergate92 Power Rangers and Stargate fan

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    If Saban and Konami were to agree to amend the contract to do such, then yes. However, without a deal to air Yu-Gi-Oh on another network, I think that is unlikely to happen. Something to note is if the contract were amended, we would not know since the only reason we can read the contact is because, it was included in the 4Kids sale documents that were filed with the bankruptcy court and posted on Epiq on June 26.
     
    #999 powergate92, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  20. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I still don't really understand this whole kids were disappointed with reruns. Aside from maybe Iron Man, all of the new shows that are on the block aren't that familiar with kids and haven't been on the air in years. Even Iron Man hasn't had that much exposure beyond Nicktoons and I can't really see a lot of kids who have that channel watching the CW on Saturday mornings anyway. The only show that is still in reruns that kids are familiar with is Yu-Gi-Oh! DM and they have to air it. Getting brand new shows that haven't aired anywhere else is kind of hard, but I don't think that these shows are being used as placeholders. Plus, if kids didn't want reruns, then I don't think so many people would vote for Sonic X to return anyway.

    Considering how long it will most likely take to get Yu-Gi-Oh! to air on another network, I think that the Vortexx is going to have to keep the three Yu-Gi-Oh! slots for quite some time.
     
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