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Primary Election 2008 Talkback (Please Read Rules Before Posting!)

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by Zach Logan, Nov 17, 2007.

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  1. Zach Logan

    Zach Logan We are Maji!

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    Hey everyone,

    I decided to try and liven things up here at the Cafe by sparking up something that hasn't been around since 2004. We're NOT bringing back politics to the Cafe, but we are going to try this as a trial. This thread is for talkback and discussion concerning the 2008 Elections, Presidential and otherwise. As someone very involved in politics, I will be the moderator of this discussion and take responsibility for everything that goes on here. This will be the ONLY thread dealing with politics on Toon Zone unless I or another Cafe mod says otherwise. If it gets out of hand, we're just never going to bring it back again.

    The rules for this discussion are as follows:

    1) Do NOT start ideological debates. This means that that if someone differs on a certain subject with you, you cannot respond with a retort on their ideology. They believe what they want, and you probably won't be able to change their minds either way. If there is a back and forth on this I will give ONE warning to the thread and otherwise, you will GET a warning and this thread will be closed.

    2) Do NOT go off on ideological RANTS. This means you can't just preach about, let's say, abortion, and how terrible it may be or how we need it. You can make a quick point like "I believe this," and have maybe a sentence or two max to back it up, but that's IT. Do not go crazy and spout your beliefs here. That's not what this thread is for or about. You will be warned if you do this, right away.

    3) This thread is to discussion the election and election-related news. Please try and keep on topic so we can keep this thread around. I like politics, and I want to make it part of the Cafe again, but I won't hesitate to take it away if it goes off topic or of the aforementioned things happen too often.

    4) Please keep things CIVIL. I don't want to have to warn people AT ALL, it's not what I like to do, but if you break a rule, or get nasty, I will do it. Be nice, polite, and follow the general Toon Zone rules.

    With that out of the way, discuss away. Talk about your favorite candidates, the election and how it will effect the country, who you think is going to win. Why you like or dislike certain candidates (you can argue politely about this), and so on. This thread is mainly to raise political awareness and to get all of you over 18 to the polls! Enjoy, but keep things under control.

    Thanks!
     
    #1 Zach Logan, Nov 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2007
  2. SirLemming

    SirLemming a playa in a world of NPCs

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    God bless you for willing to attempt this. You are a braver man than I.







    My thoughts on the election: very few. I feel obligated, as a citizen, to exercise my right to vote, so I will. And I'm registered as a Republican, so in all likelihood that's probably where my vote will fall. But do I honestly, personally, feel like it matters? That I need to pick a side and support it to the death? I'd have to say no. I'll go with whomever I deem to be the least of the evils because it's the logical thing to do.

    Maybe it's just that I'm not "a very political person". I have little interest in channeling my desire for change through the government. They seem to do whatever they want anyway. And if I get them to make some law that supports my view, what victory is that? I don't really even care about that. I care more about getting regular people to agree on stuff, because there are far more of them, and ultimately they're who control the direction of our nation and our world. Public opinion is really more powerful than any one figure, and probably even the several hundred who run this place.

    There are people out there who really get into politics and really understand the government's impact on society, and I wish them the best as they sort this stuff out. Somebody has to do it. But that somebody is not me. I feel I'm doing my part by just talking to everyday people in everyday situations to try to reach some sort of consensus on all these confusing issues.


    I mean, that's hard enough.
     
  3. Rolling Cloud

    Rolling Cloud ...too early....

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    Zach, you're either really brave or really crazy.

    I think a democrat should get into office this time around. It would be very interesting to see happen.

    And, I wish maybe that could end this damn war already, it's been long enough. Sheesh. DX
     
  4. mookie75

    mookie75 Active Member

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    I'm basically unimpressed with everyone that both sides have to offer for this election. No one really seems very "Presidential" to me. Of course, I wouldn't want to base my decisions solely on that, but it is something I notice as I watch them in debates.

    Also, I have nothing against the idea of a female President. However, please please please let it not be Hilary Clinton. I really don't want kids 100 years from now to be looking in their history books and reading about how Hilary Clinton was the first female President in the history of this country. I don't agree with most of her views because she's on the wrong side of the fence for me, but beyond that she also just doesn't seem like the one who deserves to have that great honor.

    There, that's all I really have to say about this election. I'll keep an eye out to see how long it takes before this thread is closed because I highly doubt that telling people to behave in the first post is actually going to get them to behave......not for long anyway.... :shrug:
     
  5. PC!

    PC! lolwut?

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    I'm not much of a political person, but having either the first African American or female president would be pretty neat.
     
  6. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Uncreative Hack

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    There's not really a whole to say about this. The Republicans are so heavily reviled after the last 8 years that the only real election here is whose going to win the Democratic primary. To this end I say... Hillary/Barack in '08, start embracing it.
     
  7. SirLemming

    SirLemming a playa in a world of NPCs

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    Now see, if David Palmer were real, I would vote for him in a heartbeat, regardless of party stance. And certainly regardless of race.



    Then again, if he were real I wouldn't have the luxury of watching his behind-the-scenes ethics and decision-making skills on 24. So who really knows, huh?


    I'm not sure about that. They were pretty reviled in 2004, too. If anything, I would say the lack of Bush might give them a slightly better chance. Then again, you do have to add Katrina on to it. But aside from that, I feel like nothing much has changed.


    It might end it more quickly. But I think it will ultimately go for just about as long either way, though no one will ever be able to say for sure. It's kind of hard for even the president to determine when this thing will end, at this point.
     
  8. Master Moron

    Master Moron Active Member

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    Yeah, I don't think most democrats like Hilary. I can't believe some people think she actually has a chance to win. I think the worst possible choice would be if it comes down to Rudy Guiliani versus Hilary Clinton. Both candidates are so awful, I don't know who I would vote for.
     
  9. Anyone00

    Anyone00 The Moltar-Snork

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    It's very sad when the candidate I find most palatable also has most of the Tin Foil Hat Brigade behind him: Ron Paul.
     
  10. Master Moron

    Master Moron Active Member

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    Yeah, I like him too. But, it seems like he's also popular among white supremacists...
     
  11. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
    Staff Member Moderator

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    That is looking more likely by the hour. The official nominees have always been either who has the most campaign money, who performs the best in polls, or both. It's been Hillary and Rudy at the top of those areas for months.

    And I agree with Dalek: when one party has control long enough, they gain enough rope to hang themselves and the other party takes control. Until they hang themselves, and the Circle of Life continues.

    It's interesting. One big factor in election results is image, and one is more likely to get The Seat if the average man can imagine having a beer with him. The Democrats have this bad habit of nominating people that come off as snobby or untrustworthy, and a LOT of people don't trust Hillary. But this time, the number one issue is the war, and THIS time, people want it over. The Senate got a large rush of Democrats last year because of this very issue. Rudy has said he'd keep the occupation going. And that might end things for him.
     
  12. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    Whoo! This should be fun.

    How do you guys feel about the Hillary and the debate dust-up? I really mind how Tim Russert, probably the best mainstream journalist on TV, got attacked by her people simply because he did his job and asked tough questions. And then Wolf Blitzer does a decent but unconfrontational job and we get statements from the Clinton campaign about how that debate was "fair." Memo to media: your job isn't to play nice and have campaigns like you. I'm disappointed Blitzer wasn't more aggressive in general, considering how he was talking before about how things would be harder in the general election.

    Anyhow, the race is pretty interesting right now. Obama's behind but him taking Iowa is not at all out of the question, so I think anything can happen. I think commentators are right when they say that he not only can't afford mistakes, but needs to turn in great performances between now and primary season. Personally, I want Obama to get nominated. I don't know that he's ready to be President, but if we have a Democrat as President I sure don't want 8 years of Clinton's hubris. Obama's also honest, unlike Hillary. Hillary will state a position 2 or 3 different ways. Obama will just flat out say he doesn't pay enough taxes and neither do you. He's got the guts to actually run on his platform without fear.

    For the GOP, I'm in the camp that says this is also all up in the air. Giuliani is the national frontrunner but is behind in every primary state up until Flordia, and nationally he's been slowly but steadily losing his lead for months as more people find their own candidate.

    Romney polls badly nationally but is doing well in the primary states, which I think is a problem. Romney strikes me as a very generic politician, and I think that it takes some very wishful thinking to believe he's going to be ideologically consistent throughout a theoretical Romney term...perhaps Romney supporters have that "audacity of hope"? :p

    Thompson comes off as a guy who would be a decent President--not great, but decent--if he actually stood a chance of winning. He's a victim of drastically overhyped expectations, though. His only hope is South Carolina, but I don't see that working for him after he's underperformed in Iowa and NH.

    Then we have Mike Huckabee, who doesn't exactly lead in money but is VERY close to Romney in Iowa. In a recent poll among those that will definitely vote in Iowa, there is a mere 1% difference between Romney and Huckabee. It wouldn't be a fatal blow, but in my opinion if Romney loses Iowa after all the investment he placed there he's going to be in serious trouble. When analyzing this stuff one must always remember that momentum matters and that victory and defeat can and will change the polls.

    Finally, we have McCain. A lot of people wrote him off a long time ago, but he's in a decent position in New Hampshire and could make a play in that state. Besides being the statesman of this race and, in my opinion, by far the most simultaneously strong and prudent leader we could elect, he also polls the best for the general election. Both America and the GOP would both be far better off for choosing him. He has money issues, but so does Huckabee. He has issues those on the right don't like, but Giuliani is more to the left and is a serious contender so I don't see the problem here. Heck, Huckabee is attacked by some as the definition of a big government conservative. Instead of looking for Mr. perfect, people should be looking for (a) the best leader and then (b) someone idelogically closest to themselves. If enough people aren't wooed by Romney and Giuliani hemmorages some more support to McCain, I think we could have a come-from-behind victory. There's a rumor he might forego Iowa and focus completely on NH, which I think would be a smart move.

    My dream general election match: Obama vs. McCain.
     
    #12 GWOtaku, Nov 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2007
  13. Dogbert

    Dogbert I Don't See Gravity

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    Thanks, Zach, for having the guts to volunteer for this task. It'll be nice having a thread for a non-hostile election discussion (assuming nothing goes horribly wrong). Most political discussions elsewhere end up becoming either the "Republicans suck" message board or the "Democrats blow" forum, and I have faith TZ'ers are above that.

    I'm not so sure about that. Sure, if you poll the American people right now, they are going to choose "democrat" over "republican" if those are the two options you give them. However, unnamed democrats always tend to do better than named democrats. Once we get down to two candidates (four counting the potential VPs), moderates and those only slightly attached to either side will stop looking at the party and start looking at the candidates.

    It'll be an uphill battle for the GOP, but I wouldn't write either side out at this point. Just look how Huckabee went from 1% to being a serious candidate within a couple months (coincidence, or the Colbert bump?). Clinton's lead has shrunken quite a bit recently too. I personally think it's anyone's game right now. There are a few candidates on both side that are long shots (okay, very long shots), but the quick upsets in the polls indicate anything can change. Especially with six weeks left before the first votes are cast and nearly a year before the general election.
     
  14. Zach Logan

    Zach Logan We are Maji!

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    Do you have the quotes on that, I haven't heard those statements from the Senator's campaign.


    Yes, it is the Colbert bump.
     
  15. FireStarterLE

    FireStarterLE You don't want to see us mad

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    so far I'm not liking any of the candidates for a variety of reasons

    with that being said, if I could have I would have given Colbert my mark ... but for now, I'm not really sure which direction I'll be going
     
  16. Cassie Star

    Cassie Star I have no gender.

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    There is only one candidate I like so far...

    and he's not in my registered party. I'll feel terrible voting outside of it next year.
     
  17. Captain Zechs

    Captain Zechs Active Member

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    My teacher said that if the elections were to be held now, Hilary would have a 75% chance of winning. So, assuming this is true, I think she will take it next year provided she does nothing to jeopardize her chances.
     
  18. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    No official statements, although according to The Hill Mark Penn told supporters on a conference call that Russert's driver license question was misleading and that other candidates got an easy break in comparison. While not a member of the campaign officially as far as I know Bill Clinton also took on Russert, calling a separate question of his breathtakingly misleading (A conterargument can be found here). So there was apparently some damage control going on in the form of attacking Russert.
     
    #18 GWOtaku, Nov 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2007
  19. Chris Wood

    Chris Wood Desslar

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    An presidential election thread with no discussion of ideology...

    Hmm... OK, I can do this... Urnh! Ack! Don't give up... Ungh! Come on...

    Democracy... good?

    Oh well, I tried.
     
  20. peacebyanymeans

    peacebyanymeans HORRIBLE FOR EVERYONE

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    I'm going to be 'that guy' and say "I support Ron Paul."

    He sticks to the constitution. What's not to like?
     
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