"Once Upon A Time" Season Seven Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Entertainment Board' started by Fone Bone, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time "Hyperion Heights"

    I think they just should have ended things after season six. It's just that with another new curse and things horrible again, I feel like all of the forward momentum the show reached in the previous 6 seasons seems to have been erased. And that bums me out.

    On the plus side Hook and Gold being partners looks like it could lead interesting places. And Regina's new persona of Roni is not terrible. But I miss the rest of the cast and wish we had been given a proper finale last year. **1/2.
     
  2. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time “A Pirate’s Life”

    THIS episode should have been titled “Swan Song”. A pity the title was already used in season five. They also could have used it for the terrible musical episode instead. Hindsight, man. Hindsight.

    This was great. It was SO great, I did a complete 180 on my opinion of the worthiness of the season. At first I thought it was dumb Imaginary Universe Hook shows up and answers that call. If Once is gonna do a Multiverse concept, that is a bad idea. Because that means ALL Hooks should have shown up. And ALL Emmas and Reginas. Fortunately since neither Emma or Regina were a genuine part of the imaginary fairytale, it actually tracks that those two characters didn’t heed the call other. It’s a random coincidence that the particular cast members they used in that story meant that they could create a second Captain Hook for this season, and have the original still have his happy ending with Emma. Who says the Universe is badly designed? And don’t tell me the writers planned that, because I won’t believe you.

    And it’s the fact that our Hook and Emma still get that happy ending, which is why I’m glad they are using the second Hook. Like Regina and Henry, the second Hook is an “I Want” character, which is good for fairytales. Somebody who earned their happy ending should not be on this show. It’s somebody who has something in their life missing who should. And that’s Second Hook, Henry, and Regina. Ironically, I do not believe Rumplestiltskin actually properly earned his happy ending back in Season 6, so I do not object to him being present either. He did not deserve Belle, and I’m fine with the idea that he couldn’t keep her.

    Is Hook 2’s daughter Cinderella? How would that work exactly and why would that have happened due to the Curse never being cast? Is the different Enchanted Forest we are currently in run in a different timeframe? It’s a different Universe, so it’s possible it’s also the future. That doesn’t track with Once Upon A Time In Wonderland’s theories about the impossibility of time travel, but Once actually broke that rule pretty quickly once Wonderland was over. Whatever happened to Will Scarlett and the Red Queen anyways? I need Wonderland closure, Once!

    Is Rumple secretly a good cop undercover and pretending to be a bad cop? I hope so, because it makes no sense for a dirty cop to want to work with an honest one. Either Hyperion Rumple has a master plan, or he’s stupid. We’ll find out which, I’m guessing within the next two weeks.

    SO glad Jennifer Morrison got a “Special Guest Star” credit. I believe she’s the first guest star who has gotten that privilege. I actually would have been a bit outraged had been been listed alphabetically in the guest cast as every single guest star ever was before this. Even this show knew that would be wholly inadequate.

    Why did Hook and Regina not want to tell Henry about Emma’s “condition”? Simply to worry the audience. And that’s not cool. If they weren’t actually going to give Emma and Hook an unhappy ending, they shouldn’t have dangled the idea that they might. It still would have been a surprise had they not so blatantly jerked us around.

    Great episode. Back on-board. ****.
     
  3. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time "The Garden Of Forking Paths"

    The episode title sounds like a curse word on The Good Place.

    Not much to report this week except to theorize that Rumple's dirty cop dealings may not be as dirty as first appeared. He might actually be a legit check on the Evil Stepmother's power by what he is doing.

    Part of me also thinks Cinderella should have actually tried to steal Henry's heart. It's protected, and in no danger from being removed. I get the writers wanted to keep the character of Cinderella "pure", but it would have been an interesting twist. ***.
     
  4. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time "Beauty"

    That was literally, the finest episode the series ever produced.

    And that compliment doesn't mean nothing. As infuriating as this show often is, when it gets right down to it, it's actually decent, (usually) and has its share of great episodes. This one dwarfs them all.

    I was resisting the sequel season, because I was upset that some of the characters would not get the happy endings they should have earned at the end of the series. The sequel took the opposite tack. It GAVE those characters happy endings. Definitive ones. This is not a side tangent spin-off like Wonderland that will go back to the show we know and love once the arc is over. That era of the show, with those specific characters, is actually over.

    Belle's fate was amazing, and beautiful, and brilliant. She gets the happy ending she always wanted and deserved. But because of Rumple's choices in his former life, he does not get to share in it the way he should. She gets the happy ending that he is denied and has yet to earn. And yet... he DID throw away the dagger of his own volition. The old Rumple couldn't even do that much. The fact that he wants to change for the first time ever means that a happy ending of Immortality in Heaven (which is a quantifiable reality on this show) is something to not only strive for, but a goal he clearly has the ability to someday reach.

    I'm guessing the Guardian is Henry. He was prophecized to be Rumple's undoing all the way back in season three, but even back then, I suspected that Rumple had completely misread that prophecy. Henry isn't there to ultimately kill or defeat Rumple. What his evil self would consider his eventual "undoing", is what current Rumple would recognize as his salvation. Henry is not destined to destroy Rumplestiltskin. He is destined to redeem him. Only the Author has the power to take on the power of the Dark One, and defeat it once and for it. And I no longer feel like the writers dropped that idea so as not to make the show messy, and overly complicated, and make Rumple seem like less of a monster. I now think the show has always been building to that, and the flashforward means we get to see the culmination of the idea 15 seasons earlier than we otherwise would have. Suddenly, the show's frustrating storytelling regarding Rumplestiltskin's slides back and forth from hero to villain, seem less awful upon knowing the final resolution. It was always that he was supposed to be redeemed, but the show HAD to spin its wheels a bit on that to keep going. Because of the flashforward, the show no longer has to do that, and it is all the better for it. I personally think it is amazing for it.

    How do you know Rumple has changed? He completely respects Belle's wish not to heal or de-age her, without a moment's hesitation. He has changed, and in a way he never did before. He is willing to accept Belle's promise of love and happiness, without trying to control that outcome himself. He trusts that Belle's goodness will see them both through. And I love the character for that, and for the first time ever.

    I think the teacup and the bullet worked. Belfry had better watch out.

    Upon second glance, Henry's curse is probably the best curse (and by that, I mean worst) the show has ever done, especially because Henry is the new Savior character, who needs to bring back the Happy Endings. The dead family adds a complication Emma did not have. The thing is, part of Emma WANTED to believe Henry's fantastic story. It means she had parents who loved her, and a family she could spend the rest of her life with. Henry's curse is so brilliant and brutal because he doesn't WANT to believe the truth the way Emma did. Every time Lucy utters the truth to him, she is spitting on the memory of his dead wife and daughter. Even to entertain the idea that they aren't real is abhorrent to Henry. And frankly, it should be. I would not be surprised that after seeing those graves, the next time Lucy goes on about this particular theory, Henry gets incredibly and scarily enraged at her for spitting on his love one's memories, and denying him his very real pain. I would also not be surprised if I completely agreed with him for doing that.

    The series has had its ups and downs, but it's better for planning, if not the endgame for the franchise, then at least portraying the endgame for the characters we already knew and loved. This episode and this season is narratively satisfying in a way the series has never been before. And I am currently amazed and grateful that this show finally made me a believer again. *****.
     
  5. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time "Greenbacks"

    As I was watching that, I kept thinking the episode was overreaching. That it couldn't really pull the Princess and the Frog concept off. And I won't lie. It's not perfect. The food truck is suitably lame, and I feel that trying to jam the plot of a movie set in earlier 20th Century America into the Enchanted Forest didn't fit, especially since they kept most of the voodoo tropes. But you what? It's okay. The Princess And The Frog subverted the actual Princess and the Frog Fairy Tale. The difference there is that the audience knew that going in. They sold an equal number of Tiana frog plushes as they did Tiana Princess dolls when that movie was released. It was sort of like Yoda in Empire and the whole concept of The Truman Show. Everybody already knew the big secret going in.

    Which is what I liked about the twist of the entire frog mythos being unrelated to Tiana. It surprised me. Tiana turning into a frog in the cartoon should have surprised me, but marketing made sure it did not. This gave me the genuine amusement at the trope being subverted that I would have liked to have been able to enjoy from the movie.

    Just based on that ending, I'm betting Druzilla not only cast the Curse, but is the Big Bad of the season. The only question in my mind is how much Victoria knows. Because it turns out she knows a lot less than I thought.

    I'm glad they found the picture this episode. It was getting a bit ridiculous having to ignore the genuine chemistry between Roni and Henry that is generated between their adult actors because they are mother and son. You have her making a joke to hold his hand in the bathroom, and it's not flirty, it's disturbing. Whatever happens next, I'm pretty sure those kind of jokes are going to stop, and Henry and Roni are gonna cool it with each other a bit. I couldn't go through the season dreading a drunken hook-up.

    And I'm not joking about that. Angel made me that jaded. And I tend to think that all TV is that bad. And it's not like it's the not first disturbing ship idea the show would ever do. Rumple sleeping with (and impregnating Belle) in season five without telling her he was the Dark One strikes me as an equally gross idea. So I'm just glad that avenue of "interesting storytelling" seems to be closing.

    Anastasia. Is it possible the Not-So-Wicked Stepsister is the Red Queen? Is that what Alice has to do with all this? This would be a LOT easier to follow and make actual Wonderland connections, had they not recast Sophie Lowe. The show seems to do wrong by Wonderland a lot. Dropping Michael Socha was bad enough. Then they recast Jafar last season from the irreplaceable Naveen Andrews. And now this. Once doesn't make things easy for continuity nerds.

    This should not have worked, and yet weirdly, it sort of did. My impression was favorable. ***1/2.
     
  6. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time "Wake Up Call"

    I think the handwriting thing is what is damning for Roni. You could almost explain everything else. But now she knows something's up.

    I love that Rumple no longer has his goblin look in the new Enchanted Forest. It shows he really has changed.

    I honestly think Druzilla waking Regina was smart. Because Roni's life seemed much better and less complicated than Regina's. She was the only one in the curse who was better off. Now she is exactly as pained as she should be, while knowing she can't do anything about it. What horrible thing happened that made it so Regina doesn't want the Curse undone? Henry's death? Because if that's so, I don't understand how a curse could be keeping him alive.

    Good week. ****.
     
  7. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Once Upon A Time "Eloise Gardener"

    The idea that Alice is Hook's daughter doesn't hold up as well as it should, simply because Wonderland's Alice should be the one attached to the Wish World. They set up in the premiere that Hyperion Heights has different versions of the same characters, but Wish World's Alice should be Sophie Lowe. It doesn't follow the rules established to be someone else.

    I like that Imposter Rap was introduced holding a frying pan.

    And yeah, it's pretty clear Rumple is now awake and trying to fix things. Like Regina, I'm betting he doesn't want the curse broken, but I think he's trying to hold things together now that he knows the truth.

    I liked this one. ****.

    Once Upon A Time "Pretty In Blue"

    Like that Nick is Jack and that the Jack in this realm is a boy and a good guy. I also like the idea that Henry instantly trusts him.

    Weaver isn't budging with Regina. I think Roni's right that he is faking for another reason. He wouldn't have paused upon the word "Belle" if he wasn't.

    I think Regina's next move when she gets back is to go to Lucy. As crazy as the story sounds, she would be better off collecting all of the people who believe it. Because Lucy does, she's a very good potential ally, whether she's just a kid or not.

    Predict Zelina is in San Francisco.

    We're taking a few weeks off until December. I can live with that ending until then. ****.
     

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