1. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Just in time for Halloween, enter for a chance to win a $50 Gift Card from FUN.com! Details here.
    Dismiss Notice

[O/T]WWII what if

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by Psycho Fox, Oct 28, 2001.

  1. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Late in WWII the German Luftwaffe devloped a long range bomber specially designed to fly from Spain to NYC nonstop. The plan was to force the US into a peace treaty. The prototype successfully flew to NYC but it wasn't carrying any bombs since it was only a test run thus the pilot got cold feet and turned around a few miles before the coast line.

    Nothing came of this since by the time they got a hand full of the long range bombers it was too late in the war to use them.

    So here is my what if. If they were able to make enough bombers would the plan have worked, would it have forced the US into a peace treaty? What other effects would it have had on the war?
     
  2. I.R Joey

    I.R Joey Yep my face got stuck this way

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well it might have dragged the war on for longer, and may have resulted in more U.S casualties, but I'm not sure if it would have ensured victory. It may have just strengthened American resolve like Pearl harbor (or Sept. 11 2001) making them want to fight harder. I mean look at the London bombings, and add to the fact that the Soviet's where pushing in on the East.
     
  3. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have a point but it would have exposed the fact that NYC had no air defence since the US back then though it was imposible for Germany to attack the US since they didn't have any aircraft carriers. Thus the US would have underestimated 2 enemies greatly in the same war. People might lose a bit of faith in the US military after that.
     
  4. Maxie Zeus

    Maxie Zeus Upside Down
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    6,795
    Likes Received:
    1
    No. Whatever the weaknesses in the US air defense system at the moment, it would have been easily rectified. The US had control of the Atlantic sea lanes and a massive naval presence. It would not have been hard to station a screen of patrol ships at a range to detect incoming bomber fleets, and to redeploy air units to intercept.
     
  5. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well US would have needed to get a radar system ASAP pointed towards the alantic. Halifax had one at the time but it could only detect them if they where that far north. It would take some time to set up. The long ranger bomber where also fast since used jet engines plus Germany already had long range jet fighters that could be used to escort them all the way. Meaning a decent fighter group would had to have been put together near NYC fast. The fighter group in Halifax could not have protected NYC and germany did have the technology to really drag on the war.
     
  6. James

    James Administrator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 5, 2001
    Messages:
    31,316
    Likes Received:
    3
    Actually Jet Engines had very little use during by the end of the war since Hitler had been unwilling to fund the project since conception. With such little forward thinking being put into Germany's potential air strength, neither the use of a bomber or jet fighter would have been likely to have made any impact near the end of the war. Potential for a superior airforce was there, but heavily under-norished.... thanks to the lack of foresight by the upper echelon.

    Although, in reference to your actual point which seems to be, 'but what IF...', then no, even if they had committed to long range bombing I still don't think it would have made any affect. Bombing was a regular occurance through the the UK during the early 40's, and while it hindered (and one point almost totally crippled) the British military machine, the country pulled through pretty much on it's own. London survived. The US being such a larger country with far more resources, even if the long range bombers could have made it across the ocean, the impact on even one city the size of New York would be negliable as far as the war was concerned.

    I work with many elderly people who have commented how they refuesed to let the bombing of London is the 40's affect their life. You'd go to school with a friend in the morning, after lunch, you'd never see him again. It was just a part of life. One lady recalled how she arrived at London Liverpool Street train station just as it had taken several hits. The only change was the platform they connected with. They ignored the fire and the damage and just got on with what they needed to do. This sort of courage is commendable and I'd imagine this attitude would have been reflected by other countries like the US if they had been put into the same situation.

    With such troubled times, I'd like to hope that we can look to the past and those of such experience as guidence through the fear that many people are feeling at the moment. If these people could live a normal life and ignore the terror of being physically bombed day by day, surely we must follow example and not give into fear.

    Apologies if i've got to preachy...
     
  7. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have a point but a few jet fighters made it into mass production. The HE 162 VolksJager is a prefect example they made lots of these but it had a wooden frame so it was very fragile and the jet engine could rip it apart on full power. The next was the Me 262 this was a decent jet fighter but they higher ups perfered the cheaper HE 162 still they made a few dozen of tthe Me 262

    and finally the Go 229 their long rang jet fighter only a few of these where made it was suppose to complement the long range jet bomber. Instead the few they did have they straped 2*2,205 pound bombs under the wings and dive bombed ships in the Alantic
    You have a point the US probably would not have backed down becouse of it, still some might wonder why NYC didn't create a local fighter group after pearl harbour when Halifax did. Halifax did not for fear of long range fighters but sea planes carring bombs refuled in the alantic via a milkcow (supply u-boat) thus is is clear that NYC was not really safe and was just lucky nothing happened to it during WWII
    Again you have a good point.
     
  8. Maxie Zeus

    Maxie Zeus Upside Down
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    6,795
    Likes Received:
    1
    SJJ fills in holes in what I wanted to say.

    First, the Anglo-American bombing raids on Germany had virtually no effect on Axis production; German strikes against the US would have to have been made with a far smaller bomber fleet on a far larger and more dispersed manufacturing economy. From a material point of view, a German campaign would have been totally wasted.

    So the entire question is if the bombing of New York or Washington would have a psychological effect. Would sustained bombing of those cities have forced the US out of the war? No, if for no other reason than because the US would have seen that it didn't force the British out and no Yank could have stomached the thought of running away from what the Brits withstood so well. If anything, it would probably have stiffened US resolve.

    The technical points I made were conditional upon the progress of the war. By the time Germany was geared to produce a long-range air force the Allies had control of the seas and were on the continent. It would not have taken long to throw a screen up against the attacks. The home front certainly would not have cracked knowing that Allied armies were closing in rapidly against the German heartland.

    Of course, if you're assuming this air force to be available to Hitler in early 1942, that changes things considerably.
     
  9. don Jaime

    don Jaime Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Slightly different question: was the US already in bombing range of Luftwaffe bombers based in Norway? I had understood that German aircraft had the potential to fly over the Arctic and Canada to reach not just New York but also inland cities like Pittsburg and Chicago. We already have an answer to its impact, but did I hear that wrong?
     
  10. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well the raids on cities did little but the Allied bombing raids took out a sub pen that held the new U-boat that could stay underwater and didn't need to come on the surface. Bombing raids also put production delays on tanks and such.
    Again you have a point but if the docks get distroyed that means the goods got to go to another dock and if they also hit Halifax then there might be problems with the supply line to the UK and to the troops.
     
  11. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes and no. Yes Zeppliens could cross the Alantic it could also cross the artic. Yes Germany did play with the idea of using Zeppliens as aircraft carriers but they abandoned the idea since they couldn't solve a big problem. With bombs,fule,rockets,ammo,ect plus the Hydrogen it blows up real nice.

    As for a long range bomber going north from Norway. Hell no it would be suicide. Allied pliots trained in Canada so the bombing mission would be up aginst countless green fighters and since the top aces went back to train they would also be up against a hand full of top notch battle hardened aces.
     
  12. don Jaime

    don Jaime Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    0
    I never said it would be easy. Still, most of such a trip would present weather conditions more challenging - the DEW line was a creation of the Cold War. I'm figuring Nazi bombers wouldn't face opposition until about 100 miles from the Canada/US border. Then there's the question of how you get back after po'ing both countries without refueling....
     
  13. Psycho Fox

    Psycho Fox Toonix Guru

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well they could put a milk cow in the Hudson Bay but then all the bombers have to be sea planes. A real problem is the traing fields since they are up north out of the way and they will have to pass them twice when they are comming back the traing bases would have enough time to switch to live ammo and give the green pilots simple instructions. Plus the top of the aces retired into teachers for combat pilots so you would have them as well. One the plus some allied pilots would be able to get alot of target pratice with the Nazi's bombers if they tried it :D
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum