News and Politics 2017 (General Political Discussion thread)

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Jan 3, 2017.

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  1. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Brazille's comments have been pretty much debunked. She was completely exaggerating and Joy Reid did a particularly masterful take-down. Why Brazille chose a week before a huge election to drop this stuff is something I'll never know.
     
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  2. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    The thing I just don't believe it, I just find it too hard to believe the DNC would push so hard and force so many members to endorse a candidate the right wing media spent the last eight years attacking unless something like this was the situation.
     
  3. Nobodyman

    Nobodyman Well-Known Member

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  4. Kindness King

    Kindness King Active Member

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  5. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    Seems pretty on the nose given the GOP's rush to appease the NRA anytime a shooting occurs and shouting nonsense like "prayer will stop the shootings."



    Also, looks like the GOP and their friends are up to their usual dirty tricks to try and stifle the vote today on Election Day. Make sure to stay aware and don't trust anything that isn't from your state's official election board site.



    Just remember this important advice about today's election.

     
  6. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    This is just one guy after the other losing control and going insane with a gun.
    It's not like no one ever loses control outside the US, it's just that they're less likely to find a gun before getting back their senses...
     
  7. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Yup ban all guns. Oh wait, this guy bought them illegally. Oh wait, the shooting was stopped by a regular citizen who had a gun on him. You didn’t mention those parts.
     
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  8. Kindness King

    Kindness King Active Member

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    @DonnaBrazile: I Asked About Dossier Funding Before Election, “I Was Told I Did Not Need To Know”





    Gets the noggin jogging....
     
  9. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    If you couldn't buy guns at all this wouldn't have happened either. And what happens in the next shooting when a regular citizen starts firing wildly at people cause they think someone is the shooter? You didn't mention those parts.

    Anyways, I never said to ban guns, but why is it so difficult for us as a country to just examine why we have these major issues that no other first world nation has? Instead our weak-willed and spineless leadership diverts to something worthless and downright patronizing to the dead and those they leave behind that we should be praying for the problem to stop. Action is necessary, not refusals to accept we need to stop this from happening.

    Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    He bought it from a a sporting goods store in San Antonio in April 2016. Your point? You are making it look like it was extremely hard for him to get a gun illegally, but he just bought it in some store. Isn't that what this entire discussion is about? He can buy whatever he wants wherever he wants, even if he is said not to.
     
  11. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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  12. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    Election successes in VA as a blue wave takes over the state and it looks like the democrats could possibly take a majority in the state assembly for the first time in ever.

    This is likely a bellwether of things to come in 2018 as the top two concerns of VA citizens were healthcare and guns and not for taking away accessible healthcare for all and bowing to their NRA masters like our conservative contingent here would prefer to see.
     
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  13. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    All I know is that if no one else had a gun, a lot more people would have died. A good guy with a gun meant that more people got to go home that day. And by the way, I'm not against common sense gun reform. The problem is that the extremists on both sides will not allow an honest discussion to come forth on gun control. Instead, everyone rushes to their partisan battle stations and screams at each other for a couple of weeks until the media stops covering the mass shooting and everyone forgets about it.

    He had been dishonourably discharged from the military, meaning that legally he should not have been able to have a gun. The fact he passed a background check is due to a mistake made by the military, but suppose he failed? It's not hard to get a gun illegally. Illegal guns are a major reason Chicago has so many shootings, despite the fact they have tight gun control. Do you really think someone who is capable of committing mass murder is going to be deterred by gun laws?

    Also, to those who think that the Democrats winning elections in VA, NJ and NY are a sign that the country is turning against Trump, remember that those are all states that Trump lost in the general election.
     
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  14. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Didn't expect to win in Virginia. 2016 made me cynical.

    As for the gun control debate, I've sort of lost hope there too. I'm at the point where I feel like just completely conceding to the metal penis extender fetishists. All of these mass shootings suck. But there is no political will to change the law, because that would apparently trample on the rights of people to maybe someday murder people in the government who deserve it, and that right is apparently sacrosanct. I've just realized that the murders of our children and loved ones is just the price the rest of us have to pay for gun owners to enjoy that right.

    As far as I'm concerned, the debate's over. The people who oppose unnecessary murder lost. This is our new normal.

    I'd have to look at the crosstabs of the results, but a better metric would be to check the results to how Hillary did. If the Dems who won did better than she did, the evidence of a Blue wave in 2016 is more than circumstantial.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that according to a recent poll, Trump has lost major support in literally all 50 states. Even the states that he currently enjoys overwhelming support. Obama perhaps losing 5-10 percentage points of support in say Ohio or Florida says one thing. Trump losing 12% in Idaho says another. Even if the rest of the state loves the guy, that is NOT a good sign.
     
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  15. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Okay, looking over the Virginia crosstabs, Hillary won the state by 5 points. That's respectable, but no big deal. Northam won it by 10 points in the biggest blow-out the Dems had in the state in over a generation. Also, the Virginia House of Delegates, notoriously gerrymandered for Republicans, appears to miraculously now be tied, in the election before redistricting, which is more than I ever hoped or expected on our best day.

    For the record, I kind of think Northam was a crap candidate. He made a poopton of unforced errors (such as the timing of the Confederate pick-up truck ad) and he had the charisma of a warm cabbage. And he still won in a walk.

    This was definitely a referendum on Trump. And the verdict was completely negative.
     
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  16. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    Best way to stop that is to get out the vote and make him suffer loss after loss (also getting him to prison and then the wall or better yet, the gallows for being a traitor to the nation would be the perfect end, but I digress).

    Just today in Virginia, we've expelled the most-bigoted and hateful state rep for our first-ever transgendered elected official (she's also vocalist in a metal band) and also our first-ever socialist rep (who took out the House Majority Whip). Go good sense!

     
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  17. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    I think the Dems' campaign slogan in the next general election will be "Hindsight 2020".
     
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  18. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    You asked this question in such a statistically irrelevant way that I'm just going to turn tables and say: YES. Most of these people aren't well-known criminals but people who got insane in a short period of time.

    In 2017, there have been 52 707 gun incidents with 13 243 deaths in the United States alone. This number is way smaller in the European Union despite the fact that there are almost twice as much EU citizens than US citizens. Do you really think all of these 52 707 gun incidents would have happened with proper gun laws? Of course not. More than 1000 of those are unintentional. More than half of those are made by people who got insane in a very short period of time ("good people possessed by the devil") who wouldn't have found a gun on the illegal market.

    In the United States, you are more likely to get killed if you disagree with a relative than to get killed by a criminal you have never seen before. (about 2/3 - 1/3)

    So there are two situations.

    1) The current one. Lots and lots and lots of people are shot. A few are saved thanks to good guys with guns.

    2) A (thanks to the NRA unlikely) situation where a few people get shot due to illegal guns, and none of them gets saved by good gun owners.

    Furthermore, I think it is reasonable to say that the USA has got such a strong illegal market due to its laws. Legal and illegal go hand in hand.
     
    #898 Red Arrow :D, Nov 8, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  19. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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  20. Harley

    Harley Embarassment Ninja
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    The problem with the good guy with a gun argument is that the vast majority of people aren't well-trained enough, subjected to enough high stress, life threatening situations or are not naturally cool, calm and collected enough to keep their heads about them in these mass shooting situations. It's usually someone like this. She made a split-second decision, and she made the wrong one. She opened fire in a public place and could have hit a bystander. Unless they are a very specific type of person with sufficient training, they make mass-shooting situations worse and distract law enforcement from the actual shooter.

    Look man, I get it. I've used a rifle before and I was pretty good with it. If I lived somewhere more rural, I would probably frequent a shooting range. I'm not against gun ownership, though I have no desire to own one myself. But, I don't see how it's acceptable for civilians to own semi-automatic weapons like an AR-15. You can use the militia argument, but that's nonsense because the government has access to nuclear and biological weapons. What are semi-auto and automatic weapons going to do against those? It's for use against each other in the same way weapons manufacturers flood other regions worldwide with weapons. Tell them whoever has the most and best weapons will come out on top and let tribalism do the rest. Then, keep stoking the fires through escalation to sustain incoming revenue.
     
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