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News and Politics 2017 (General Political Discussion thread)

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
    Staff Member Moderator Reporter

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  2. CoolEric158

    CoolEric158 She rocks both ways.

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  3. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    The only way that image works is if its Batman busting into the White House to deal with Trump and his white nationalist, homophobic, women-hating Goldman Sachs cronies. I can only hope America continues to speak up against this illegitimate president.
     
  4. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to post a link, since we all know it. The Muslim ban is in effect. It doesn't affect all Muslim countries, mind you. Just ones that aren't American oil allies.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. stephane dumas

    stephane dumas Well-Known Member

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  6. Action!

    Action! Active Member

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    Iran banned U.S citizens in response to U.S banning Iran citizens.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. sun

    sun You stay, I go

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    The Muslim ban excludes countries linked to Trump's business.. Hit the link, read the story..Trump is taking care of Trump...Fortunately, more and more impeachable offenses...Hit the link for the entire article from the New York Daily News....
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    President Trump’s most recent executive order effectively bans citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. for at least 90 days — but some Muslim countries were spared from the order's blacklist, even though they have deep-seated ties to terrorism.

    Conspicuously, Trump doesn't hold any business interests in any of the countries on the list, but holds major stakes in several of those excluded from it, records show.
    _______________________________________________________________________________



    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956
     
  8. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    If he's doing things that are unconstitutional, when is Congress going to call him on it?
     
  9. ToonJay723

    ToonJay723 Bingo Bongo

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    If he stops signing bills they want passed, or if Democrats take control of congress in two years.
     
  10. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Sad but true. Guys, go on any news site and follow what's happening at airports. It's insanity, and protests are breaking out. I happen to know a guy who holds Iranian and Canadian citizenship who is currently studying at MIT. I'm assuming his time there is over. This is isn't safety, this is allowing fear to rule lives. This is a disgrace.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. sun

    sun You stay, I go

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    ...Congress is very reluctant to go after unconstitutional acts by the President..For example, the last Bush, the one before Obama, lied and did something truly unconstitutional. He approved waterboarding..which is defined as "water torture". I remember him saying, "The United States does not torture." (exact words)...Well, he approved it. He could have been tried and convicted..if Congress had the nerve to impeach him. Well, it was part of the Iraq War, and it did not have the nerve..or the desire.....(and who controlled Congress?)
    ...Bush clearly lied, and it was disgusting to those of us who believe in the Constitution as the governing document of this country. If you do not know what waterboarding is, look it up. It is torture, and is cruel and unusual punishment.
    ... But congress did not go after him. Now, sometimes, congress gets a vendetta and goes after people. Bill Clinton was indeed impeached. You would have to study the impeachment of Clinton in order to discover if what he was impeached over was worse than ..."waterboarding approved by the President"...so, Bill Clinton was impeached, and the last Bush was not. ..........
    .....So, in response to Peter Palridge's question..."When is Congress going to call him on it?"...I respond...with, "Who controls Congress?...Would a Republican Congress go after Trump?...It was a Republican Congress that went after President Bill Clinton. And in my opinion, it was over something far less important that .."waterboarding" which is torture...The Republican Congress did everything it could do to destroy Hilary Clinton.. Would those same Republicans use their power to destroy a Republican like Trump who seems to be a pathological liar?..We will see, but I doubt it...and yes, Trump lies a whole lot. and he will probably continue to lie..Will Ryan, who is speaker of the House, and Mc Connell...head of the Senate go after Trump? You tell me...
     
  12. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Some of the things Trump wants to do, the Republican establishment opposes. Ryan and McConnell have spoken out against some of his policies. They could very well impeach him in the future.

    Wow, bigots are actually WORSE in Italy than they are here. As anti-immigrant as some Americans are now, I don't think they'd stand and laugh as a foreigner drowned.
    (to read this, cancel the page mid-load so you don't get an annoying pop-up)
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...k-where-you-came-from/?utm_term=.568b6f71c9a7
     
  13. sun

    sun You stay, I go

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    Yes...they could, but in my opinion they will not. Why? It would have to be some awful lie that is so bad, or act that is so unconstitutional to put the country through it. And Trump is capable of that. But an impeachment procedure is extremely serious. I watched Bill Clinton's impeachment carefully and it was somewhat absurd. And there are Republicans in Congress who were there and know what that was, and I believe it would have to be something very evil that Trump would do to have their own party go after their leader. Yes, it could happen, but with the stuff that is going on, in my opinion, it won't. It will have to be worse..That is my opinion. Trump is a pathological liar, and I hope they get him, but at this point,...it does not look like it. But we will see..............
    I would add this..if it becomes clear that Trump has lost the ability to make clear and logical decisions based on easily seen fact for all, and he goes off on some rant about nothing...leadership might force him to resign, rather than go through impeachment..Then, Pence would be the President. To me, that is more likely than impeachment..

    EDIT #1:
    How about this???


    EDIT #2:
    President Trump’s most recent executive order effectively bans citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. for at least 90 days — but some Muslim countries were spared from the order's blacklist, even though they have deep-seated ties to terrorism.

    Conspicuously, Trump doesn't hold any business interests in any of the countries on the list, but holds major stakes in several of those excluded from it, records show.

    Friday’s executive order, signed at the Pentagon, suspends the issuing of U.S. visas or travel permits to people from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.

    Not a single American was killed on U.S. soil by citizens from any of those countries between 1975 and 2015, according to statistics tallied by the conservative-leaning Cato Institute.
    Taken from the New York Daily News....Saturday (yesterday) PLEASE NOTE THIS PARAGRAPH....starting with "Not a single American...thank you for reading this
     
    #73 sun, Jan 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2017
  14. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
    Staff Member Administrator

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    MOD Note: Sun, stop double posting. Just edit your previous posts or let others post and then post again.

    NOT a MOD Note (this is just me participating in the discussion):

    The executive order "ban on travel from terrorism countries" is largely symbolic, and it is the start of a process of cleaning up our immigration system, not the end all solution. Trump said during the campaign it is a TEMPORARY solution, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he said something like "Until we figure out what's going on here" (as in, with these Muslims coming into the country and attacking us). This was in response to the San Bernardino attack.

    And I'm getting sick of hearing about Trump's ties to countries NOT on the list. Saudi Arabia has a stable government, and in a post 9/11 world, has shown a willingness to work with us on vetting immigrants. SYRIA HAS NO FUNCTIONAL GOVERNMENT. But here we go again with "Saudi Arabia's not on the list!! It's all about the oil!!" It's the same thing we got back during the Bush years, with "Why are we attacking Afghanistan and Iraq? The hijackers came from Saudi Arabia! It's all about the oil!!" And yet, Obama sold billions in arms to Saudi Arabia over the course of his 8 years.

    The bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, wherein 189 Americans were killed happened over Scotland. I don't care if it happened overseas, that's Americans dead at the hand of Libya sponsored terrorism.

    And in regards to Iran countering by issuing it's own ban against U.S. citizens entering it's country?

    [​IMG]

    Iran is THE sponsor of Terrorism. There are hardly any contact between our countries anyway. So don't go all "Oh no, we upset Iran!!" They've been upset for 40 years.
     
  15. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    What's the point of a ban if the one country where both the 9/11 attackers (Osama Bin Laden too) and the non-US born half of the San Bernardino killers came from, Saudi Arabia, isn't effected? If you think just because the US says it has "good relations" with Saudi Arabia that they aren't a dangerous source of terrorism and radicalism, then you haven't looked at the history of the country, or investigated their role in the age-old conflict between the Sunnis and Shia (hint: they're the Sunnis). Yes, Saudi Arabia's government may be slowly moving away from extremism, but it would be a huge mistake not to realize that it is still an extreme fundamentalist theocracy, and a hotbed for radicalization (research this if you don't know). In my experience, reading the history, people who go to Saudi Arabia become more extreme in their views; it is also a place that attracts people who already hold extreme views, where they can go to find resources, patronage, and funding. And guess where that money and wealth comes from? If you answered oil, that's only half-right, as the US directly funds the wealthy elite of the nation through a variety of taxpayer foreign aid programs and arms contracts that both they and the weapons manufacturers that are selling the arms profit from. Saudi Arabia is also archenemies with Iran (the Shia), who are also a huge source of terrorism, but in my opinion, Saudi Arabia is miles more dangerous because of the money it has, the overmwhelming Muslim majority they hold (and the priorities of their terrorism), and its "relationship" with wealthy America.

    Countries can say whatever they want in an official capacity, it's what goes on inside them that matters.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #75 Dreyfus, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  16. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    Let's see how ISIS-ish Saoudi Arabia really is.

    Child marriages are legalized? Check!
    Capital punishment on blasphemy? Check!
    Capital punishment on homosexuality? Check!
    Stonings for adultery? Check!
    Hands are cut off for theft? Check!
    Undemocratic government? Check!
    They're sending terrorists to the Western world? Check!

    Wow, that must be such a great country. So much more open and Western than Iran. I can totally understand why the decision of leaving out Saoudi Arabia has zero-zilch to do with oil.
     
    #76 Red Arrow :D, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  17. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    I think it's finally dawning on him that bring President is the last job you want in the world if you have a thin skin. Reportedly he spent today curled up in a ball watching Finding Dory.

    He cant blame "the media" this time because he's getting blasted by nearly every leader of every country; SNL can't control that many minds. It's almost like going into this with no experience was a bad idea.

    And he'll screw up again, probably before the end of the week. How many more of these hits do you think Congress will take before even the Repubs turn against him? It's THEIR party he's making look bad. Impeachment would not remove the Republican majority, it would put Pence in charge -- and while not great, he at least knows not to monkey with the system and is not as unpredictable.
     
  18. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Ok @wonderfly, I'll go through your post bit by bit. There are things I agree with, things that aren't entirely accurate, and some other points I want to make. No combativeness at all, I just think you made some interesting points.

    Since 9/11, there are very few cases of Muslims coming into the country and committing attacks. The majority of radical Islamic attacks since 9/11 have come from American nationals. However, I certainly will not dispute that there is a severe problem with radical Islam. Here's my issue: Trump announced this last December. Why wait until he became president to start "figuring it out?" Why not put forward some solutions as to why this is happening before becoming president, that way you don't have to ban anyone? Fund a think tank, hire experts to work out the problem, bring in intellectuals to ponder this. I mean, he's had a year, and he always brags about his intelligence. If he has enough time to tweet what's on cable news through the past year, surely there's time to give Sam Harris or Reza Aslan a call to seriously talk about how to fix radical Islam without having to ban anyone. The fact is, there is no way Trump is going to solve radical Islam in 90 days. This was done as a campaign promise because he knew his base would like it. If he really cared about a solution, he would have suggested some this past year, or at least hired people to consider the problem.

    Okay, a warning that my response here will be pretty broad. First off, let's start with the attackers. Yes, a number of them came from Saudi Arabia, and they are not on the list. However, not all of them were Saudis, the rest came from either Egypt (not on the list), the United Arab Emirates (not on the list), or Lebanon (not on the list). Besides 9/11, look at all the other attacks on American soil. San Bernadino, Boston, Orlando, etc. None of the attackers had any ties to any of the countries listed. I can't think it's not a coincidence that none of the countries that Trump has ties to are on the list.

    Now, Saudi Arabia. I'm glad you pointed out that Obama has sold billions in arms to them, because that is one of the reasons I don't like Obama. The Saudis have committed atrocities all over the world, including in Yemen currently. And yet, Obama was only too happy to help them in this. Yemen is the poorest country in the Muslim world, and yet the US has no problem bombing them to help their buddies in Saudi Arabia. I also loath Hillary Clinton for accepting money from them. Why are they so bad? Here's a little list:
    -The punishment for being "homosexuals acts" in Saudi Arabia is death by stoning.
    -Public beheadings for prisoners are a daily occurrence
    -Women are forced to wear burkas, and are not allowed to drive, work, or exercise without a male "owner."
    -They directly fund ISIS.
    So yes, there is a deep double standard from the US in regards to Saudi Arabia, who is arguably the most immoral Middle Eastern country. They criticize other countries like Yemen, but allow the Saudis to get away with murder. And yes, oil is largely to do with it.
    Ok.
    Come on. THE sponsor of terror? They oppose ISIS, you know that, right? The Saudis support, that has been proven. Does Iran engage in terrible activities? Yes, but there's plenty of blame to go around. I don't get why you're letting Saudi Arabia off the hook. Yes, Iran did have an alliance with al Qaeda pre-9/11, but so did America. Really, America and Saudi Arabia are the ones truly responsible for creating al Qaeda and giving bin Laden power.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #78 Spideyzilla, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  19. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Bloom County has the right idea.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    I now realize that I was wrong about Donald Trump's campaign promises. I thought he was willing to say the things he did to stir up a far-right base and get himself nominated to the Republican ticket, not that he would actually do them when he got into office.

    But now that I see that he's actually trying to get these things done as president and make good on all of his promises, I can only assume that yes, he always believed everything he said. It wasn't just pandering to a scared and angry group of disillusioned Americans who were left behind by the policies of their country over the past few decades. This is just the person he is and the things he believes.

    Now some of these things are good in my view, like backing out of the TPP and fighting for American jobs. But some of them are very bad ideas, like building a 1500-mile wall and freezing refugee entries into the country. These kinds of things are done out of fear and anxiety. They are unreasonable and isolating, and never actually solve the problems they set out to deal with.

    This is a very unfortunate situation for the country, not in a "he's becoming a dictator" way (I trust our system to prevent anything like that), but more in a "he'll take us down some very wrong paths if we allow him to" one.
     

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