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News and Politics 2017 (General Political Discussion thread)

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Well....consider that we haven't had a major natural disaster in the US on the scale of Harvey alone for several years. If climate change is solely to blame, wouldn't we have seen a noticeable increase in hurricanes since Katrina, and not just in 2017?
     
  2. AnotherRandomGuy

    AnotherRandomGuy The cat's in the cradle

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    I normally really don't like posting here, but there isn't really much leeway for me not to here.

    With all due respect Peter, that's not how climate works. Nature works in cycles and depending on the climate determines how the weather is going to be.

    In other words Climate Change isn't going to increase when storms happen, but it is going to increase how severe and dangerous a storm can be.

    If it ever does reach the point where storms like Harvey are the norm, then it would be far too late for us to do anything about it.
     
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  3. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Ah, okay. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to learn.
     
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  4. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Good attitude.
     
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  5. ToonJay723

    ToonJay723 Bingo Bongo

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    So people waving around the Confederate and Nazi flags is not disrespectful to American soldiers, but taking a knee is? :confused:

    As @Peter Paltridge would say, defend this
     
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    #705 ToonJay723, Sep 24, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  6. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    This is pretty much everyone's response to this. No one's defending it.

    Here's the problem. All those dead soldiers people who think like Trump like to mention so much -- they didn't sacrifice their lives for the FLAG ITSELF. Nor the anthem, nor any piece of symbolism that wasn't intended to be literally worshipped. The flag and anthem could be anything, really. They fought and died to defend the IDEALS AND VALUES that were under attack.

    Those ideas included freedom of speech, free expression, and the ability to express dissent against the government without being punished for it. Which circles around to guys kneeling for the anthem as an act of protest. All those dead soldiers would probably say, "You do you, man." Who's really disrespecting their sacrifices? Cheeto over here.
     
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  7. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    I am appalled Trump is obsessing over this while Puerto Rico is drowning. If we had a functioning media and Congress, THAT would be the real scandal today. This is a hundred times worse than Katrina. At least Bush got off his duff eventually. Trump hasn't even acknowledge the fact an entire part of the U.S. is without power or clean drinking water. This is a nightmare.
     
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  8. Kitschensyngk

    Kitschensyngk Always never quite right

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    I respond to the controversy surrounding NFL players taking a knee during the national anthem with something I posted on Facebook a little while ago:

    Why are some people more obsessed with symbols than the meanings behind these symbols? Things like flags and anthems are just things. The ideas and concepts that these symbols represent are far more important than the symbols themselves. Just because someone chooses not to participate in a ritual based around a symbol doesn't mean that they don't believe in what the symbol stands for.
     
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    #708 Kitschensyngk, Sep 24, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  9. Wounded_Dragon

    Wounded_Dragon Active Member

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    They obsess over it because it's easier for them to do than to actually live up to the idea. It's the same way the "Christian Right" likes to try and jam religious imagery and laws everywhere and yet fail to live up to any of it.
     
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  10. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Puerto Rico still drowning, with no power or clean drinking water. Trump still not doing anything about it. Media still not reporting it.

    Congress says they'll pass a relief bill in two weeks. Hopefully people can give up drinking clean water until then.

    Seriously, this whole situation is maddening.
     
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  11. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    What a dump of a human being.
     
  12. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    I was too angry to talk about the NFL thing. And in the days prior, I've been too busy to discuss other things mentioned here.

    But I liked this article today:

    "NFL Anthem controversy begs the question: Does the Left ever want to win elections again?"

    From that article:

    "My question to the Democrats (and media) is simple: What voters in that big chunk of the country turned red do you plan to win back on a platform of kneeling for the national anthem, revoking due process, removing monuments of our founders, sympathizing with jihad, glorifying property-destroying (and journalist-punching) thugs or backing Kim Jong Un in a nuclear showdown? The more the left has ramped up its cultural war, the more their governing power has diminished. Who cares if the Affordable Care Act wiped them from the electoral map, as long as Jimmy Kimmel gets his sick burns in.

    Donald Trump’s election should have been a giant wake up call to both the media and the left that the causes they care about and blast out with their bylines are not the issues Americans care about. They may view Donald Trump’s twitter commentary as beneath the office of the presidency, but they can forgive a lot when the other party is demanding they bend the knee."

    I'm still predicting the Democrats lose big in 2018.
     
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  13. Wounded_Dragon

    Wounded_Dragon Active Member

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    So you're pro police murder then.
     
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  14. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Of course they are going to lose big, with the Congressional Gerrymander in place, and the brutal Senate map. Add in voter suppression and Russian interference and I predict a bad year for Dems. But it's not because your guys are great. It's because you guys rigged the game.
    Don't you love Trump supporters unironically telling us to ignore the culture war?
     
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  15. ToonJay723

    ToonJay723 Bingo Bongo

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    People view the American flag differently. Some see it as a symbol to our soldiers. Some people see it as the symbol of the beliefs of our founding fathers, our freedom, and the constitution. Some see it as the symbol to the government.The NFL members see the flag as the symbol of the government which is why they refuse to stand up for it.

    I think it's important for everyone to understand that the American flag means different things for different people. Just because someone isn't standing to the flag, it doesn't mean they hate our soldiers, because they don't see the flag that way. No one in the NFL said "I hate the people who lost their lives trying to fight for out freedom", they said they didn't like a government oppressing people.

    For me I see the flag as the second thing I wrote, "symbol of the beliefs of our founding fathers, our freedom, and the constitution", so that's why I will stand for it. But I understand people see it as a symbol for the government, and why they refuse to stand. I would refuse to stand too if I saw the American flag as the symbol for the government.
     
  16. Wounded_Dragon

    Wounded_Dragon Active Member

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    What drives me nuts is how many of those people whining about the kneeling were perfectly fine with all those "gun rights" protests where people walked into public places and/or private businesses (restaurants, etc) with loaded weapons. Gee, people kneeling in silent protest versus people who are a hair away from causing a bloodbath and the kneelers are the bad guys?

    Doubly disgusting how people can just belittle this protest because they're not personally affected by it. Must be nice to be able to walk by police and not have to worry about getting shot for being not-white.
     
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  17. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    It's 100% white privilege. People who complain about identity politics are never on the wrong end of it.
     
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  18. Nobodyman

    Nobodyman Well-Known Member

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    And my question to Republicans is how do you expect to win over Democrats when you condemn people for exercising their first amendment rights, glorify racists and slave-owners, support Neo-Nazis (who have committed homicide), attempt to rob poor people of health care, discriminate against immigrants based on their religion and country of origin, and deliberately and irresponsibly antagonize North Korea?

    Oh, I'm sorry. Am I being unfair or giving a misrepresentation of what the average right-leaning American believes?
     
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  19. Fone Bone

    Fone Bone Matt Zimmer

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    Here is an irony and the difference between your and wonderfly's post. You actually are not misrepresenting anything.

    Edit: Oh, and I almost missed this about wonderfly's post:

    "Removing statues of our founders."

    B.S. We are removing statues of traitors who sold this country out for the right to own another human being. The idea that ANY of these Confederate jackasses is a founder to our country in any way is frankly obscene.
     
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  20. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    Well, I am anti-"sweeping generalization", which is what that comment is.

    If anything, I would think the "Black Lives Matter" type believer would be upset with the NFL players this weekend. The players (some of them, anyway) took what was supposed to be a protest against supposed police brutality and turned it into a middle finger directed at Trump.

    All of the players, coaches and team owners that were interviewed on Sunday said that they just wanted to show they were united, and that they stood in solidarity against Trump, and that the owners wouldn't be intimidated into firing people for kneeling during the anthem. It was no longer about "Black Lives Matter", it was about Trump and about the NFL saying "we won't be intimidated into catering to what our fans want". It was all about their petty pride and loyalty to players over catering to their audience.

    My fear is, give it a few years, and there will be nobody in the stands and everyone on the field on their knees, all of them mouthing "We showed them!"

    I think you'll find most average Americans (neither right or left leaning) side with Trump on most of those issues. Therein lies the path to victory in 2018 and 2020 - the average American is sick of being told by Leftists what we can and can't believe. All of these causes, these "movements", the American people are going to vote for whoever will tell these people "That's enough out of you."
     

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