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News and Politics 2017 (General Political Discussion thread)

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    This article mentions (among other things) statistics on George W. Bush and Bill Clinton inaugurations. Bush drew 300,000 to 400,000 at his inauguration. I actually expect Trump to surpass that when the final totals come out.

    Please review my posts (with links) from the campaign thread here and here. GWOTaku and others as well.

    It was all over the media: "Trump will lose in Texas and Utah, he will cause Republicans to lose the Senate and the House, it will lead to 40 years of darkness, the dead rising from the grave, cats and dogs living together." And they were wrong. The Republicans are now stronger then they have ever been, except for possibly the 2002 mid-term elections.

    It's hard for me to debate with everyone here when I'm often the only conservative interested in debating politics (I know there are other conservatives on Toonzone, just not everyone is interested in talking politics, which is fine). So please forgive me if I don't respond to everyone.

    I'm willing to admit Trump has an ego problem, and I'll leave it at that, for now.
     
  2. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    The problem is you're so afraid of the other side that you're willing to excuse anything this guy does or says, which is disturbing. If Trump was a Democrat and said and did the exact same things, you'd be howling against him.
     
  3. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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  4. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    No because Hillary promised to exit out of it as well. This is nothing special nor a reason to support the same jerk who cut off funding to NGOs who provide reproductive health options to women. With not even one woman in the room when he signs the rule at that. Wow he really hates them, doesn't he?

    [​IMG]

    Pence watching like the woman-hating he-man he is. Gonna go back to the locker room with all those men and hang out and celebrate like men showing women their place. You know, staring at each other in the nude. That's what guys do!
     
  5. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    "Said and did the exact same things", like what? Like the media is corrupt? Washington is corrupt?

    I've said it before, but Trump was not my first choice as to whom I wanted for President this last year. But he is perhaps the best option in these perilous times we find ourselves in.

    Because Donald Trump is not the President that America deserves, but he is the President America needs right now.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    Yes, America "needs" someone who instated the richest cabinet ever to represent "all" people. Someone who is likely mentally deranged. Someone who holds a press conference to chide the media for reporting actual facts and then lies...I mean presents "alternative" facts. Someone who grabs women inappropriately. Someone who thinks Putin is someone to aspire to be like. Someone who cuts off insurance for the poor and wants to cut off arts spending because they're "Extravagant" when they amount of mere pennies the federal budget compared to a bloated and likely to grow even bigger military budget. A military that your President has said should re-invade Iraq to steal oil by the way. Just to keep that in perspective.

    I think you're so clouded by your "Christian" beliefs that Hillary was the devil that you can't even see old Scratch when he's in front of you.
     
    #46 MDawg, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2017
  7. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    Those exist in the US too?!

    Where I live the the amount of regular church visitors sank to less than 5% of the population because parents find churches 'not suitable places for kids'. My dad went from "We should all protest against abortion!! It is immoral!" to "I, uhm, don't believe in, uhm, God anymore." to "Religion is immoral! Look was ISIS is doing!" and so did most parents here.

    I always figured the same would happen in the States if American priests would do such things.
     
  8. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    @MDawg How do we really change a person's opinion? By trying to understand why they do the things they do. So when you call Mike Pence a woman-hating he-man you must realize that he is married to a wife that believes the same things he believes. This isn't a man that hates women. He simply believes in something different than you believe, be that informed by religion or a different sense of morality. These people are not evil, they are just people. Turn it around and people who say the things you are saying will call you a child-killer when all you really care about is making sure women have the option to do something that they may one day deem necessary.

    No one likes to abort fetuses just like no one wants to hurt women. But the more we inflame our discussions with this kind of accusatory rhetoric and the less we get down to the more complex truths of our shared experiences and divergent viewpoints, the more we are going to be given back the kind of politics we deserve, a highly divided politics where no one wins. Compromise where you can and try to understand the Mike Pence's of the world and maybe we can at least win half the time, and maybe get back to a place where we can have a civilized democracy.

    P.S. Is that really a screenshot of The Huffington Post? If so, please do not encourage these kinds of websites by giving them views and advertising dollars. They are part of the problem and profitting greatly by perpetuating it. Find a credible news source that will present the facts for you to interpret and not a pre-defined viewpoint for you to regurgitate.

    EDIT:

    I understand that there are problems with what he is doing, but I am trying to direct the conversation toward something we can agree on. There are good things and there are bad things. I am saying, let's make the best of the good and try to be more civil to each other when discussing everything else. P.S. Also read the article I posted in its entirety as there are more details that might provide you a bit more hope in the face of this decision, a decision which all Republican presidents have historically made since Reagan began it, and all Democratic presidents have reversed.

    P.P.S. The Catholic priesthood wouldn't have such a high rate of pedophilia if there wasn't an oath of abstinence, in my opinion. I hope this will one day be addressed.
     
    #48 Dreyfus, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  9. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    Don't hope. Our state wasn't able to punish them because the Catholic Church protected them.

    All my Christian friends are either protestant or say "I'm Catholic but I believe that [insert the beliefs of a protestant]", and I totally respect and understand that. Catholicism is dead here, and it is truly deserved.
     
  10. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. However, just to follow up on your comments on the polling. Yes, a few outlier polls were saying some of those states would goto Trump, but those are outliers. All I know is the Real Clear Politics, a week before the election, calculated the poll averages in all three states and predicted all three would go to Trump. The polls you linked to were a little while before the election, while the ones I've linked to were right before the election, meaning they are therefore more accurate. I like RCP because they calculate the averages of polls, and ignore the outliers. There's always going to be outliers that are way off. I think a lot of pollsters learned a big lesson through this election, but I see no evidence whatsoever that there's a big conspiracy from pollsters to convince people that Trump isn't popular. I think the results speak for themselves: of the people eligible to vote for him, 75% chose not to. They either voted for someone else or didn't vote. Those are just facts.
    Sadly, it exists everywhere. I live in Canada, and went to Catholic school. Every Catholic school has a priest, (usually one priest serving many schools in one community) and it was recently revealed the priest at my school from when I was Grades 2-11, a guy I looked up to my whole life, molested a student back in 2007. No one had any idea, that person never said a word until he filed charges recently. I did a bit of research and found out that there are entire websites dedicated to charting abuse by the Catholic church in Canada, websites that don't even report on incidents happening in other countries. It also turns out that, as you hear in many other stories, there have been stories of coverups and settlements by the church to keep this stuff quiet. After all, the question is natural, how do people in the church not know this is happening? The answer is that they do know, and they keep quiet. I heard about the charges against this priest in 2014, and I swore I'd never set foot in a Catholic church again. To date, I've kept my promise.
     
  11. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    Trump's America - Day One:

    As this article says, Trump viewed yesterday (Monday) as his first real day on the job.

    On Monday, Trump signed an executive order pulling us out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, another executive order putting a freeze on federal jobs hiring (except for military jobs), and another executive order banning federal funding for foreign agencies promoting abortions (same thing Bush did on his first day in office, and that's the same law Obama undid on his first day).

    He also met with union and business leaders, had lunch with the Vice President, and met with the Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.

    No mass deportations were initiated, no minorities were lynched, no crosses were burned in people's yards.
     
  12. ToonJay723

    ToonJay723 Bingo Bongo

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    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    What @wonderfly neglects to mention is that by shutting out government hiring, Donnie significantly raises the costs of bringing in new people to work on stuff since contracted employees cost significantly more than actually hiring people like a business would do. So that position that may cost $60/per hour with benefits and whatever? Now it's $120/hour by bringing in outside workers. Way to save money, huh?

    All part of the plan of showing that the government fails the people by purposefully causing the failure. But go on, tell us how great it is that there won't be more people to help in the woefully understaffed VA, or more food inspectors to handle the horribly understaffed USDA. I'm sure Jesus will cure that looming hepatitis epidemic, won't he?

    Also, the people of Flint, Michigan won't have answers anytime soon about accountability in their water crisis since the GOP decided to close the investigation. Guess when it's a majority black population of democratic voters it doesn't matter, huh? Real Christian of them.
     
    #53 MDawg, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  14. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
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    This is really alarming. It's clear the Trump administration wants to suppress dissent of any kind. Based on the rapid rate this is going, it will soon be a crime to even criticize Trump.

    Between this and many states wanting to have stricter laws imposed on protestors (with Minnesota just passing one this morning!), things are not looking good for the peoples' right to peacefully protest.
     
  15. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    I don't think criticizing Trump will ever be forbidden. Let us all use our common sense, please. Even Russians are somewhat capable of criticizing Putin.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    That's adorable that you think that.
     
  17. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
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  18. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    Oh, we were talking about freedom of press. Duh. I'm stupid.

    I'd like to mention this site if we're going to talk about press: https://rsf.org/en/ranking For anyone who likes clicking on coloured maps.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. stephane dumas

    stephane dumas Well-Known Member

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    Trump might thanks Obama for some of the powers he inherited.

     
  20. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    This is from the VPRO and was aired on Dutch state television :D

    It got more than 4 500 000 viewers in less than two days. I love how this is basically an actual message from the Dutch government :')
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    #60 Red Arrow :D, Jan 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017

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