My take - Wonder Woman: The Animated Series

Discussion in 'The DC Animation Forum' started by BonnieB21:-), Feb 12, 2013.

  1. BonnieB21:-)

    BonnieB21:-) Active Member

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    Wonder Woman hasn't had a TV show in over 30 years. She's never been the star of her own cartoon unlike Batman and Superman who've had several. Even Green Lantern beat her to it. Warner Brothers struggle to find a way to bring her to modern audiences even though she has great name recognition. But beyond that how much does anyone really know about her? Are her adaptation problems real or perceived? Why can't WB/DC just tell her story straight? It doesn't have to be dark or edgy. If you were going to make a Wonder Woman: The Animated Series how would you do it?

    Wonder Woman: The Animated Series

    Setting: Modern day Washington D.C.

    Cast

    Diana Prince/Wonder Woman- newcomer to Man's World from Paradise Island on a mission to broker peace through butt kicking. In her civilian life, she's a hot librarian type private in the armed forces, assistant to...

    Major Steve Trevor- special agent in the military, always going on secret missions, does not know that Wonder Woman and Diana Prince are the same person

    Etta Candy- best friend to Diana Prince, fellow soldier of Steve and Diana.

    Nubia- Amazonian rival, defeated by Diana to gain title of Wonder Woman and opportunity to go to Man's World.

    Queen Hippolyta- Queen of Amazons, mother to Diana and Donna, suspicious of Man's World

    Donna Troy/Wonder Girl- runs away from Paradise Island to join big sis- has a mysterious past.

    Villains
    (Part of WW's perceived problem is that her Rogues Gallery isn't as strong as Batman or Superman's- why not borrow some of the best from the DCU)

    Giganta

    Cheetah

    (Can't do a show without either of them since they're her best known villains)

    Catwoman (why can't we have an all Cat Girl Squad team up with Cheetah)

    The Greek Pantheon- Ares, Zeus, Medusa, Circe, Hades, etc. They are their normal self centered, selfish, petty, vengeful selves.

    Livewire

    Poison Ivy & Harley Quinn

    Queen Bee- as possibly the series "Big Bad" a princess vs an evil queen

    Who would you add to the cast? It does need more male characters and an overall plot.
     
  2. the greenman

    the greenman Active Member

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    Funny you brought this, there's a documentary about female superheroes coming out soon. I had mentioned somewhere on these boards about them doing WW like Captain America. Show her WW2 exploits and have her disappear back to the island only to return to our modern time in a vastly different world. Women have a lot more power than 50 years ago. I want to see her rogues gallery fleshed out abit more. Some of it needs some tlc like how Timm updated the Batman rogues. I know dr. Cyber and another doctor, but she needs someone on the scale of Darkseid. I'd put Queen Bee up there too, but maybe at Ra's Al Ghul level. I would also concentrate on Diana more so, have her train to be a martial artist and lose her powers.Toss in some interaction with Supergirl, Powergirl, Zatanna, the Birds of Prey and maybe even Mary Marvel.
     
  3. Fancyarcher

    Fancyarcher New Member

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    Sorry a Wonder Woman cartoon isn’t happening anytime soon. Unless she’s getting her own movie, there’s no chance in hell she’ll have a cartoon.
     
  4. Monte

    Monte Active Member

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    Well she does have GODS amongst her common enemies. Even if they hadn't been utilized as such I would think that Ares or Hades could be a extremely high level threats
     
  5. Hordesman

    Hordesman slashor

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    There's been at least two pitched. Star Riders, a Sailormoon-type show presented at toyfair 20 years back. And Batman Beyond was up against pilots for Flash and Wonder Woman some years later. Lol, I remember imagining a Wonder Woman tas show would have an action figure line full of Steve Trevor variants. :p
     
  6. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    No Batman villains. Okay, maybe if they needed them for ratings, give it a shot, but otherwise don't rely on his cast to promote other heroes.

    Wonder Woman is a tough property to manage. Nobody lately seems to know how to handle the character, it seems, and I don't really blame them. I used to think the easy and obvious answer was to base her origins around either Perez's or Marston's origins, but that seems too optimistic and simplistic to me these days.
     
  7. reflection

    reflection Active Member

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    Reminds me of that History Channel documentary on Superheroes from about 10 years ago. They talked about the huge feminist backlash after WW lost her powers.

    I do like the idea of doing it like Captain America. That would be more for a movie than an animated series or live action show.

    I also like the idea of a WW:Brave and the Bold focus on team-ups with other women heroes. Maybe it could even be marketed more toward girls.

    I haven't see the WW DTV since it came out, but I loved that adaptation of her.
     
  8. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Grumpy Gorilla

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    The other doctor you're thinking of might be Dr. Psycho, who I think would be a good major nemesis for Wonder Woman if you cast him as the darker, uglier side of Diana's Lasso of Truth. There is a powerful element of compulsion to the Lasso of Truth, tempered mostly by Diana's compassion and the way it's really intended as an infallible lie detector. Dr. Psycho has mind-control powers that you could play as the forced compulsion without the compassion and in the service of lies rather than the Truth. You could play Queen Bee in the same role, but I like the male/female opposition that Dr. Psycho sets up with Wonder Woman. Plus, he has more history as a Wonder Woman-specific villain. I think you could probably even escalate him to a Ra's al-Ghul-scaled villain, with an army of mind-addled drones doing his evil bidding behind a season-long Sinister Plot (mwah-hah-hah-hah!). The scale of his operation and his ambitions would also set up another dichotomy with his incredibly short stature.

    And, as has been pointed out, Wonder Woman has Greek gods in her supporting cast and Ares has served as her Darkseid. I don't think you're hurting for candidates for a Big Bad Bigger than the Hero.

    I would leave out the other heroes, though, at least at first. Batman's first superhero team-up was with Zatanna (and the way that episode plays, you could be forgiven for not even realizing Zee's a superhero) and then he didn't get any more until much later. Superman didn't get team-ups until season 2. I'd rather not send the message, however inadvertently or unintentionally, that Wonder Woman can't stand on her own without assists from other female superheroes. I would also skip out on the "powerless" phase at first -- let that play out after this hypothetical series has been established, make the "losing her powers" a season finale cliffhanger, and then spend a bunch of episodes early in the next season showing how she's still compelled to be a hero even without them. The way she acts will ultimately be how she earns those powers back in a big triumphant moment halfway through the season.

    Why do you say that? The Perez retake was pretty much lifted wholesale for the DTV movie and is still active today. I think the core of her character as a warrior for peace is inherently complex -- more so than the relatively straightforward takes for Superman or Batman. I think Greg Rucka got a lot of it right in his run on the comics (even if the stories were horribly decompressed and I detected a certain amount of editorial mandate that forced a lot of things). Gail Simone not only doesn't avoid that contradiction, but runs forward top speed and embraces it, and I find her take on Diana to be one of of my favorites in the modern era (even if some of the stories get kind of messy). Kurt Busiek also had some interesting insights into her and how she stands in opposition to Superman and Batman in Trinity, and again, he doesn't shy away from her many contradictions.

    Yes, I realize this series has a snowball's chance of being made, but that's not the point. I'd sure love to see it (or even a sequel to the DTV).
     
  9. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    Don't get me wrong. I read a lot of Perez's run, and I think it's as good as any take on the character. I think I'm just a bit conflicted about the Greek pantheon. Obviously, those characters bring a lot of baggage with them, and sometimes it's hard to reconcile them and our understanding of the modern world. What complicates things even further is if you want to incorporate the rest of the DCU, like Superman or GL or Flash or whoever. I know that's not a problem for many people, but I do notice that if there's a story with WW and other DC heroes, with minimal reference to the Greek pantheon, the crossover seems to work a lot more conveniently. I followed some of Azzarello's WW, and while I think it's perfectly fine right now, if I think about how it fits in with the rest of the DCU, all of the sudden I think it gets unenjoyably complicated. That's why I say something like "just follow Perez's model," despite how good I think it was, isn't necessarily the right answer.
     
  10. the greenman

    the greenman Active Member

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    Here it is:

    Wonder Women! The Untold Story of American Superheroines | Documentary Film | Independent Lens | PBS
     
  11. BonnieB21:-)

    BonnieB21:-) Active Member

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    In Your Satin Tights, Fighting For Your Rights


    I looked up Dr. Psycho. He's a mysogynist, cannibal- can't see why he's never been on TV before:shrug:. To make him more palatable, tone down the mysogyny and make him a love-hater. Scorned by all women, he now hates love and romance. Have him working with the Duke Of Deception and Ares to bring about a more spartan world. They feel like the world has gotten too soft, too politically correct, too peaceful, too easy. They want a more war torn, coarse, tough civilization- survival of the fittest. Yet every top tier villainess (Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Harley Quinn), who works with him vow never to again

    Queen Bee & Dr.Psycho would be an interesting duo- both control people. When they meet who would be in charge? Who's using their powers against whom? Is anyone safe around them? Dr. Psycho would hate being around QB but not be able to resist her. Queen Bee would loathe him, but not know why she keeps lending him large sums of money.

    Hades just wants more bodies in his underworld.

    Zeus- King Of the Gods (separated from Hera, but still married) is only slightly more level headed than the rest of the gods- is still vengeful, every time we see him he's in a different form; swan, golden rain, bull, disguised human, should be managing the affairs of the gods- is instead skirt chasing.

    Aphrodite- Goddess of Love- exists to throw curve balls at Wonder Woman and distract her. She'll be the one to get Clark Kent, Arthur Curry, and Bruce Wayne to cross paths with Diana Prince just when she's trying to get serious with Steve Trevor. Wonder Woman might still be bound to the idea that if she marries or falls in love she'll lose all her powers.

    Hera- Queen of the Gods- not just sitting around letting Zeus do whatever- she's actively working with Diana and causing many disasters to befall any woman who catches Zeus' eye.

    Athena- Goddess of Wisdom- patron saint of Wonder Woman also working with WW.

    Poseidon- God of the Ocean- disapproves of Man's World's handling of the 7 seas (how much does Poseidon have to do with Aquaman and Atlantis? I can't believe there's not more of a connection between Paradise Island and Atlantis).

    Ultimately, all the gods would want the same thing, to be openly worshipped again. The Greek pantheon is still bitter over falling out of public favor a little over 2,000 years ago. With Wonder Woman out in Man's World as their most powerful, heroic,beautiful, and inspiring believer- they're hoping to use her as their prophet heralding their second coming. They want temples, offerings, prayers, and adoring masses- even the more level headed amongst the gods want in on a new world order. Each wants to remake the world in their own image. But does Wonder Woman want this? Is this the reason she went to Man's World? Would she really want Man's World under the total influence of the seamier aspects of the Greek pantheon? Her having to fight the gods would be getting into Xena/Kratos territory.


    Aquaman- King Of The Seas- ends up working with Wonder Woman against the Greek Gods quite a bit. Why not have a bit of a ship tease between them? AM is a big enough name that he can guest star without over shadowing WW. He could be in a quadrangle with Mera/Diana/Steve.

    Captain Marvel & Mary Marvel- having gotten at least some of their powers from the Greek pantheon means they could guest star and yet not over shadow WW.

    If she does lose her powers, it could be time for another Paradise Island tournament to see who takes over the tiara of Wonder Woman with Nubia, Donna Troy, etc going at it again while Diana has to retrain and learn to do without.


    We wouldn't see WW kill in WW:TAS, but she wouldn't be opposed to it and certainly threatens villains with it. I don't think we've ever truly gotten a good episode or movie about WW, Bats, and Supes and how they differ in the way they handle crime fighting.
     
  12. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Grumpy Gorilla

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    Ah. I think that's a different criticism than saying Wonder Woman is too optimistic, but I can see that point a bit better. I think that'd be as good a reason as any to separate a Wonder Woman series from the rest of the DCU (just I don't have a problem with any other heroes appearing on GLTAS). That said, it's never really bothered me that Wonder Woman works in such wildly different circles as the others. I like steak and I like lobster, but every now and then it's nice to have a surf-and-turf, and I see most superhero stuff that way, too. I don't mind big-scale superheroics vs. gritty urban crime drama vs. semi-divine epics vs. cosmic-scale heroing vs. magic, and the existence of one doesn't make any of the others less valid or more problematic because they're really different things, and I'm OK with mixing them up every now and then in a Justice League or a similar show. It's a thought I'm cribbing from Kurt Busiek, but I can't find it quickly searching through his blog at the moment.

    In any event, incorporating the gods into the show as Bonnie suggests above might make for a good season(s)-long conflict, with the only real issue being the paganism that might be unpalatable to TV network execs. There's a reason why most of the "gods" who show up in superhero comics are always couched as extremely powerful beings that were worshipped by earlier humans who didn't know better, and in a world where Superman, Apokalips, the Green Lantern Corps, and War World exist, that's a perfectly rational explanation for them.

    I can totally live without the cannibalism angle, but the misogyny? Why not? He's the bad guy. I'm OK with him being a massive negative role model, and his brand of domination (vs. William Moulton Marston's concepts of submission built into Wonder Woman from the start) fits nicely with the idea that he's a misogynist as well. The other stuff you're talking about works, too, but I'm totally OK with making Dr. Psycho one of those guys you just love to hate.

    As for the rest, as I said -- I'd rather leave as many of the other DC heroes out of the picture as possible, at least initially. Wonder Woman is interesting enough on her own that she doesn't need them. If there is to be shipping going on, I think the Steve Trevor/Etta Candy/Wonder Woman triangle is complicated enough without throwing Aquaman in there. If you're going to do anything else, I'd throw in the Department of Meta-Human Affairs and add in Amanda Waller, Sarge Steel, and Thomas Tresser/Nemesis for that.

    This does mean that your proposed episode about Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman comparisons also falls by the wayside, but I'm not sure that a TV show is the best place for that.

    ...assuming there's a Paradise Island to have a tournament on. (Cue dramatic music!)
     
  13. Sarada

    Sarada Active Member

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    I think the one thing holding back a Wonder Woman series from being made is an unfortunate and woeful lack of faith in both animation and woman-centric animation. Ignoring Disney's little empire of girl-centric animation--which is rather strictly aimed at younger girls--it really isn't common to see animation about women aimed at older women or even audiences in general. Is a Wonder Woman series that tries even the slightest to skewer older than the 3-6 crowd really a likely or even smart business venture? There's very little in the way of statistics to show numbers would be good, not unless the princess played second fiddle to a man in her own show...which, y'know, would incite a whole heck of a lot of deserved criticism.

    Artistically, I think a Wonder Woman series could work just dandy. With Hades as her Darkseid and fifty-plus episodes of people getting stabbed and beheaded...it sounds like a lot of fun. Of course, with the way Green Lantern: The Animated Series and Young Justice went, I suppose fifty is too much to ask for. :lol:

    Ah, if only I were rich...
     
  14. the greenman

    the greenman Active Member

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    Sure seems MLP: fim geared toward a certain women.
     
  15. Sarada

    Sarada Active Member

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    If my three year old niece's singing unicorn toy is anything to go by, it's toddlers. :lol:
     
  16. Northern Sun

    Northern Sun New Member

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    I'd love to see a Wonder Woman series. It'd satisfy my love of strong female characters and Greek mythology. As Paschal said however, I'm not sure if there's much business in something with a female lead in an action. You see it in video games to. Just recently there was an article about the new Gears of War game where the devs discussed being interested in a female lead, but were too worried about a negative sales impact to invest in it.

    Still, Legend of Korra seemed to do well(though I've never seen any ratings), so maybe if it's next 14 episodes are successful it could make CN executives take a serious look at the idea.
     
  17. ganon51

    ganon51 New Member

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    I don't know, I don't think most people will find her villains as interesting as Batman and Superman's villains. And look at how the animated 2009 movie turned out, not sure if a solo animated series would be good for her.
     
  18. Wonderwall

    Wonderwall Moderator

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    Whether people find her villains as interesting as those two would be up to the hypothetical creative team's work. Superman's villains on paper I would say are about on par with WW rogue gallery. What do you mean about your comment about the movie. A lot of people really liked that movie and it's usually on the tops for people's list of the DC movie line. What didn't you like about it?
     
  19. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu Grumpy Gorilla

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    Legend of Korra was a massive ratings success, which is no doubt one reason why Nick renewed it for 3 more seasons. On top of that, last year saw Katniss Everdeen conquer the box office as an action hero, alongside Snow White and the Huntsman and Merida in Brave. Last year was the year of the female action hero, and all those dollar signs that those 3 movies produced plus the success of Korra should be all the justification anybody should need to do another one. But old habits die hard and I don't expect the average executive to take the lesson if they don't want to.
     
  20. juan1193

    juan1193 New Member

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