MGM Cartoons version differences discussion

Discussion in 'Back To The Inkwell - Classic Cartoons Discussion' started by Cool_Cat, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    As for the "the end" title cards, in Tom's Photo Finish (2 Turner Prints) they also have a slight difference :
    1. The NTSC version (Tom and Jerry Classic Collection) edited the fade : fade in late and out early at the end title card faster than usual.
    2. The rare PAL version (usually seen on Cartoon Network) : the fade doesn't seem to be edited, we can still see clearly the contrast while fading in and out. Here is the sample of the ending to this version.

    As for Royal Cat Nap :
    1. The NTSC version has a faster and later fade in and does not have the border to the left and right of the title card.
    IMG_20171017_192351.jpg

    2. The PAL version is completely different, it slowly fade the border first, which also contains the left and right border, then the end title card fade in. Also, the end title card is much narrower and darker than the NTSC version.
    IMG_20171017_192359.jpg
     
  2. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    @Charly9631 for Royal Cat Nap I think you got it the other way round.

    1. The Turner print of Royal Cat Nap which has no borders in the ending card is the PAL print, evidenced from a PAL Cartoon Network station (I guess Europe? Southeast Asia? Australia & New Zealand) TVrip and the Classic Collection DVD

    CN (Non-US) TVrip (I guess Europe? Southeast Asia? Australia & New Zealand)

    http://www.b99.tv/video/royal-cat-nap/
    Tom & Jerry Classic Collection DVDrip

    2. Meanwhile the Turner print of Royal Cat Nap which has blue borders in the ending card is the NTSC print, evidenced from Cartoon Network USA.
    http://www.peteava.ro/id-80827-tom-and-jerry-royal-cat-nap

    And again for Tom's Photo Finish and Cat Fishin' Turner prints differences, @Charly9631 you had it the other way round again. Pretty much you got the NTSC and PAL prints completely mixed up and swapped.

    Here's one thing to point out so that you don't get confused between the NTSC and PAL versions:

    1. The NTSC versions always play with normal-pitched audio and normal speed, and the CN/Boomerang bug is always at the bottom right of the screen. Note that the onscreen bug fades in and fades out for a few seconds before and after the cartoons ends.
    CN NTSC.png

    2. The PAL versions always play with high-pitched audio and are sped-up slightly by 4-5%, and the CN/Boomerang bug is usually always at the top right of the screen. Some PAL region TV versions however have the CN/Boomerang bug at the bottom right of the screen, such as Cartoon Network Southeast Asia (before 1998) and Boomerang France (since 2015). Note that the onscreen bug stays permanent on the screen throughout the cartoon without any fading in or fading out, and in many PAL CN/Boomerang feeds (including Europe and Australia/New Zealand) since 1999 the onscreen bug even appears during commercial breaks.
    CN PAL.png
     
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    #202 A-Cecil, Oct 18, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  3. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    Oh, yeah. I usually get confused about the NTSC and PAL because I usually thought PAL runs in 24.97fps or 49.94fps and NTSC runs in 29.97fps or 59.94fps.
     
  4. MTGM

    MTGM Member

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    Does anyone have the laserdisc version of Muscle Beach Tom handy on them? I haven't seen it ever since Boomerang started airing the remastered version in its place.
     
  5. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    The Laserdisc print of "Muscle Beach Tom" is available on Desenhos Raros website, albeit in pan-and-scan. The widescreen version (albeit in letterboxed format) is only available on The Art Of Tom & Jerry laserdisc release.
    https://mega.nz/#!ZFgwlIxB!U2WA6qwyHfVvvPfD4SMjdOkQ-sYHgL-CGEEACNh-puQ

    These pan-and-scan Laserdisc prints I believe they were made for TV broadcasts/VHS releases in 1988. Most of these prints tend to have either colored letterboxed title sequences or with the titles stretched to fit the 4:3 television screen. I have no idea what MGM cartoons' VHS releases by MGM/UA Home Video have these pan-and-scan prints.

    Here are some screenshots of the pan-and-scan LaserDisc print of Muscle Beach Tom as seen on CN/Boomerang USA, recorded from Cartoon Network Latin America:
    MBT_LD.png
    MBT_LD - Copy.png
    MBT_LD - Copy - Copy.png
    MBT_LD - Copy - Copy - Copy.png
    MBT_LD - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy.png
    Note that the letterboxing borders in the televised LaserDisc print are blue.

    Interestingly even though a pan-and-scan NTSC Turner print of Muscle Beach Tom does exists, for some reason Cartoon Network and Boomerang USA didn't even bother replacing that old transfer, instead opting to stick to the same unrestored transfer they used since the 1992 Cartoon Network launch. This exact same thing also happens to "Cat Napping" on both USA Turner networks.

    Speaking about the restored version of Muscle Beach Tom replacing the pan-and-scan LaserDisc print they used to air, @MTGM did Boomerang USA (which is only available in standard definition unlike its parent channel Cartoon Network which is available in both standard definition and high definition) air the restored version of Muscle Beach Tom in its original widescreen format (albeit leterboxed) or in cropped 4:3 pan-and-scan format?
     
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  6. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil Actually that Pan & Scan version was made for the "Bad Day at Cat Rock" VHS.
     
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  7. MTGM

    MTGM Member

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    They show it in a 16:9 cropped format. They do the same for a few other remastered CinemaScope cartoons while others are cropped to 4:3 pan-and-scan.
     
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  8. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    And in Cartoon Network Asia they used the PAL version of the Turner print of Muscle Beach Tom.
    And speaking of the laserdisc version, does anyone here remember the unrestored version of Happy Go Ducky (also pan-and-scan) with dark red letterboxing border and Royal Cat Nap with purple letterboxing border?
     
  9. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Yes, but they are in pan-and-scan. I could however only remember unrestored version of Happy Go Ducky (also pan-and-scan) with dark red letterboxing border.

    These are some images from these two cartoons' LaserDisc prints (Happy Go Ducky is from Cartoon Network Southeast Asia);
    bb802ccd15830be03ed0f607d62ef15bo.png
    f6c6449aa2f7e9f5548aca7dc4d5f6eeo.png
    Unfortunately I haven't got any videos for these.
     
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  10. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Here is a rare discovery: A clip from the first ever Tom & Jerry cartoon "Puss Gets The Boot" with June Foray's redub over the original Black Mammy footage (however, the footage appears to be really faded, with a reddish sort of tint, in comparison to the later transfers (e.g. Laserdisc, Turner and Restored)):

    I have no idea which VHS release has this rare version of "Puss Gets The Boot"

    This rare edited version is shown on Cartoon Network Southeast Asia, instead of using the 1995 Turner print with Thea Vidale's redub (Thea Vidale's redub has Mammy address Tom by "Jasper"" instead of his actual name "Thomas", has all of Tom's original meowing sounds Clarence Nash intact and undubbed and has the original, incorrect O-W-T out spelling spelled correctly as O-U-T.)

    June Foray's re-dub has Mammy address Tom by his actual name "Thomas" instead of the original "Jasper", and retains the original, incorrect O-W-T out spelling. I also noticed that the old June Foray re-dub of Mammy Two-Shoes also re-dubs Tom's meowing at 0:12-0:14 (its unknown who re-dubs Tom's meowing in this sequence), replacing Tom's original meowing sounds by Clarence Nash in this sequence (though Tom's original meowing sounds in other scenes in this cartoon remain unaltered).

    Other MGM cartoon goofs I noticed:

    1. Puss Gets The Boot's restored version as seen on Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection Volume 2 DVD, Academy Awards Animation Collection DVD and Tom & Jerry Golden Collection Volume 1 Blu-Ray/DVD has a rare remodified "Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Presents An MGM Cartoon" title card credit with the "in TECHNICOLOR" line blanked out. Notice how different the 1940 MGM Cartoons logos look in these two different transfers.
    puss gets the boot MGM logos.png
    (Left: Original 1940 MGM Cartoons title card/Right: Restored 1940 MGM Cartoons title card with the Technicolor credit removed)

    2. The restored version of "Touche Pussy Cat!" has altered soundtrack, with some missing audio as well as Nibbles/Tuffy's lines singing Frère Jacques muted out.

    Altered soundtrack

    http://onlineplayer.eu/Tom-and-Jerry/touch-pussy-cat-89.html
    Original soundtrack

    3.
    (a) The unrestored transfer of "Dr Jekyll and Mr Mouse" as seen on VHS and Laserdisc appears to be really very faded, with a horrible blue tint and messed-up color levels. This ugly print airs on Cartoon Network Southeast Asia instead of the more superior-looking Turner print, and every time I see this print it just seems to hurt my eyes because of the print's bluish tint.
    dr jekyll & mr mouse_LD.png

    (b) Even though no full video of this print is found, there also appears to be another alternate unrestored transfer of the very same cartoon which was also mastered before the cartoon's Turner print was created, found via a clip from the opening of "A Taste Of Cartoon Network" 1993 VHS tape.
    djmm.png
    The colors of this pre-1995 transfer appear to look MUCH BETTER than that ugly-looking transfer as mentioned above.

    Can anyone here help to clarify these two different pre-1994 unrestored transfers of Dr Jekyll & Mr Mouse?

    4. There appears to be two VHS/LaserDisc prints of "The Million Dollar Cat"; one has red curved blending borders and the other has no borders in the opening titles:
    MDC_1.png MDC_2.png
    (Left: Version 1 with red borders, Right: Version 2 with no borders)
    Cartoon Network Southeast Asia airs this second VHS/LD version of "The Million Dollar Cat" on the right instead of the Turner print.

    5.
    (a) The LaserDisc print of "Rock-A Bye Bear" has high-pitched audio at the opening credits, and then the pitch switches back to normal for the rest of the cartoon after the opening titles.
    http://texaverytv.netingredients.com/ (Rock-A-Bye Bear)

    The video link to Tex Avery TV has the full version of the LD print of "Rock-A-Bye Bear".

    (b) The Turner print (both the NTSC and PAL versions) of the cartoon doesn't have this audio pitch inconsistency problem as described above, however the 1952-1954 Technicolor MGM Cartoons Lion Logo is replaced by the 1960s Metrocolor MGM Cartoons Lion Logo as seen on the Gene Deitch era Tom & Jerry shorts, hinting that the cartoon's Turner print is sourced from a Metrocolor print.

    Very often, all Turner prints of pre-1960s MGM cartoons are sourced from 3-strip Technicolor prints, and they often omit all references to Metrocolor. However there was only ONE exception to this: Rock-A-Bye Bear (1952). It is the only Turner print of the pre-1960 MGM cartoons that is sourced from a Metrocolor print and had altered MGM Cartoons logo.

    (c) Speaking about the faded Metrocolor look in pre-1960s MGM cartoons' Turner prints, even though the Turner print of "Fine Feathered Friend" (referring to both the NTSC and PAL prints) is sourced from a Technicolor print, however it looks like a Metrocolor print to me (because of the dark, washed-out colors, especially Tom having a very dark grey color).
    FFF.png
     
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  11. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil

    -The print on the French VHS of Puss Gets the Boot is different than the other ones. When it aired on Boomerang FR it had June Foray's voice too. The other two older prints are the one from the Bad Day at Cat Rock VHS and the one in the US LD set (which the audio was used as a source for the Turner print)

    -The old Italian print of The Night Before Christmas aired on Rai 2 had the exact fake title card spliced into the film. On many non Technicolor prints they use the lion sequence taken from another cartoon with the Technicolor line blanked out instead of Leo the Lion.

    -All the shorts on the first Cartoon Festival tape on the PAL version were shot directly at 576i but have 24fps pitch audio, while on the NTSC version (which I still have to order in Laserdisc format) it looks like they have frame blending and they were re shot from the same source. Once I'll get my hands on it I'll post more info.

    -The transfer on the right of the Million Dollar Cat comes from the VHS of the same name (also known as Cartoon Festival Volume 3). The one on the left apparently belongs to a set of late 80s/early 90s prints. A few of these ended up on the LD set while two of them were on the 1995 VHS series. The Turner prints have the exact same audio as these, except they filtered it sometimes. The print of The Invisible Mouse with the 60s lion on the LD set also belongs to this series.
     
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  12. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    The print of "Half-Pint Palomino" (1953) aired by Boomerang Germany is also sourced from a Metrocolor print, and also has the 60s MGM logo:
     
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  13. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    Speaking of the unrestored print, I remember also from CN Asia, I watched the unrestored print of Mouse in Manhattan, which looks kinda like the Eastman print to me. Not to mention, at the end of that episode, the screen just move left and right even worse than in Hic-cup Pup, whose print that CN Asia also broadcast on television.
    And as for The Cat Concerto, I remember seeing a similar print to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Mouse (broadcast right after it) but I didn't have images to show unfortunately...
     
  14. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @Charly9631 Those prints which shake left and right come from Cartoon Festival Volume 2. The Cat Concerto was released on the first volume instead. I'll post the full list:


    The Flying Cat
    The Bodyguard
    The Little Orphan
    Jerry's Cousin
    Dr Jekyll and Mr Mouse
    Mice Follies
    The Cat and the Mermouse
    The Cat Concerto

    Mouse Trouble
    Jerry and the Lion
    Mouse in Manhattan
    The Milky Waif
    Cat Napping
    Saturday Evening Puss
    Hic Cup Pup
    The Invisible Mouse

    The Million Dollar Cat
    The Night Before Christmas
    Polka Dot Puss
    Two Little Indians
    The Hollywood Bowl
    Trap Happy
    Cue Ball Cat
    Little Runaway

    Fraidy Cat
    Baby Butch
    Johann Mouse
    Pet Peeve
    The Mouse From Hunger
    The Dog House
    Baby Puss
    The Zoot Cat

    The Bowling Alley Cat
    Pecos Pest
    The Duck Doctor
    Robin Hoodwinked
    Hatch Up Your Troubles
    Heavenly Puss
    Yankee Doodle Mouse
    Tee For Two

    Ah Sweet Mouse Story of Life
    Barbecue Brawl
    Blue Cat Blues
    Atominable Snowman
    The Brothers Carry Mouse Off
    Buddies Thicker Than Water
    Calypso Cat
    Cannery Rodent

    Bad Day at Cat Rock
    Muscle Beach Tom
    Nit Witty Kitty
    Puttin on the Dog
    Springtime for Thomas
    The Two Mouseketeers
    Puppy Tale
    Puss Gets the Boot

    The Missing Mouse
    Is There a Doctor in the Mouse
    It's Greek to Meow
    Jerry Jerry Quite Contrary
    Southbound Duckling
    Rock N Rodent
    Jerry and the Goldfish
    The Vanishing Duck

    Professor Tom
    Sleepy Time Tom
    Tom's Photo Finish
    Tomic Energy
    The Framed Cat
    Smarty Cat
    Royal Cat Nap
    Timid Tabby

    Quiet Please
    Old Rockin Chair Tom
    Salt Water Tabby
    Jerry and Jumbo
    The Midnight Snack
    The Mouse Comes to Dinner
    Mouse Cleaning
    Solid Serenade

    Cat and Dupli Cat
    Life with Tom
    The Lonesome Mouse
    Feedin the Kiddie
    Catty Cornered
    Little Quacker
    The Egg and Jerry
    Of Feline Bondage

    Little School Mouse
    Cruise Cat
    Down and Outing
    Filet Meow
    Posse Cat
    Safety Second
    O Solar Meow
    Purr Chance to Dream

    Puss N Toots
    The Tom and Jerry Cartoon Kit
    Tot Watchers
    Touchè Pussy Cat
    Year of the Mouse
    Two Little Indians
    The Unshrinkable Jerry Mouse

    Tom and Cherie
    Smitten Kitten
    Snowbody Loves Me
    Love That Pup
    Love Me Love My Mouse
    I'm Just Wild about Jerry
    Part Time Pal
    Pup on a Picnic

    I'll write the rest of the MGM tapes later because I can't find my copy of the Rookie Bear VHS and I lost the episode list.
     
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  15. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    There also appears to be a laserdisc/VHS version of Sleepy-Time Tom, which looks really dark and uncomfortable for me to watch.

    Compare to the unrestored version of this episode (SBT). SBT used a different VHS tape of this episode, which looks way brighter and pretty much better for me. This print, if I'm not mistaken, CN Asia also broadcast it on television instead of using the Turner Print.
    https://mega.nz/#!DFhnwTRA!5enWgcc4Xfg4bfrCcqReLbAfF9HkEQSZ8ai89VU0NkM
     
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  16. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    @Cool_Cat I'm kinda curious about the VHS tape you're talking, especially the Blue Cat Blue episode. Was it the print which looks like this? Or was it another print?
     
  17. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @Charly9631 Yes that one.

    That's the LD capture looking bad on Sleepy Time Tom. It should look good.

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Here are some screenshots of the unrestored inferior print of "The Cat Concerto" as seen on CN Southeast Asia you're talking about @Charly9631;
    catconcerto_cartoonfestivals.png
    catconcerto_cartoonfestivals - Copy.png
    Looks like a pretty bad print to me, especially the opening titles looking so dull and faded with a blue-tinted MGM Cartoons Lion logo, but at least doesn't look as bad as the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Mouse print on the same Cartoon Festivals VHS tape.
     
    #218 A-Cecil, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  19. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil Wait until you see The Bodyguard :p
     
  20. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    Lol, it looks like a Public Domain print :D

    And that's ironic, considering this particular short isn't PD at all.
     

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