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MGM Cartoons version differences discussion

Discussion in 'Back To The Inkwell - Classic Cartoons Discussion' started by Cool_Cat, Jun 28, 2016.

  1. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Agreed. If you and I were working at the WB classic animation restoration department, we'd definitely reject those "inferior" restorations and tell the restoration team to start all over again.
     
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  2. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil I gave it a try, it was obviously taken from an Eastmancolor print as yellow and cyan are very faded compared to red, but it still needs to be re shot. These are my results with color correction though:

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately due to how bad the print is I'd have to pull off crazy things like selecting a specific area of the video and such, considering how the picture quality is very inconsistent through the cartoon.
     
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  3. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    Now that I'm getting the hang of it, I'm painstakingly cleaning up Tee for Two which was left uncleaned in the Blu Ray.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    To those who ask how am I doing this, I'm drawing a box around the dust spot so the software finds the best match by looking at the other frames. I have the demo version so I can't export the video. I think I'll buy the full version soon.
     
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  4. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    Guys what do you think?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    First scene is almost complete.
     
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  5. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    The original restored version on its own looks pretty good, but with a few additional tweaks by @Cool_Cat its even better because the picture is brighter and less grainy.
     
  6. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil Dude I only removed the dirt, the brightness and the grain is the same :p
     
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  7. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    @Cool_Cat @A-Cecil Do you guys have any idea for the colors in these 2 print ? (From The Ant and the Aardvark)
    2017-09-29 12.11.22.png 2017-09-29 12.11.53.png 2017-09-29 12.28.56.jpg 2017-09-29 12.12.44.png
     
  8. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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  9. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    I forgot to say that the top one was screenshot from a video which was broadcasted on TV Cultura (Brazilian television). The bottom one was the DVD version.
     
  10. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    Does anyone here still have the Tom and Jerry VCDs with this logo instead of MGM logo? 6a2dcf20abf7ccdcf50277a5f77d2ac6ad3d45db_hq.jpg
     
  11. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    No.
     
  12. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    I noticed that the Tom & Jerry short "A Mouse In The House" has three Turner prints that exist:

    1. First NTSC Turner print: Very thick blue borders in the opening titles which do not fade out with the MGM lion logo, terrible color correction, Mammy's voice not redubbed, no cuts. Usually not seen on TV, released on DVD as part of Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection Volume 3.

    2. Second NTSC Turner print: Thin dark blue borders in the opening titles (which fades out with the MGM lion logo), better color correction, Mammy's voice redubbed, censored (blackface gag removed). Seen on American TV, no idea what DVD/VHS release is this from.

    3. PAL Turner print: Thin sky blue border in the opening titles, dark blue borders around the MGM logo (which fades out with the MGM lion logo), better color correction, Mammy's voice not redubbed, censored (blackface gag removed). Seen on TV in PAL regions (including European countries), available on the European Tom & Jerry Classic Collection DVDs.
    a mouse in the house turner prints comparison.png
    Left: (1) First NTSC Turner print
    Middle: (2) Second NTSC Turner print
    Right: (3) PAL Turner print

    According to @Cool_Cat, there appears to be an alternative PAL Turner print of A Mouse In The House that has Mammy's voice redubbed and no cuts, as mentioned in an earlier post. Which one of the three Turner prints above represents this aforementioned rare alternate PAL Turner print?
     
    #192 A-Cecil, Oct 7, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  13. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    Maybe the first one? Cause the print remasteration and color correction really looks like the one used on all "Salt Water Tabby" Turner prints
     
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  14. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil There you go:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Back in the day they also aired one for Part Time Pal and one for The Lonesome Mouse.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Speaking of alternate Turner prints:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I do not have the one for The Midnight Snack but it should exist, with the soundtrack being entirely the m/e track redubbed.
     
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  15. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Speaking about alternate Turner prints, I once recall seeing the rare uncensored version of His Mouse Friday on TV3 Malaysia back in mid-2009. And this rare uncensored version on TV3 was the PAL Turner print (of course the one with the thick blue borders in the opening titles, which do not fade out with the MGM lion), with the cannibal dialogue intact and no-zooming-in at the end to crop out the little cannibal boy saying "Hmmm.....(licking lips) barbecued mouse!". This rare Turner print is completely unlike the Turner print seen on Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection and Classic Collection DVDs which although containing the cannibal dialogue intact, the little cannibal boy approaching Jerry is cropped out by an extreme zooming-in at the end of the cartoon. However because I don't have that TV recording, therefore I couldn't show images for evidence of this.

    One thing that really bothers me about these Tom and Jerry DVDs (referring to both the USA Spotlight Collection and the EU Classic Collection) is if they have an uncut Turner print in the vaults, which couldn't they just use it instead of the censored one?

    Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection once did that above mistake on both Volume 1 (with The Milky Waif and The Little Orphan) and Volume 2 (The Lonesome Mouse, Polka-Dot Puss, Saturday Evening Puss and Nit-Witty Kitty), but later issued replacement discs for both sets which had uncut ones (although The Truce Hurts' censored Turner print on Spotlight Collection Volume 1 was replaced by the unrestored LaserDisc print in the new replacement version DVD due to no uncut Turner print exists or is undiscovered). But for some reason, WB used the rare uncut Turner print of "A Mouse In The House" but put in the censored Turner print of "His Mouse Friday" on Spotlight Collection Volume 3 and didn't bother to offer replacement for an uncut version of "His Mouse Friday"

    The EU Tom & Jerry Classic Collection DVDs should've used that rare uncut Turner print of "A Mouse In The House" as pictured above but synced the original Mammy voice over it and release every single short uncensored;
    1. Have all the Mammy shorts with their original Mammy voice intact
    2. The Milky Waif, The Truce Hurts, The Little Orphan, His Mouse Friday, Life With Tom and Feedin' The Kiddie's censored Turner prints get replaced with uncut versions
    3. Flirty Birdy's PAL Turner print originally has an audio error which mutes out two lines of dialogue by the hawk; "Going down?" (after the hawk catches Tom making faces at him) and "She loves me!" (after getting hit on the head with a brick by Tom (in drag as a female eagle)). The DVD should've fixed this error by syncing in the audio from the original version.

    Full list of MGM cartoons Turner prints that commonly exist as censored versions only (even on the PAL masters, and not counting the USA Spotlight Collection copies):

    (a) Tom & Jerry
    1. Puss Gets The Boot (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    2. The Midnight Snack (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    3. Fraidy Cat (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    4. Dog Trouble (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    5. Puss n' Toots (Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale on both the NTSC and PAL Turner prints, even though the Chinese gag is left uncut on the PAL Turner print)
    6. The Lonesome Mouse (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    7. The Milky Waif (NOTE: A rare alternate uncut version of the cartoon's Turner print exists on current copies of Spotlight Collection Volume 1, although it doesn't air on television)
    8. A Mouse In The House (NOTE: This only refers to the common copies; the commonly-seen copies both have the blackface gag cut, but while the common NTSC version has Mammy;s voice redubbed, however the common PAL version has the original Mammy voice. A rare NTSC Turner print with the original Mammy voice and no cuts appears on Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection Volume 3, while a rare PAL Turner print with Mammy's voice redubbed and no cuts also exists)
    9. The Truce Hurts
    10. Old Rockin' Chair Tom (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    11. Polka Dot Puss (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    12. The Little Orphan (NOTE: A rare alternate uncut version of the cartoon's Turner print exists on current copies of Spotlight Collection Volume 1, although it doesn't air on television)
    13. Life With Tom
    14. Feedin' The Kiddie
    15. Saturday Evening Puss (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    14. The Framed Cat (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    15. Sleepy Time Tom (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    16. His Mouse Friday
    17. Nit-Witty Kitty (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)
    18. Push-Button Kitty (only Mammy's voice redubbed by Thea Vidale, no other edits)

    (b) Other MGM cartoons
    1. Blitz Wolf
    2. War Dogs
    3. Happy Go Nutty
    4. Daredevil Droopy (NOTE: A rare alternate uncut version of the cartoon's Turner print exists on Droopy: The Complete Theatrical Collection DVD, although it doesn't air on television)
    5. Droopy's Good Deed (NOTE: A rare alternate uncut version of the cartoon's Turner print exists on Droopy: The Complete Theatrical Collection DVD, although it doesn't air on television)
    6. Garden Gopher
    7. Henpecked Hoboes
    8. Lucky Ducky
    9. The Little Wise Quacker
     
    #195 A-Cecil, Oct 9, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  16. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    @A-Cecil The Chinese gag is uncut on both, it's CN in the USA who cut the scene.

    Also:

    -On His Mouse Friday they obviously plastered the edited scene into the uncut print. I always suspected it existed, at least I know it does now. Just take a look at the white line on the right. I think WB put the censored one on the DVD by mistake.

    -The Lonesome Mouse on CN Japan airs with the first print and with the original Mammy voice (just like the rest of the shorts). The redub was done on the first print, while on the Spotlight Collection you're hearing the soundtrack from the second print.

    -Flirty Birdy on CN Japan is muted too.

    -The Framed Cat used to have thick blue borders on the title on CN. On the later version they plastered the remastered intro and left the original print for the rest of the cartoon.

    -Blitz Wolf has the censored scene of the "No Japs Allowed" sign taken from another print, with a lot of DVNR. An uncut version should exist.

    -On War Dogs only the scene which has been edited has DVNR, so I suspect an uncut version exists.

    -Also with Lucky Ducky and Droopy's Good Deed there's DVNR only on the edited part.

    In general I think every Turner print should exist in an uncut version, or at least most of them.

    One last thing, a Turner print of Half Pint Pygmy does exist, completely unedited.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Interesting. Can't to think about it, one way to tell that the Turner print of "His Mouse Friday" is censored is whether there is a line on the right of the screen.
    HMF.png
    HMF - Copy.png
    And the rare uncensored Turner print of "His Mouse Friday" as I recalled seeing on TV3 in 2009 didn't have the white line on the right of the screen from start to end.

    Here's my recreation of the rare alternate PAL Turner print of "A Mouse In The House" using the Spotlight Collection DVD print:
    vlcsnap-2017-10-08-23h38m02s194.png
    vlcsnap-2017-10-08-23h38m07s251.png
    vlcsnap-2017-10-08-23h38m11s40.png
    vlcsnap-2017-10-08-23h39m02s21 - Copy.png
    vlcsnap-2017-10-08-23h39m02s21.png

    I even tried recreating the opening
    titles of the first Turner print of "The Framed Cat":

    TFC.png
    TFC - Copy.png
    TFC - Copy - Copy.png
     
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  18. Daffyrocks

    Daffyrocks Woo-hoo-hooo!

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    That's not all. :D There was a period when CN CEE would air during the City era a Tex Avery short as part of Tom and Jerry, and of course they were aired in English. And one of them was, beleive it or not, "Uncle Tom's Cabana" (1947). I am not kiddin. And the Turner print was intact, and by that I mean with absolutely no borders around it.

    I am sure someone must remember this.

    To bad thought that I can't show you any picture or video proof.
     
  19. Charly9631

    Charly9631 Think! Think! Think!

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    And Cat Fishin' also has 2 Turner Prints :
    1. The PAL version has a thin blue-purple (just like the border color of @A-Cecil's recreation of The Frame Cat) that doesn't fade out after the MGM Logo. 2017-10-14 22.27.49.png 2017-10-14 22.30.30.png 2017-10-14 22.33.39.png

    2. The NTSC version has a slightly thicker border than the PAL, and it has a dark blue color other than the blue-purple color. It fades out after the MGM logo, but it remains the same color in the title card. 2017-10-14 22.27.20.png 2017-10-14 22.30.04.png 2017-10-14 22.33.15.png

    And of course, the color also alternate between the NTSC version and the PAL version.
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    Any nice guy from the UK could buy the MGM tape featuring Cock-a-Doodle Dog on eBay? It won't ship outside UK and it's the ONLY MGM cartoon tape I'm missing.
     

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