"Marvel's Hulk and The Agents of S.M.A.S.H" News & Discussion Thread, Part 2 (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey Administrator

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    Hulk smashes into action in the exciting Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. animated series from Marvel Animation and Disney XD! Use this thread - the second installment in this ongoing discussion - to converse about the latest news and rumors for this smashing animated series.

    [​IMG]
    Sundays at 11:00am (ET) on Disney XD.
    Marvel's Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. Series Description:

    Stay tuned for further updates!

    Previous Discussion:
    Marvel's Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. News & Discussion Thread, Part One (Spoilers)

    Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion. Keep your posts the thoughtful, relevant and insightful. Do not post any improper or inflammatory material, in addition to conducting yourself in a proper and civilized manner. And please, don't post for just the sake of posting. Have something of worth to add to the conversation. We will issue warnings and infractions if we believe it necessary. Remember, keep discussions ON-TOPIC!
     
  2. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    That's one of the main problems with this concept for this show (and the current comics). Another problem is that a family of Hulks makes Hulk even less unique (we already had unique takes on the Hulk in the MU with She-Hulk,Abomination,and Doc Samson). IMO, I rather the other Agents of SMASH be either existing or original characters with different powers than the Hulk. Heck they could even have gotten their powers from gamma radiation (although I'd prefer them to get their powers from various different sources). The basic concept for this series is sound, but I think that the execution might not be so sound.
     
  3. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator

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    Well, I don't mind their take, as such - I mean, I'm willing to keep an open mind until there are a few episodes broadcast, and to be pleasantly surprised (for example, I'm quite pleased at being surprised how decent MAA is out of the gate).
     
  4. macattack

    macattack I see you!

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    I agree with your sentiment, Spyke. Doc Samson, human Rick and Betty, and Jennifer. Those were Hulk's "family". Red Hulk has spent most of his life trying to destroy Bruce, which makes this team-up arrangement really strange. I can't imagine Red Hulk willingly burying the hatchet against Bruce or the Hulk. In Avengers: EMH, Red Hulk's hatred for Bruce was quite clear. "IS THAT ALL? I'VE WAITED FOR THIS MOMENT! ALL I'VE WANTED IS THIS MOMENT! Now, NOW, I'M STRONGER!" That was very effective and it'd be more interesting if it was like that here.

    I think if they really wanted to make things interesting, they should've brought Thundra and Lyra in. Especially if Lyra's past was mucked around so she knows Bruce better than Thundra (maybe even was raised by Bruce). She could be the cute (and info-dumping) scientist girl who can hulk out and kick ass if necessary, but first and foremost, be Hulk's morality pet, the embodiment of Hulk's vow to be a better hero. This would be really effective because Lyra is the Hulk's daughter. And in the background, there is always Thundra, trying to pull Lyra in to a life of evil. It'd be like Goliath versus Demona in Gargoyles, except even more personal.

    Alas, I don't write the show.

    Also, if the trailer is any indication, Skaar may be the one doing all of the Hulkspeak in the show. That is highly out of character for Skaar, time will tell if that holds up though.
     
  5. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator

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    I don't know if I brought it up, and I'm someone has already, but does anyone think this show is giving Hulk too much overexposure. I mean he's my favorite character and all, but he has this show, is a regular character in Avengers Assemble, and appears quite a few times in Ultimate Spider-Man. I mean, this is kind of the first time one character has appeared in several shows that are in production and airing simultaneously. And I hope this doesn't lead to over-saturation.
     
  6. macattack

    macattack I see you!

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    I largely don't think it matters as I believe Agents of SMASH is DOA. I've explained my reasons for believing this in the first thread but I will rehash them if requested. But the biggest kicker is that Paul Dini has returned to working on Ultimate Spider-Man Season 3, a series in which he has been absent for a long time to work on this Hulk series.
     
  7. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Active Member

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    Ross is still fairly antagonistic but he's shown himself willing to be a team player and fight along the side of the angels, even if he uses shady methods.
     
  8. Venom Melendez

    Venom Melendez New Member

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    Hulk's family has taken many forms, including one similar to this one. In recent times, Banner has come to accept Ross as an ally as well, even if they don't always get along.

    And if Betty does show up, i do hope is as Red She-Hulk. She has become a hero in her own right.

    And Rick Jones has been given Super powers several times before and he actually works great as A-Bomb.

    They do not make the Hulk less unique and the Hulk has never been the only Gamma mutate. They also don't all have the same powers or abilities as Hulk, they all have powers and skills that Hulk doesn't, they all have something that sets them apart.

    And characters in Hulk related stories usually get their powers via Gamma radiation, it comes with the territory.So even if they used original characters (Which seems pointless with all the heroic Gamma mutates), they would have still gotten their powers from Gamma radiation. In any event, this line up works fine. Though it would have been nice to see Lyra or Doc Samson.

    I wouldn't be so sure, they are doing a lot to promote it.And just because Dini is doing an episode of USM doesn't mean he's leaving this one. Heck, Dini even seems rather excited about Agents of SMASH.


    Hulk/Banner and Ross have worked together in the past and have buried the hatchet recently. Besides, chances are, they probably still won't be on the best of terms on this show.

    That is a very interesting idea, though i'm not sure about making Thundra evil. She's usually on the Anti-Heroic side, though loyal to her world/timeline.



    On the other hand, it did take a few issues of Son of Hulk until Skaar finally started talking. Eh, i'll judge this base on what Skaar's story on the show will be.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  9. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator

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    I was going to comment until I realized that you didn't mean "classic" Thundra (whose a member of the Frightful Four in the USM continuity) and that I didn't know what I was talking about...

    ...not that its ever stopped me before... /rimshot
     
  10. Frontier

    Frontier Active Member

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    There's always the chance that this version of Ross, the one existing in the whole SMASH, Assemble, and Ultimate continuity, wasn't as antagonistic to the Hulk as his comic self.
     
  11. macattack

    macattack I see you!

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    I think the problem people have with the SMASH lineup is that the diversity of powers that gamma radiation has done to characters in Marvel isn't really there. All five of the Hulks have the same basis: smashing things physically. Yeah, there's subtle differences. She-Hulk is a lightning bruiser, Red Hulk is using BFGs, Skaar is using a BFS. But there's nothing dramatically different.

    Doc Samson has long gotten the shaft in animation. His arc basically got aborted in both of his animated appearances, in the 90's Hulk series (Samson doesn't even show up in Season 2), and Avengers EMH. It would be nice for him to actually be a substantive character in a cartoon.

    The reason why I believe SMASH is DOA is no toyline. Lately, the toyline being nonexistent or bombing has done in action cartoons left and right. The consolidation of the industry and action cartoons generally struggling in general is making it borderline impossible for an action cartoon to survive for long without merchandise. USM and Avengers Assemble have huge merch pushes going on, but SMASH has nothing. And unless you're a show like Korra, there's not a significant enough adult fanbase to support the series through DVD/Blu-Ray releases. Plus, there's the rumors that SMASH was retooled significantly and the year-plus delay in when the show was originally intended to air and when it actually will air. This series cost a ton of money in all likelihood and there's few ways to recoup it. Thus, I believe SMASH will only get the one season.

    Also, the episode of Season 3 Dini was confirmed to write is the season premiere. It's a hint Dini's influence may be bigger in USM.

    I suppose you're right about Red Hulk. We need to see how things shake out in the show itself.

    Thundra in this Marvel Animated Universe is evil. She was part of the Frightful Four on USM. That's where I was basing my idea off of.

    Thundra is a dimensional-hopping queen of another dimension. She's probably aware Bruce has turned into the Hulk in other dimensions. In my scenario, Thundra sought out a fresh-out-of-college Bruce and got the relations she wanted (or if that's unacceptable, she just stole Bruce's genetic material), and had Lyra. Then when it was time for the gamma accident to create the Hulk, Thundra put a young Lyra within range so Lyra would get exposed, creating Thundra's desired warrior or so she thinks. But Thundra had to leave Lyra alone (after all, Thundra doesn't want to be exposed to gamma radiation too, it'll kill her). During the chaos of Bruce's first Hulkout, Thundra loses track of Lyra, but little does she know Lyra and Hulk have encountered each other, and Lyra's presence soothes the Hulk and Hulk takes Lyra away. Bruce is curious how Lyra survived the gamma radiation, so he does blood tests, and eventually finds out Lyra is his child. Years pass, Lyra becomes a worldly teenager, and she has a calming presence that has kept the Hulk from basically destroying everything in sight because the Hulk recognizes Lyra as his daughter too and he doesn't want to make Lyra sad or disappointed. Thundra, meanwhile, continues to search for Lyra, and Thundra is using the Frightful Four as a means to an end to get what she wants.

    Bruce and Jen don't have to be forty in this scenario (plus they age slower anyway), Rick is in his mid-twenties at the time of SMASH, and we have a different take on Lyra that makes Lyra more likable and human. It works out.

    True. Right now, Skaar's initial role is to be Annihilus' chief thug, and that is obviously not going to stick. We'll soon see.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  12. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    First off all, I never said that Hulk was or has been the only gamma mutate in the comics (which I assume that you were talking about). I have been reading comics (including various runs on the HULK comic) for over 30 years. So I'm quite aware of the supporting characters and villains in the Hulk comics and how they got their powers.

    Secondly, the fact that every member of the SMASH team is a Hulk and has super strength,invulnerability,and the ability to leap great heights (to various degrees) does make the Hulk less unique. Sure, some of them have some unique individual powers or weapons, but they all have Hulk's basic power set. The creation of Red Hulk,A Bomb,Skaar,Red She-Hulk,and Lyra was (IMO) both a bad and stupid idea. Marvel went the DC route and went over board with it.

    Apparently you didn't read my post carefully. Not only did I acknowledge/point out/mention that there have been various characters in Hulk related stories that have gotten their powers from gamma radiation, I also listed some of them. I also said that I would be perfectly fine if the other Agents of SMASH were either existing or brand new characters (with their own unique powers) who had gotten their powers from gamma radiation (like those survivors from that town the Leader destroyed when he detonated a gamma bomb during PAD's brilliant first run on the INCREDIBLE HULK).

    I could do without seeing Lyra, but I''m all for seeing Doc Samson appear. Heck, Samson could even be the team's psychologist.
     
  13. Venom Melendez

    Venom Melendez New Member

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    Yeah,but they do have their differences, so it's not like they don't each stand out. They each have different skills and personalities that set them apart from the others. You even have Skaar with the Old Power and Rick with his armored Skin and Invisibility. Ross is a soldier, Jen is a lawyer, etc.

    True. It would be cool if he does show up in the show. Maybe have him show up with Geiger(She would be great for this show now that i think about it).

    But if that is the case, why delay it at all? They could have aired it last fall and they would have burned through the episodes by now.

    Hint and May being the key words though.


    I love this idea. And i'm guessing Thundra would be the leader of the Frightful Four in this version? Though why not seek out Bruce after the Gamma accident?

    I strongly disagree, it certainly has worked wonders for General Ross and Betty, mostly thanks to Greg Pak and Jeff Parker for making great stories with them and making it work. Heck, just finally seeing Betty being able to punch Blonsky in the face after all the stuff he put her through over the years made it worth it.
     
  14. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    Here's the thing that you and some other fans (and fans turned creator) don't seem to get. Their are certain things that should NEVER (or at the very least, only be temporary) be done to these characters because it alters and/or takes away an important aspect from the characters/comics that made them work in the past. Just look at the continuing falling sales and cancellation of the Hulk related comics if you don't believe me. Creator's need to know how to "write in the middle" and do new things that will work for the characters/comics in the long term, not the short term.
     
  15. macattack

    macattack I see you!

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    My complaint is based on the fact that the entire team is based on brute force. Even if Doc Samson, Geiger, Lyra, and Betty were here, the team would still be based on brute force. But that's the unavoidable flaw of having a team of gamma mutates. Nearly all gamma mutates are based on brute force as their base power.

    The thing with Geiger is that her and Doc Samson are a package deal. Geiger absorbs gamma radiation around her and she takes on characteristics of the gamma mutates around her, including shades of their personalities. That'd be really interesting to see pulled off on-screen, but Doc Samson has to be there for Geiger (or Geiger's VA XD) to not completely lose her mind. Of course, they can alter her powers for the show if it's too complicated to consistently portray on screen and "lock" her into being Doc Samson-esque.

    Your guess is as good as mine on why they opted to delay and (likely) retool instead of continuing with what they had. Perhaps they thought they'd have a better shot at a merchandise deal if they retooled aspects of the show or something. Whatever the case, SMASH has nothing supporting or funding it, and I don't think SMASH will be able to get the Korra-sized adult fanbase to keep the show alive through DVDs/Blu-Rays. Hence, I believe SMASH is a one-and-done deal.

    Oh, Thundra would seek out Bruce. But would she find Bruce? That is the question. In my scenario, Thundra spent years chasing after Bruce and Lyra, but Bruce lived in hiding and we all know Bruce is good at disappearing until the Hulk inevitably emerges and smashes something. Obviously, when the Hulk smashes something Thundra would hear about it and rush to the site, but the thing is that Hulk has these mile-long leaps. It doesn't take the Hulk long to vanish from the place where he smashed, even taking into account finding Lyra and leaping away with her. At best, Thundra wouldn't catch more than a glimpse of her daughter and the Hulk before the Hulk would leap away and Thundra would be back at square one. Years of this would be absolutely soul-crushing to Thundra and further strengthen the Goliath/Demona-esque animosity. Meanwhile, Lyra slips further and further away from the warrior Thundra wanted Lyra to be, instead Bruce effectively home-schools her and Lyra becomes an intelligent girl, effectively Bruce's apprentice. Thundra for her part is forced to stick with the Frightful Four, although she has designs on taking it over and becoming much more of a threat to the world. It's likely that Thundra would usurp control of the Four from Wizard early in my scenario.

    The thing is that Greg Pak and especially Jeff Parker's stories struggled to sell. Jeff Parker's Red She-Hulk didn't even last a full year. People didn't buy their stuff, and they didn't buy their stuff no matter how much critical acclaim they had is because they're disposed against the characters being featured. Loeb's Red Hulk (and Red She-Hulk for that matter) was not a good character and unfortunately that was readers' first impression of the Red Hulk. So people don't want to read about Red Hulk or Red She-Hulk.

    I personally believe both Marvel and DC have been doing this way too much lately. I love changes to the status quo but there's some things about these characters that are sacrosanct, that make the characters who they are. I think the entire Red Hulk thing was completely unnecessary and had to be rescued by better writers after the fact.
     
  16. suss2it

    suss2it New Member

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    The thing is the entire premise of the show is that its about a family of Hulks. So yeah everyone is a Hulk and has brute strength and whatever. That's the whole point! If you want an action show with a more diverse line-up that's what Avengers Assemble and to a much lesser extent Ultimate Spider-Man are for.

    Agreed that Red She-Hulk can't carry a series, but Rulk definitely can. Pretty sure his series was a bestseller when Loeb was writing it. I think it on the decline (sales wise, quality wise it definitely went up) when Parker took over.
     
  17. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    Loeb's RULK run was a top seller SOLELY because Ed McGuines was drawing it. And RULK can't carry his own book, which is why the series was retitled RED SHE-Hulk (which will be canceled in a month or two.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2013
  18. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    This show definitely looks a heck of a lot better than AVENGERS ASSEMBLE. Here's a clip from (I think) the first episode.

    'Marvel's Hulk and the Agents of SMASH' Sneak Peek - Hollywood Reporter

    I think that this show (despite the problems I have with the team being made up entirely of Hulks) might end up being a sleeper hit both critically and in the ratings.
     
  19. Kumori MC

    Kumori MC New Member

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    Hopefully She-Hulk won't end up being the punching bag of the team like she did in this video.
     
  20. supergirl's pal

    supergirl's pal Give us a SBFF Animated Series

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    She-Hulk looks and sounds good in this, but we need more female cast members and guest stars in this to keep her from being the lone female voice in this show. I do like your idea for Lyra Macattack! I want to see Betty in this too.
     

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