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Marvel's Avengers Ultron Revolution "Thunderbolts Revealed" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by RoyalRubble, Apr 17, 2016.

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Rate & Discuss this Avengers Ultron Revolution episode!

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  1. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Tune in for a new episode of Marvel's Avengers Ultron Revolution, today at 8:30AM ET on Disney XD! The truth behind the Thunderbolts is revealed!

    [​IMG]
    Marvel's Avengers Ultron Revolution "Thunderbolts Revealed"
    Episode Debut - April 17th, 2016
    Directed by: Tim Eldred
    Written by: Kevin Shinick

    When the Avengers discover that the Thunderbolts are actually the Masters of Evil, they must decide whether they can trust the villainous team to turn on their leader, Baron Zemo, and help capture him.

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    Mod Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
  2. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Marble

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    Oh my God the Thunderbolts were really the Masters of Evil.

    Seriously, though this could've benefited from more build up with the other Thunderbolts questioning their positions before this episode.
     
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  3. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Well-Known Member

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    The idea of smaller arcs is a good one but I think these two episodes being later in the season from the first two would have helped. Yeah things went too fast with the bolts.
     
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  4. ChessKing

    ChessKing Active Member

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    I'm Confused. Are the Avengers Assemble/Ultron Revolution and Ultimate Spider-Man Animated shows set in the same universe because Klaw appeared first in Ultimate Spider-Man as a member of the Frightful Four and he has just appeared in this episode of Avengers and his looks in both shows are completely different.

    Apart from that it as a great episode and I can't wait for the next.
     
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  5. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Pretty good episode and a nice conclusion to the Thunderbolts arc, even if they kind of rushed through some things. The Thunderbolts were pretty awesome overall, and I would have liked seeing more of them on the show before their inevitable reveal as the Masters of Evil. Doing the story in only two episodes did make things a little less exciting than they should have been, at least for me. Plus the fact that I think it was obvious to just about every viewer out there who the Thunderbolts really are.

    The biggest surprise for me in this episode was the inclusion of Klaw. I liked the fights with him, and his updated and evolved look for the show. The fights did get a little tedious as they dragged on a little too much, but I thought it was pretty cool they added him to the story. I liked how Zemo planned on using him and his powers from the start, that was a nice touch and just adds to how much of a mastermind this version of Zemo can be. The way Klaw was defeated was kind of tiresome as well, since Captain America and Songbird used pretty much the same attack five times in the same episode. It did lead to some nice animated moments but it was just too repetitive.

    We did get to see some foreshadowing that Screaming Mimi/Songbird might get a change of heart back in "Under Siege", but the other Thunderbolts' decision to turn against Zemo felt a little too forced. Another reason this entire arc should have lasted more than a couple of episodes. The fight scenes were good and just about each character had a chance to shine this time, which is pretty impressive considering the large number of characters featured in this episode. Zemo's defeat was kind of underwhelming, since it was basically another round against Klaw. I hope we haven't seen the last of Zemo, since he was a pretty awesome villain overall.

    The dialogue was pretty good this time and the interactions between most of the characters were fun. I liked how Cap started to trust Songbird, and how she was the first one to turn against Zemo. Also liked Meteorite's "whatever" catchphrase (which Black Widow also used towards the end). And, for some reason, I found it funny how Zemo just pushed Megan McLaren off that platform. :p

    All things considered, a pretty good way to end the Thunderbolts two-part story and hint that they might return later on as full-time heroes. It was rushed, and not as great as some of the other episodes this season (my favorite remains "Saving Captain Rogers", for now), but what we got was still pretty good and a fun little adventure.
     
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  6. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Marble

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    The shows are in the same universe, but continuity is not particularly strict. Appearances can change on a whim or to make characters line up more closely with the films.
     
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  7. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    So much death recently. First Swarm, then Baron Mordo, many of the Spartax soldiers, now Klaw and Baron (Helmut) Zemo? Just last year, Thanos, Ronan, and the Supreme Intelligence were killed off as well.

    Yeah, no one ever stays dead in most Marvel universes, but still the body count as of yet continues to rise.
     
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  8. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    For anyone curious, Klaw was voiced by David Shaughnessy here. I think Matt Lanter voiced him back on USM.

    Episode credits:
     
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  9. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I though this was a pretty strong and enjoyable episode, and a solid conclusion to this arc. While I do think it would've been more effective had we moved up the Thunderbolts' appearance down the line and not rushed the development of the group and the reveal so that their change to heroism would seem more believable and genuine, it was still great to finally see The Thunderbolts in animation and watch them really become heroes. Some great action, character moments, and an inspirational speech from Cap, didn't hurt either ;).

    Klaw was a nice surprise, as was seeing him redesigned after MCU/Andy Serkis Klaue. Setting aside the fact that he was completely redesigned and had a whole different voice from his USM incarnation, I thought he was used pretty effectively in this episode. He certainly gave a surprisingly good challenge to The Avengers and Thunderbolts, and the way they showcased his powers and how varied and strong they can be was really cool :cool:.

    What were they doing locking him up in Avengers Tower though? Were they going to interrogate him? Shouldn't they have just turned him over to SHIELD? Can The Avengers just do that o_O?

    Songbird was probably the biggest highlight of the episode for me, next to The Avengers and the The Thunberolts teaming up to take down Zemo. Seeing her prove herself as a hero and make a real change of heart, the most believable of all the Thunderbolts because it actually had some organic build-up, and inspire and lead the team to rebel against Zemo was pretty awesome. She also proved vital to helping save the day and stop both Zemo and Klaw. That girl's got a lot of heart and a lot of potential, and I hope we see more of her in the future :D.

    I also liked (however unintentional it may have been) that they seemed to pair or show her alongside Mach-IV most of the time :anime:.

    I'm really wondering how The Thunderbolts' costumes work. Are they really wearing different costumes, or are they just wearing their original Masters of Evil suits and just using Tony's tech to look different? Does it feel like they're wearing different outfits, especially given Songbird moves from a dress with a skirt to a skintight bodysuit and those clunky helmets Moonstone and Fixer wear that they're missing as Meteorite and Techno? Is Songbird what she really looks like without the Screaming Mimi makeup? Is that Fixer and Goliath's real faces? What does Beetle/Mach-IV really look like? So many questions :confused:.

    I kinda have to doubt the logic behind Zemo's plans...even without The Avengers, there's still Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, and all the SHIELD Academy kids in New York, so it's not like Citizen V could ever be the sole hero of the city to help carry out whatever his endgame plan was. Unless he had plans for them already :eek:.

    Zemo using Klaw's powers to amplify his own and take on both teams was pretty cool, though it honestly kind of fizzled it out once he transformed into a giant Klaw sound monster. But I doubt he and Klaw are really dead, especially given this is Zemo we're talking about and they just ended up being dispersed. I wouldn't be surprised if Klaw shows up down the line once we get to Black Panther's introduction, given their relationship and the Wakanda references in the episode, and it would be cool if Zemo comes back with a new Masters of Evil group to replace the Thunderbolts. Though maybe the creators will want less competition for Ultron :p?

    It figures the Thunderbolts would still have to turn themselves in before they could really go straight. Even if they hadn't really committed any crimes (though I guess working with Zemo counts), Zemo probably broke them out of prison to carry out his plans, so they likely still have to serve out their sentences. At least helping The Avengers stop Zemo will probably work in their favor :).

    Though I wonder what Hawkeye meant when he knew a place they should go? Maybe SHIELD employment? I pity The Thunderbolts if they end up having to go through SHIELD Academy before they can be proper heroes. Especially Mach-IV, given he has a...difficult history with some of the student body and especially the current head of the Academy :sweat:.

    Hawkeye Screw-Up Counter: Hey, I couldn't find anything! Nice job writers. Clint also had some good moments with Songbird in this episode. Though Hawkeye being so untrusting of the Thunderbolts, while paying off, felt like a step-back given how mistrusting he was of Arsenal and Ant-Man in season 2 and how he got over that :shrug:.
     
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    #9 Frontier, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  10. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    It kind of makes sense to have Klaw in his Age of Ultron look on a show titled Ultron Revolution.

    Did anyone else think the Avengers were supposed to be in Wakanda, or somewhere near it, in that jungle at the start of the episode? It would have worked as some nice foreshadowing for Black Panther's eventual appearance on the show.
     
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  11. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Marble

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    There aren't really any convincing jails to put these guys in, so exploding them (until they get put back together) is one way to get rid of them until the writers feel like using them again.
     
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  12. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I'm starting to wonder if that "fate" an Avenger faces by the end of the season that Wacker teased might be Hawkeye being forced to lead the Thunderbolts, like in the comics. Which wouldn't be that bad, come to think of it, but knowing Clint he'd complain about it anyways :p.

    It does, but it's still kinda jarring to go from comic!Klaw in USM to Andy Serkis' Klaw. Just like it was jarring when Collector went from comic!Collector to Benicio Del Toro and the revamps the Guardians were given :sweat:.

    I was kinda expecting that Zemo's plan would eventually lead Klaw getting his comic look or turning into the being of pure sound he is in the comics, and from a certain standpoint that did happen. He just had to go through a weird phase of being a giant rock monster o_O.

    I didn't think they were in Wakanda, but I thought the mentions of Wakanda and the big role Vibranium played in the episode were nice teases to Panther's future appearance :cool:.

    It's been really inconsistent and vague where Supervillains are locked up in this universe.

    USM had all the villains locked up on the Tricarrier, which is kind of a really dumb idea when you think about it, while SMASH actually introduced and used the Raft for like two episodes. And now they just throw Klaw into that one Avengers cell they have in the tower :confused:.
     
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    #12 Frontier, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
  13. Roxas_Sora

    Roxas_Sora Well-Known Member

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    I have several commentaries about this episode:

    1º) So, now we have the Klaw from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and we already saw him with his artificial arm/weapon. I'm pretty sure Klaw will appear again in the movie of the "Black Panther", question is, do you think he will look like when he was covered by Vibranium? Also, this causes a continuity problem. We have seen several times the classic Klaw before, mainly in "Ultimate Spider-Man" as member of the Frightful Four, and one in the very first episode of "Avengers Assemble". Don't you think this causes a lot of problems?

    2º) "Don't worry about Hulk!!", he said. Well, why would people do? I mean, he's "the strongest one there is", so it's obvious that falling from the Avengers Tower won't hurt him. I understand his position, but would you worry about him not surviving something so insignificant for him?

    3º) Well, Thunderbolts have been officially reformed. Unfortunately, I believe this will cause a problem. Do you wanna bet that the Thunderbolts will return again to fight the Avengers in the Civil War's arc? I mean, I can see them being ordered to seize the Avengers when they refuse to registration. Don't you think?

    4º) Following the history of comics, I wanna bet a new "Masters of Evil" will return in the future, possibly manipulated by Ultron as the "Crimson Shroud" or something. Only this time, I'm quite sure it will a group worthier of the name, more similar to "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes". Ultron could be one member, Klaw and Baron Zemo others. Who else?, Abommination, Skurge, Whiplash, Grim Reaper and Crossbones come to mind.

    5º) I thought I would never see this day, but the Beetle has finally spoken. Now, don't you think this takes one of Spider-Man's greatest enemies from his gallery? I mean, someone else could take his old armor and become a new Beetle, but still. I wonder if this could give us the future debut of the Spider-Slayers. Don't you think?

    6º) I'm with Cap. I don't know where the webs Zemo went, but you can bet on that we haven't seen the last of him. I wouldn't be surprised if Ultron brings him and Klaw back.

    Well, what do you think?

    PD: TheLemsterPju, what makes you think Baron Mordo died? Haven't you see the videogame "Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions"? Well, I think this is the same case, only Baron Mordo took the place of the Tablet of Order and Chaos.
     
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  14. Dustellar

    Dustellar Active Member

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    I don't like when the synergy generates inconsistencies in the continuity of the animated universe... what's next? Zemo returns without explanation, looking like Daniel Brühl and with his MCU origin? if a character already exists in your animated universe and already has an origin, don't change it!! although to be honest, I wish they do that to Falcon... Avengers Assemble Falcon is my least favorite Falcon!
     
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  15. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    Pretty good episode, if a bit rushed. I genuinely chuckled at Hulk passively aggressively complaining about how nobody was there to catch him.

    Klaw will be back when Black Panther shows up, I am willing to bet money it. And now he'll be in his energy form. And Captain America even said he's sure Zemo isn't really dead.
     
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    #15 RoryWilliams, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
  16. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Well, I wouldn't be too worried about that since it doesn't look like there's going to be much for them to mine from Civil War Zemo and they've already gone with the classic version and made good use of him ;).

    Plus, we've never really seen Zemo's face, so I doubt they're just going to randomly have him take off his mask just to show use he looks like Daniel Bruhl :p.
     
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    #16 Frontier, Apr 17, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  17. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    A bit rushed, but I'm actually glad the Thunderbolts betrayed Zemo. Why work for a man who blackmails you? Also, Cap and Mimi make a pretty good team.

    The biggest (pleasant) surprise for me was that they didn't escape jail, though. Turned over a new leaf or not, they have some crimes to answer for, and I thought the writers were gonna forget that.
     
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  18. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I wonder if they'll ever address Mach-IV being practically mute all these years as Beetle? Especially when he apparently doesn't have any problem talking in the Beetle armor in this episode :sweat:.
    Well, he did get them to believe in themselves as individuals and as a group when he first met them, and was instrumental in training and making them into the Thunderbolts in the first place (even if it was only further his plans), so you'd at least expect some loyalty there :ack:.

    Same here. While it's a little hard to see that happen to them after their change of heart, especially Songbird, it's the right thing to do.

    At the very least they're guilty of aiding and abetting Zemo, and potentially breaking out of prison. Though after their actions in this episode and as the Thunderbolts, and with The Avengers vouching for them, I imagine they'll get at least some leniency ;).
     
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  19. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    Beetle did talk a couple times in Ultimate Spider-Man, but I recall he had a different voice back then, with Steven Blum doing his limited dialogue, but normally he was mute.

    I liked how they resolved this storyline. I liked that the Avengers and Hawkeye ultimately outsmarted Zemo and the Masters of Evil and got the drop on them. It's nice to see heroes being proactive and not so gullible for once. But the resolution with some of the Masters liking playing heroes and deciding to stay that way. That's ultimately what happened in the comics. Except Zemo had enough time to enact his whole plan to take over the Earth and brainwashed all the Avengers. Except the remaining Thunderbolts decided to turn on him to stop him. It worked but they got teleported to another planet before they could face their charges. After they came back, Hawkeye decided to follow them and joined the team and became their new leader.

    Anyway, if you get the chance, I highly recommend checking out the first run on Thunderbolts by Kurt Busiek and Mark Bagley. It's really good stuff.

    Also what kind of accent was that for Klaw? Sounded like a bizarre mix of South African, Australian and East Europe.
     
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  20. BlackoutCreature

    BlackoutCreature Well-Known Member

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    I found it funny when the Avengers and Thunderbolts revealed that Citizen V was Baron Zemo and all the people in the crowd gasped in astonishment... despite the fact that there really is no reason why the general public in this universe should have any idea who Baron Zemo is.

    I know continuity isn't a major concern among the shows but I really hope they address Beetle's past at some point. He was a pretty significant villain in those early Ultimate Spider-Man episodes, was a member of the original Sinister Six and even had a personal rivalry with Coulson. I've gotta imagine him claiming to be reformed and wanting to be a hero isn't gonna sit well with a lot of people.
     
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    #20 BlackoutCreature, Apr 18, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016

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