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Marvel's Avengers: Secret Wars "Avengers No More, Parts 1-2" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by RoyalRubble, Jun 17, 2017.

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Rate and Discuss the Season 4 Premiere of "Avengers Assemble"!

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  1. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Tune in for the premiere of the 4th season of Marvel's Avengers Assemble. Avengers: Secret Wars debuts today on Disney XD, with two episodes starting at 11:30 AM ET!

    [​IMG]
    Marvel's Avengers: Secret Wars "Avengers No More, Part 1"
    Episode Debut - June 17th, 2017
    Written by - Elliott Casey
    Directed by - Tim Eldred

    While trying to rescue Tony Stark from another dimension, the Avengers battle the Leader and his newly formed Cabal.

    Marvel's Avengers: Secret Wars "Avengers No More, Part 2"
    Episode Debut - June 17th, 2017
    Written by - Gavin Hignight
    Directed by - Micah Gunnell

    Black Panther assembles a new team of Avengers to stop the Leader and free the original Avengers.

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    Related Discussions:

    "Avengers: Secret Wars" Digital Shorts Talkback (Spoilers)
    Marvel's Avengers Ultron Revolution "Civil War, Parts 1-4" Talkback (Spoilers)
     
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    #1 RoyalRubble, Jun 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  2. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    Called it that the blond woman was Jane!
     
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  3. SweetShop209

    SweetShop209 Well-Known Member

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    That was awesome!
     
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  4. BlackoutCreature

    BlackoutCreature Well-Known Member

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    Wait, I'm confused. If the Cabal could do that to the Avengers why didn't they do it like 10 minutes after they captured them? And why did they bother to play along with the Leader in the first place?
     
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  5. Marvel/DCfan

    Marvel/DCfan Member

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    Those were good episodes and the action was very entertaining
     
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  6. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    Did Scott ever refer to Wasp as "Hope" in Part Two?
     
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  7. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    No, but I'll give this much, she sure doesn't act like her.

    Anyway, this two parter was okay. The animation did improve by an angle but it could still use a bit more work (and less camera panning) and it did have a clever twist at the end with the Cabal (though I swear if the real leader is Ultron...) and the new characters were pretty fun; although much of the dialogue is very... VERY cringing, even by AA standards.

    Good to also see Fryda Wolff and Erica Lindbeck branch into more union-based animation voice over work btw; that and it's always a treat to see the other avengers in the spotlight. Almost makes me wish they replace the roster for good. (thought I'm just being a snarky little turkey)
     
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    #7 Troy Troodon, Jun 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  8. TheLemsterPju

    TheLemsterPju Well-Known Member

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    Finally saw this.

    1.) Really nice bit of continuity having the Cabal's ship being the Leader's space vessel from Hulk and the Agents of S.M.A.S.H. :)

    2.) The "direwolves" (or one of them rather) are finally named as such. They last appeared all the way back in USM's first season.

    3.) Is it too much to hope that "Hope" is actually Janet? Because I would be okay with that, even if she was with Scott.

    4.) I sincerely wish the animation was staged a little better. If it was Voltron/Korra level of presentation, maybe the scenes that were intended as dramatic would leave more of an impact...

    5.) A lot of cringey, uncharismatic dialogue, I won't lie...
     
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  9. Capt.Traphouse

    Capt.Traphouse Sexiest Thing Since Sex

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    The fights were cool, story was whatever. The CABAL sucked, Black Panther was awesome but he shouldn't be able to even hurt Skurge or Kang with a punch. Skurge was a lightweight. Lol. He and Kang got hit with the nerf bat hard!

    Antman pulling Skurge's ear was fun though.

    Enchantress was cool and super competent, though her voice lacked charisma. The Leader making fun of Hydra was cool though lol and he's a fun villain.
    Jane was so cool. As a fan of Jane Thor I'm glad it looks like they're setting that up.

    The betrayal of the Leader was awesome.
     
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    #9 Capt.Traphouse, Jun 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  10. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It is very clearly Hope.

    Anyway, it was fun but I had some gripes. As mentioned, Black Panther was an ABSOLUTE BOSS, but being able to take Kang and Skurge hand-to-hand was a little much (though not quite as egregious as Black Widow being able to fight Zarda). And like someone else said, the Cabal's plan kind of relied on that classic Bond Villain Stupidity, where the villains have the heroes captive but still keep them alive for an ungodly amount of time for no discernible reason. Though I guess that aspect at least got subverted in that the heroes didn't get free this time. And like a lot of attempts at character arcs in this show, Thor's sacrificial personality turn was too rushed. It would have been better if that attitude was something we actually got to see develop last season rather than just springing it on us here. A lot of the one-liners during the fights were also horrendous.

    On the pro column, I really dug Enchantress' design and the new voice actress. I also had a lot of problems with the Cabal (especially Kang of all people) taking orders from the Leader, so I must say I genuinely enjoyed the twist at the end where they revealed they were simply manipulating him. I'm interested to see what their wider plan is and what their endgame is. I also really like this take on Jane and was surprised she had such a large role right off the bat. I wonder how long they are gonna wait before having her lift the hammer.
     
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  11. General Mike

    General Mike Member

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    I liked it. A lot of questions coming out of this one.

    If Leader is not the leader of the Cabal, who really is the leader? ;)
    How was Captain Marvel able to drink a Capri Sun in space?
    Will we see Songbird ever again?
    Where did Mjolnir fly off to?

    As far as the Cabal goes, Zola is my least favorite of all the major Hydra villains you can get, and they would have been better with him not fighting one on one, but throwing lots of his creations at the Avengers whether it was the Synthezoids in USM or the Doughboys in A;EMH. Mark Hamill did a great job with the voice. I don't think Skurge looked as bad as some do, he was doing okay against Vision and BP until the other 4 Avengers showed up. Enchantress really looked strong in this one as she really wrecked havoc. This version of Kang is weak, but I'll go with the theory that he is the 30th century version, instead of the 40th century version.

    Miss Marvel was super cute in this one, especially her line about them needing to get their stories in order after the Avengers Mansion got destroyed. Also good to see Ant-Man come up with the plan to infiltrate Leader's space ship.
     
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  12. Dustellar

    Dustellar Active Member

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    She's Hope but with Jan personality... because we don't need another Black Widow or Gamora! I'm ok with her being Hope, a Jan/Scott relationship would be even more insulting for me.
     
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  13. General Mike

    General Mike Member

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    It's interesting that we only had one female hero on this show for so long, and now we have 4, plus Jane Foster on the horizon and maybe Songbird is floating around somewhere hopefully, and they all seem to have very different personalities.
     
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  14. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Moderator
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    Pretty good way to start the new season. It had a decent story and some entertaining action scenes, as well as set up plots for future episodes. I didn't care much for the new Cabal though it was nice seeing Amora the Enchantress and Skurge the Executioner again. Kang the Conqueror, Arnim Zola and the Leader were decent but just didn't really leave that big of an impression on me. I liked the twist that Leader wasn't well, their true leader, it makes sense considering the villains assembled here though I wonder how long until we find out who they're really working for.

    Black Panther was awesome. Pretty much all of his scenes were great and it was cool how he's now basically the leader of the "all-new, all-different" Avengers. The new team line-up is pretty good, though it's about the same characters introduced in the last season and who played a bigger role in the Civil War arc. I like the new members, don't really have a favorite but it should be fun seeing some new faces on the show after so many episodes without any major changes to the hero roster. I think each of the new heroes got a chance to show off his or her powers and skills in this story.

    Thor's story-arc in the first part of the episode was kind of understandable but I felt they kind of rushed through it. The action scenes were good, they had some nice choreography and the only real complaint I can think of would be the animation quality, which is still kind of lackluster. The dialogue was also pretty bad at times, even more so than in previous episodes, I think. Still, I enjoyed this premiere for the most part.

    It was great they finally introduced Jane Foster, it's been a long time coming. Now to wait until Peggy Carter shows up. :p That bit at the end with Thor's hammer was a cool way to end the episode and foreshadow some future events. It's not as great as I hoped it would be, but I think it still has some potential and I am looking forward to the rest of the season.

    For anyone curious, here are the credits for both episodes:
     
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  15. Dudley

    Dudley Moderator
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    I thought it was pretty fun. I like the new team especially that we have female members who are more fun than Black Widow. Looking forward to Jane becoming Lady Thor.
    I gotta say, this show still isn't perfect, but I like how much it has improved


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. trance2009

    trance2009 Fun to play with not to eat

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    Finally a show with the former second tier.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I thought this was a pretty solid, fun, two-parter to start the new season with. The writers' handling of witty banter felt like it could use some work, and the animation at times felt clunkier or less refined then I would like (which is nothing new for a Marvel cartoon) but overall I found it pretty enjoyable and set the stage for the new status quo and Avengers team quite well :).

    That Stark Expo thing was kind of a really dumb idea. I mean, setting aside whether it's in-character for Tony or not, making his "grand return" open to the public and all manner of Supervillains was just really not a smart move. I mean, even in a private settingLeader would probably have still attacked to get the device, but at least no civilians would have been in the crossfire. I'm surprised The Avengers actually went through with it o_O.

    How does the general public know that Iron Man was transported to another dimension? Did it get leaked or was there an official press release that mentioned it when explaining what happened at the end of Ultron Revolution? Do people know about the whole "Civil War," Truman Marsh/Ultron thing :confused:?

    I thought Mick Wingert sounded a bit better as Tony here then he did in the Guardians crossover, though it's still kind of jarring adjusting to a new Iron Man voice and it still feels like Wingert is trying to hard to sound like RDJ as Tony. I also still honestly miss Adrian Pasdar :(.

    It was cool seeing Jane pop up, even if her design makes her look more like MCU Sharon Carter then any version of Jane Foster, and as a scientist ala the movies. It was even cooler watching her grapple onto the Leader and sock him in the gut, showcasing her valor and bravery in-spite of having no powers. It's almost kind of disappointing to think that they're going to turn her into another Superhero, because it would be nice to have an active civilian character in a Marvel cartoon who didn't need to become a Superhero to be cool ;).

    Erica Lindbeck was also a surprising and awesome choice for Jane, and she did a good job with the role here, and I'm definitely looking forward to hearing her take on Jane's Thor voice :D.

    I'm glad they didn't just ignore the relationship between Thor and Jane and established they have a close relationship and connection. And I guess the most romance we can get in a Marvel cartoon these days is two characters staring longingly into each other's eyes, because anything more would probably turn off the target audience :rolleyes2:.

    Given the Leader is The Hulk's Archenemy, and was even the main villain of SMASH, you would think that would be more relevant to his appearances in an Avengers cartoon but Hulk and Leader barely acknowledged each other here. It reminded me of how Red Skull seemed more focused on Iron Man then he was Cap in season 1 of Assemble :rolleyes:.

    So I guess the Leader's rubber robot things have enough sentience to be interrogated by Black Widow and scared into submission by the Hulk :confused:.

    It was cute seeing them try to to replicate Black Panther and Hawkeye's dynamic from EMH :anime:.

    I found the new Cabal roster to be far more interesting and cool then the season 1 incarnation of the group, even if I'm still left feeling that they seem more like the new Masters of Evil then they do a new Cabal :shrug:.

    I loved seeing Enchantress here, finally returning to animation and in an Avengers cartoon, with Skurge in tow (as always). I mean, besides giving us a cool and prominent female villain, I also appreciated seeing her get a really strong showing, with some really cool uses of her magic here :D.

    It was a little weird not seeing Enchantress in her classic look, though she pulled off the green leotard quite well ;).

    I was a tad disappointed that they didn't go more in-depth with Enchantress' feelings for Thor, but I expected that would be the case. I also was disappointed to see that they wasted an opportunity to have Kari Wahlgren reprise Amora, given she's now part of the cast as Wasp. With all due credit, though, Fryda Wolff did a solid job as Enchantress, though at times it felt like she was just doing an impression of Kari's take :ack:.

    It took three years, but I finally get to see Captain America react to Arnim Zola being alive again. I'm satisfied :proud:.

    Poor Kang. He's basically been reduced to an elite mook at this point :sad:.

    Black Panther definitely got a really strong showing in this two-parter, which was awesome. I mean, he was basically handing the Cabal their butts across the entire two-parter. It almost felt like a bit much, though T'Challa single-handedly taking out a whole Superhuman group is kind of par for the course, but I guess it's also the "Batman effect" in action. It does makes you wonder if he really needed to call in the rest of the Avengers though :rolleyes2:.

    Hey! T'Challa pulled an Iron Man 3! And random Black Panther fist bump is random. I though fist-bumping was Ant-Man and Wasp's thing :p?

    Well, Josh Keaton finally gets to be in an Avengers cartoon, though it's as a different insect-themed hero...but I still feel kinda bad for Grant George. He's been with the role across three different cartoons and two seasons of Assemble, and he's replaced because they need to make the cartoon version closer to the movies, when he could probably pull off whatever take on Ant-Man they needed :(.

    That being said, Josh Keaton does a fun Scott Lang ;).

    "It's about darn time!" Really, writers? Really? I mean, even in-context that line doesn't work as well as it did in the movie because we've barely known Hope enough to feel any kind of satisfaction at her getting invited into the Avengers, or that she felt undervalued for not getting invited into the big leagues prior to this :rolleyes:.

    I wouldn't even say it informed her character at all because I'm still not quite sure what this Wasp's characterization is supposed to be, beyond being Scott's straight-woman. She's not Janet, obviously, and I guess she's probably supposed to be the middle ground between Carol's aggressiveness and Ms. Marvel's exuberance...

    And speaking of which, can I join in the choir saying how nice it is to have an Avengers team with three women who aren't all in the Black Widow mold :anime:?

    I was definitely not expecting that twist about the Cabal. Which then leaves the question...who is the true leader of The Cabal? Doom's easy to rule out because of the embargo's, and Zemo's gone straight as far as we know. I also don't see them reusing Red Skull or Ultron. Could it end up being Loki? Or the Beyonder o_O?

    I'm guessing Cap shield and Thor's hammer were left behind because they were special metals, versus, say, Hawkeye's bow or Widow's batons...

    "All-New All Different Avengers." Y'know, a part of me wants to just roll my eyes at how on-the-nose that is, but another part of me thinks it's cool that Hope inherited her Mom's penchant for naming Avengers ;).

    Well, Avengers Compound lasted all of five minutes. I can't say I'll miss it, but it seems like an unceremonious end to what was supposed to be the new major Avengers' headquarters at the end of last season, unless they rebuild it like they rebuilt Avengers Tower all the time. That being said, it looks like the New Avengers are going to be based out of the Wakandan consulate, which would be fitting given T'Challa's new status as Avenger leader, and it even evokes Avengers Mansion, so I'm totally down with it :D.

    I wonder what was up with Mjolnir at the end there. I assumed it was just going to fly off and find Jane, but it went into space. Is it trying to find Thor, not knowing he's in another dimension? Is it flying back to Asgard? Is it heading to the moon, for Jane to pick up, like in the comics :ack:?

    I also wonder if they're going to do anything with Cap's shield beyond using it as a ceremonial piece. Will someone else try and take up the mantle while Steve is away :eek:?
     
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    #17 Frontier, Jun 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  18. Mr.O

    Mr.O Member

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    Eh. Still not my cup of tea, but I really like how they decided to up their game with the female characters. So much better than Widow. Also kind of disappointed with what they are obviously propping Jane up to be since I'm a fan of kick-butt civilians.
     
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  19. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Did anyone else think the villains were kind of overestimating how important Iron Man is to the team? I mean, I'm not saying Tony isn't important or it's not vital they get him back, but I don't think he was ever able to predict or see coming every threat or problem the team would have to face in the last three seasons. Most of his value to the team as "leader" was in his crazy plans that somehow always worked o_O.

    Heck, sometimes it felt like half the time the team was dealing with issues Tony caused in one way or another :p.

    I would've liked to have seen Ghost join the Masters...I mean, the Cabal. He would've been a fun to see as a member, and having Jim Cummings in a group alongside Mark Hamill, Steve Blum, and Travis Willingham just sounds awesome :D.

    I actually do wonder if we're going to see more members join the Cabal, or maybe someone to take over Leader's spot, outside whoever their ultimate leader is. Given how much trouble they had with the New Avengers this episode, they could probably due with some reinforcements :evil:.

    It's fun to note, given Enchantress' presence in this two-parter, that we had three former Enchantress voices in the cast. Laura Bailey played her in Avengers Academy, Grey DeLisle-Griffin played her in Super Hero Squad, and of course Kari Wahlgren played Amora in both Hulk vs. and Earth's Mightiest Heroes ;).

    It's interesting seeing the differences between this take on Black Panther and his EMH hero incarnation, especially given all the things they have in common on-top of James C. Mathis III. This version of T'Challa seems a tad more aggressive or prone to sarcasm then his more humble and affable counterpart in EMH. This take on T'Challa also likes to growl :rolleyes2:.

    It's kind of weird to think that the main team's only role in the second half of the premiere was being stuck in stasis as hostages, on-top of then being transported to another dimension. If I didn't know we'd be seeing what's going on with the original team later into the season I'd say that was a pretty unheroic way for them to go out :ack:.
     
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  20. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It was quite hilarious to see them gloating about how Iron Man would have been too smart to fall for the trap or how the team is noticeably less efficient without Iron Man when A) we've seen Iron Man regularly make stupid decisions throughout the entirety of the show and B) they've functioned just fine without him in the past.
     
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