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"Marvel's Agent Carter" Season Two Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Learned some stuff from the This Week in... podcast including:

    *In the comics, just outside Broxton, Oklahoma became the new Asgard in J. Michael Straczynski run on the Thor title in 2007

    *That necklace Peggy wears is an actual Carter family crest that the costume designer found online and bought.

    And also, Rufus names two members. One, Thomas Gloucester, who we knew only as "Tom" previously. Gloucester is a member of the Secret Empire in the comics as well.
     
    #21 Yojimbo, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016
  2. Neo Yi

    Neo Yi The Apparition
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    I really need to catch up quicker with these episodes.

    I kiiiiiinda think the flashbacks to Peggy's past were a little too on-the-nose and potentially unnecessary in that whole "Do We Really Need an Origin Story" feel. I'm also mixed on how Peggy joined S.O.E because it had to take her fiancee dying - someone whom she certainly cared for (given she was in tears when he died), but never confirmed if she truly loved him - for her to go for it. I felt it would have been better if she had accepted herself after really thinking this over; having him die takes the decision away from her and it feels cheaper as a result.

    I get both flashbacks were to draw further parallels to Peggy and Whitney's struggles as women of the early 20th century, but I don't think we needed that specific plot angle when Peggy's whole life (and indeed, the whole series so far) has been these struggles. Basically, having a flashback for Whitney only might have made more sense to me. Maybe. Something for me to chew on.
     
  3. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    It was her brother who died, not her fiancee.
     
  4. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    Which made it particularly poignant. She didn't join to get revenge on the Nazis for killing her brother. She joined because it's what she really wanted to do and Michael knew it and believed in her. His death motivated her to make her own decision with her life instead of just doing what she was supposed to do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Neo Yi

    Neo Yi The Apparition
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    Whoops, my bad. The wedding dress scene plus not remembering fiancee's name (because let's face it, the dude is a disposable character) made it harder to see otherwise. In that case, the decision holds a lot more poignancy then!
     
  6. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "The Atomic Job" February 9, 2016

    Have you been watching Agent Carter tonight?

    [​IMG]
    "The Atomic Job"
    Tuesday, February 9, 2016 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    Jarvis' quick thinking and precision is put to the test; Peggy has to stop an atomic explosion.
     
  7. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    A bit mixed on this one. Some of the humor got a bit too silly, mostly involving that scientist (his name escapes me), and the whole Ocean's Eleven angle didn't work for me.

    But that ending! Ouch, although it of course beats getting sucked up by Whitney.
     
  8. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    5. The Atomic Job

    Back when news of a second season was confirmed and it would have two more episodes, I felt a tinge of concern there might be one or two episodes that wouldn't click or feel dragged on. Unfortunately this was this episode, for me anyways. Another thing is I really envy fans who came into this show without having ever seen any of the relevant movies, one shot, comics etc. and have no clue Carter lives into the present. At least with that ignorance, the stakes are higher. But for me, her going through a rebar or Jarvis stuck in a room with two bombs did nothing for me. I already have that knowledge they will live. Plus they're the stars.

    Nice twist with the Zero Matter and its affect on both Wilkes and Frost. Though this could spell trouble for Wilkes if Frost ever gets near him. But Frost trying open another rift, bad news... I guess Heimdall is on vacation this decade? j/k. But really.

    It was nice to finally learn a little bit on how Sousa met Violet. If you ever been at the mercy of a physical therapist, you got a chuckle out of "mean." Another nice touch was Violet keeping a baseball bat at the front door - a sign of the times a changing. But man, just as things look on the up for Sousa...

    Not sure what to think of Joseph Manfredi. They at least adapted his Maggia background and violet moodswings. calvin with his mouth open in shock after he beat the goon senseless says it all really.

    As for Dr. Wilkes, I kind of hope we get to see where he goes before his inevitable return. If it's in the budget presumably.

    Favorite exchange had to been the 'kill us all' bit, Jerry, and "Everybody hates Samberly." But for me, Rose and Samberly were the highlight of the episode. Carter essentially has her crack team and Fitz-Simmons. Rose getting to fight was awesome. That device Samberly used to take the guards was really cool, imo.

    The references were pretty light but

    *Carter alludes to breaking into the Red Hook Roxxon facility with Jarvis at the beginning of season one and that didn't go too well.

    *Frost references Galileo and people thinking he was insane.

    *Carter mentions the Bombing of Pearl Harbor.

    *Sousa makes light of when Carter needed a dress when she met with Dr. Wilkes at the club.

    *Joseph Manfredi in the comics is the son of Silvermane, a major figure in the Maggia syndicate to which Whitney Frost, as Madame Masque was affiliated with. Maggia has come up in subtle easter eggs or allusions in the All Hail the King one shot and Daredevil season one.

    *Frost mentions a proposed freeway system to Manfredi. This is the Southern California Freeway system. It historically began in 1947, and to this day was never finished.
     
  9. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "Life of the Party"/"Monsters" February 16, 2016

    Two hours of Agent Carter! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on ABC.

    [​IMG]
    "Life of the Party"
    Tuesday, February 16, 2016 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    When Peggy realizes she needs help saving Wilkes, she turns to an adversary for help.

    "Monsters"
    Tuesday, February 16, 2016 @ 10 p.m. ET/9 CT on ABC
    While Peggy plans a rescue mission, Whitney searches for more dark power.
     
  10. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    So these two episodes were waaaayyy better than the previous one. Things are getting intense.

    Like with Howard Stark, almost every scene with Dottie is a scene that she steals, and she does it effortlessly. Also, any scene with her and Jarvis was comedy gold. I was also excited to see her meet Whitney; seeing Whitney break the seemingly unbreakable Dottie was a pretty good example of how frightening those powers are.

    Man, I didn't expect that to happen to Jarvis' wife; if anything, I thought they were hinting that Jarvis was the one who was going to get hurt.

    The only thing I could have done without is the Peggy/Sousa plot. I was fine with them splitting up...
     
  11. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I agree, Gold Guy, this week's two episodes were a total step up from last week! Really in the muck of things now.

    6. Life of the Party

    Too bad they didn't continue this episode right after last week's since little to no time had passed. In any case, great to finally see Wilkes' POV of what he's seeing when he vanishes. Trippy. Nice touch to have Wilkes' liken the Zero Matter to a 'dark force.' While Carter said 'there's only one place left in the world to find it' -- I wondered why they didn't just go to Coroner Meltzer or Detective Henry's remains, unless they were destroyed/locked up at Gloucester's cold storage, too...

    Carter is so awesome. Still walking the day after a rebar went through her abdomen. And her 'no rest of the weary and wounded' line. Yes!

    Just as equally, they are putting Sousa through the wringer in different ways. His analysis of Carter's plan though brought up an interesting point -- there really isn't anyone other agent that was competent enough? Really? That's kind of bad... though I can see that this gap in the skill pool is what basically leads to the formation of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy I suppose. But back to Sousa, I thought there was the chance the love triangle would silently go away but nice to be wrong and it's still in the forefront.

    So glad to see Dottie back and they pretty much explained she's been basically disavowed by Leviathan and the Red Room. Dottie mocking the Arena Club pin was hilarious and so meta. But I wish they did freakin' explain the reason for the heist. Something tells me that's going to be the end credits teaser for this season. No gun on the guard and the net were awesome! Though it seemed convienient that she was holed up in a secret prison in LA... the hair dryer was hilarious. Nice touch to put her in a dress that shares the colors of the Black Widow. Her taking his watch and Jarvis' cane sword scene. The best. Another nice touch was her comment on the party, "The decadence in this place is truly repulsive" -- a reminder of her origins in Communist Russia.

    Also great to see Ana back finally and she had some entertaining scenes with Wilkes. I like there's more to her as well and she's not just some hip housewife or whatever other ways it could have gone horribly wrong for her development. But in the same vein, it's glad they didn't totally break from the stereotypes and reinforce she does truly love Jarvis and worries about him on these missions.

    Jack Thompson continues to be a piece of garbage. Frost flirting with him. Egh. Creepy. He's so going to be a problem heading into the season finale. Especially with how Vernon or he's going to discredit her.

    Figures the Council would get decimated by Frost eventually. Like in season one, how it went from Leviathan being the threat to it being Fenhoff. Pretty much here but now Frost is using both the Council and Maggia to her needs. Though it was good to see Calvin get killed off. She simply didn't need him anymore, like she was throwing away another mask she didn't need anymore. But one thing did bother me, the Council was involved in events dating back to as early as 1901 and the nine members were all mostly really old men with the exception of Chadwick. Regardless of Frost, if they all croaked at the same time, I wonder what kind of mechanism was in place to ensure their plans and influence continued? But we'll never know I guess.

    7. Monsters

    Nice touch that Frost addressed the journalists in front of Anvil Studios. Sousa mentioned a few episodes ago of her affiliation with Anvil Studios as its top earner by 1938. Carter's spit line, heh. But that was brutal seeing her torture Dottie. Great FX work and acting. To see even Dottie scared, hmm.

    Dottie and Vernon. Such good writing there. Again, it was great to learn a little bit more about Leviathan abandoning Dottie to save face with Stalin. Vernon turning away when Frost shows her face of when she gestured towards him were nice touches. And in contrast, Joseph doesn't flinch at all -- implying he always knew she was a monster on the inside and it's now just come to the surface.

    Wilkes got a bit dark there with suggesting the lethal soultion to their problem with Dottie but I'm glad someone said it. It was the white elephant in the room. Plus it adds to the layers of Carter's moral compass in that she won't do it and would rather risk her own life to mount a rescue mission.

    Jarvis' opinion of Hungarian food and Sousa's Mother code, lmao. Carter and Jarvis actually commenting on the love triangle - wow - that was an unexpected diversion before the last half of the episode. Then we get the 'delayed detonation' innuendo. Oh, Howard. You dog.

    I love seeing more and more of Howard's tech and ideas -- as it relates to what belies his puckish exterior. The Jitterbug was perhaps a nod/precursor to Iron Man's palm blasts. And well, Frost deducing the schematics of a palladium core? Howard was thinking about it as early as 1947 -- and probably limited by the technology of the time, as he was in the--what was it 70s when Tony watched the film reel in Iron Man 2.

    It also a nice surprise to see Dottie be the voice of reason when she told Peggy to stop being an idealist. If what she alluded to about the SSR being rotten due to the Council's influence, that's -- kind of a bummer considering the whole HYDRA hiding in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s shadow fiasco. Go from one to the other.

    An excellent twist that Wilkes drained Frost of some of her Zero Matter and is no longer intangible. And she was all Darth Vader - join the dark side, er, force and we can rule the Empire together' - and he was all Luke Skywalker and 'no way, it's a force of destruction!' Then he's comically knocked out from behind. Head slam.

    Shooting Ana. Terrible. You really going to do that to one of the brand new characters from this season? Yeah, we know Carter and Jarvis survive beyond this series and that removes the level of danger for their lives -- but it seems like a damn waste to do that to Ana. Unless, it's done right and that's what convinces Jarvis to end his life of adventure or whatever else. He'll go dark and want revenge on Frost. But combined with everything else - Wilkes kidnapped, Sousa beaten up, Vernon taking SSR LA, Thompson, Dottie on the loose - this is rock bottom. It should be all the more satisfying when they triumph...

    Vernon taking over SSR LA was a "Oh, brother" moment. I suppose that's the weakness in the SSR's structure. Nothing between the Chief position and whoever handles oversight in the War Department (in this case Vernon). I suppose that lends itself to the development of the mostly independent structure of S.H.I.E.L.D. with Director, Deputy Commander, Secretaries, etc and the levels of clearance. I guess Colonel Phillips is retired or reassigned somewhere else after World War II then whenever S.H.I.E.L.D. is formed, he co-runs it with Stark and Carter for a bit. Though I assume behind the scenes, trying to get Tommy Lee Jones to appear on the show would be easier said than done.

    EDIT: And Ilse Koch is an actual historical figure. Based on Vernon's anecdote, he was probably alluding to her second arrest on June 30, 1945 since that was when U.S. forces nabbed her.
     
    #31 Yojimbo, Feb 17, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  12. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    Props to the writing team for giving us a strong woman lead character and not being afraid to add more strong women to the cast capable of stealing scenes. We knew we could count on Dottie and Frost is the main villain, but Ana, Rose, and Violet have been excellent as well.

    Agree that the skills problem is likely what leads to the formation of SHIELD. I thought Dottie specifically referenced HYDRA infiltrating SSR. Season 3 looks unlikely. I was really hoping to see the formation of SHIELD. Perhaps the new ABC president can save it, or maybe we can get a Netflix season, or perhaps a few flashbacks in Season 4 of AOS.
     
  13. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I guess she was referencing HYDRA. Yeah. Beforehand I was thinking they infiltrated S.H.I.E.L.D. not the SSR. HYDRA could have been already infiltrating the SSR during World War II. They got that one guy in the State Department in Cap 1. Then naturally Paperclip brought a lot of its scientists over including Zola.

    With the speed they're going on Carter, it seems unlikely they would ever get to S.H.I.E.L.D.'s origin story. Just take more or less the aspects of the one-shot as part of the origin story.

    Plus, it already been sorta laid out it doesn't get founded until the mid-50s to late-60s.
    *In Captain America: The Winter Soldier - Peggy's interview was set in 1954 and she was still a SSR agent
    *In Captain America: The Winter Soldier - Natasha said the Winter Soldier was active for the past 50 years so he was presumably first reanimated in the early 60s
    *In Iron Man 2: Public Identity and Iron Man 2 - Vanko was taken away by men in black from Stark Industries but they were never revealed to specifically be S.H.I.E.L.D. agents in late June 1967.
    *In Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season one - Simmons mentioned the boiler room at S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy was modified in the late 60s.. implying S.H.I.E.L.D. is in existence of course.
     
  14. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "The Edge of Mystery"/"A Little Song and Dance" February 23, 2016

    We've got two more hours of Agent Carter in advance of the season finale next week! Right now on ABC.

    [​IMG]
    "The Edge of Mystery"/"A Little Song and Dance"
    Tuesday, February 23, 2016 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    Sousa and Peggy try to make a deal with Whitney Frost; Howard Stark helps the SSR.
     
  15. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    Pretty good episodes. Jarvis, usually the comic relief of the show, gets to show a lot more emotional range (he never struck me as the kind of guy who'd be out for blood, but here we are). That said, possibly my favorite scene in these two episodes is when Peggy totally unloads on him.

    I do pity Jarvis considering the circumstances, but Peggy was totally right; he was being kinda whiny, and before that hadn't been treating any of the missions with the appropriate gravitas. And again, while I feel horrible that they won't be able to have kids....his wife is still alive, and that's the important thing. More than you could say for other characters.. I also love how Peggy didn't need to raise her voice or anything to ger her message across.

    I still hate Thompson's guts...but he is actually pretty smart at times. Able to out think two villains at the same time, and his bomb plan was actually really good, if not for his willingness to murder a (kinda) bystander.

    Very mixed feelings about Wilkes betraying the heroes. It's not a "bad" twist, but it's also kind of a cop-out, because it makes Peggy's choice easier.

    Oh, the musical sequence was kind of random, but it was entertaining for what it was. Oh, and Manfredi is the new surprise standout character. His dialogue and delivery is so fun.
     
  16. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    What...a...wild...night that was.

    8. THE EDGE OF MYSTERY

    Nice way to bookend Ana's foreboding line by adding in a scene to last season. I'm not sure I like the consequence that she and Jarvis have to suffer for the rest of their lives. Though, I imagine they were probably close to Peggy's family in the future and likely raised Tony. On the ending, I get Jarvis' motivations. But still, a too stupid to live choice. No way a bullet would have killed her.

    Very amusing how Frost could have a straight face talking about "the voice" in her and Wilkes' head. Who this "voice" could belong to...the surprise big bad in the finale? I'm still chalking it up to going nuts from exposure to the Zero Matter.

    I'm still not really into Joseph Manfredi. Feels like they're making fun of every Italian stereotype they can think of. Now the typical Italian grandma with a hot temper. Though for comical effect, it serves its purpose. The one thing I liked is how Joe still loves Frost and sees her for who she was all along. Vernon's reaction to Joe's fire line in the desert was gold.

    Felt pretty odd and sudden to learn a little of Thompson's back story in the London segment. But it makes sense he went to Cornell. An Ivy League school. At last, he listened to the voice of reason... Carter.

    Samberly continues to be a hoot. Getting on Sousa's nerves and trying to act cool around Rose. Rose's "You'll be fine" was the best. Heh. Sucked they didn't use Rose in the mission.

    Nice to see Wilkes finally use his condition as a superpower - phasing through the truck. My heart sank when he held the gun to Carter's head. The bit later between Carter and Sousa talking about being dispassionate in the field was an excellent touch.

    Glad to see Howard's expedition to find his old professor finally bore fruit. And to boot, gamma radiation. Nice. Naturally when Wilkes said "Do you have any idea how dangerous those are?" -- "YES!" must have been shouted from many households.

    The rift and gamma cannon SFX was handled pretty well.

    References, easter eggs, etc.

    *Benny Goodman is a famous swing musician

    *Groucho Marx is a famous comedian from the modern era

    *Thompson refers to Carter, Sousa, and Jarvis as the Three Stooges.

    *Thompson mentions a June 1944 incident from the faked redacted Carter file. In reality, all we know about this time frame is it's the tail end of when Captain America and the Howlin' Commandos raided the HYDRA factories.

    *Gamma radiation -- well y'know, Hulk.

    9. A LITTLE SONG AND DANCE

    The opening bit was entertaining. Loved the touches about them addressing the black and white. Nice to see Angie and hear some of her recurring lines. Still a bummer she wasn't used this season. Dottie cameo was also cool yet creepy. Hmm, wonder if she's in the finale and/or the end credits teaser. Did not see Rose slugging Carter coming. OMG.

    Rather amusing that Wilkes went with the flow when he could have probably killed everyone with the Zero Matter -- but granted he was trying to hold it back most of the episode. Except at the end. I bet he's only destroying the cannon and it was a fake out.

    You think in the penultimate episode, it would be less talking and more hitting. But the discussion between Carter and Jarvis in the desert happened. Great to see some things addressed that were always on the surface of the show.

    Nice call back with Sousa asking why he had to take the punch. Earlier this season, he took a hit from Rufus when he and Carter pretended to let him escape from Stark Mansion.

    The hotwire was a pretty cool spy gadget. They needed more of those this season. Ah well. Waste-management facility joke. Gold. As was Sousa vowing to kill Samberly some day, then he retorts with "Get in line!" lol.

    Speaking of more hitting, so freakin' awesome to see Carter punch the daylights out of Vernon finally. I was suprised he managed to survive a sure death at the end of the episode.

    Figures although Thompson sides with Carter and co., he's still a d-bag and you still question what the heck is going on in his head. But still, he's serves a role as the extreme voice in Sousa and Carter's ongoing argument about what choice to make.

    References, easter eggs, etc.

    *Andy Hardy is a famous character played by Mickey Rooney in the MGM film series.

    *Pacific Coast Highway
     
  17. Neo Yi

    Neo Yi The Apparition
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    Oy, I fell behind, but finally caught up. Oh man, I was jazzed by the song and dance number in the ninth episode. Angie, it's so nice to see you again!

    So far, Jarvis is the biggest highlight. It's jarring to see him stressing out and boiling in anger after episodes of him being the comic relief, but I like this development. For all of Jarvis' desire for adventure, there will be consequences to the way he thinks; that people he loves can get hurt. I don't doubt Jarvis will be back to help Peggy, but perhaps this time, he'll see it with completely different sets of eyes. I'm keeping an optimistic heart though. Even if he and Ana can't have kids, I feel like the two are jubilant enough that they will keep moving forward.

    I'm equally fascinated with Jack Thompson. Like I previously stated, he's the kind of person who had the necessary character development in season one, yet it doesn't mean he's 100% automatically a changed man. There's something realistic about the idea that while he keeps Peggy as a fellow field agent, he's still a stubborn jerk who often goes by his own flow. The show definitely calls him out on it, but they also constantly remind us that in the long run, the dude's on Team Peggy. ...For the most part. I think it adds a very neat, complexity to his character and the show as a whole.

    I'm half a mind with Wilkes right now because I'm a bit scared on his general direction. His motives are desperate and sympathetic, that I can take. Peggy reaffirming him as a good man (and him showing it) is equally good, but I hope he won't die. I wanna see him live! See him do some real good with his powers.

    Also digging the idea of Dottie being something of a possible dark counterpart to Peggy. At least, I love the way Dottie admires/is jealous of Peggy's life.

    If we never get a season three, I'm hoping for a bang of a season ender next Tuesday. Pun so intended.
     
  18. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "Hollywood Ending" Season Finale March 1, 2016

    Season finale! Tonight at 9 p.m. ET on ABC.

    [​IMG]
    "Hollywood Ending" - Season Finale
    Tuesday, March 1, 2016 @ 9 p.m. ET/8 CT on ABC
    As Peggy faces a mission she cannot come back from, she needs Stark to eradicate Zero Matter.
     
  19. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Watch out, at least on the west coast, there is preemption for Super Tuesday coverage so check with your stations. I've heard for some, it's just Carter is on one hour later.

    EDIT: More later, but didn't care for the ending or the teaser. Seemed kind of flat to me. Sousa sort of belittled Carter there in the office...

    Sounds like Dr. Wilkes is going to be part of the Arc Reactor project.

    I bet the shooter and the redacted file is about Michael Carter, not Margaret Carter, and he was not dead all this time. Faked his death for the S.O.E. and that whole thing will probably be the big arc of season 3 if it's greenlit.
     
  20. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    Mixed feelings on this episode, especially the cliffhanger. If we don't get a third season, it'll be really annoying.

    The actual climax felt a bit anti-climatic, but I did enjoy most of the character interaction here. Also, Howard Stark, yay.

    Well, looks like Whitney's mind has been shot. I don't think we'll see her in season 3, but maybe Manfredi will blame Carter and friends for what happened.
     

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