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Marvel Universe and Ultimate Marvel to fuse after Secret Wars

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics and Collectibles' started by ShadowGUN, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. ShadowGUN

    ShadowGUN YES!YES!YES!

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    The MARVEL UNIVERSE Is Ending | Newsarama.com

    So from what I understand it regular Marvel and Ultimate Marvel will become one new Universe and take place on Battleworld. So basically they are ripping off DC Comics Crisis of infinite Earths.:sad:
     
    #1 ShadowGUN, Jan 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2015
  2. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    I'm just hoping they aren't stupid enough to throw Miles Morales into the scrap heap and that the Ultimate Universe actually stays gone this time. Its purpose is irrelevant.
     
  3. ShadowGUN

    ShadowGUN YES!YES!YES!

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    From the sound of it, Miles Morales will stick around. He is after all Bendis's baby.
     
  4. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    My theory is the new series will establish Miles was Spiderman after the original was believed to have been killed but Peter actually briefly retired after May Parker was born.

    The new series could start with Miles and his dad in a new town.
     
  5. Stu

    Stu Marvel Animation Age Webmaster
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    A supposedly universe changing story and they are letting Jonathan Hickman write it? Oh dear.
     
  6. CyclonatorZ

    CyclonatorZ Active Member

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    *looks up battleworld* ... okay, so a planet made up of lots of different pieces of other planets? How exactly can they do the same thing with entire universes? Are they literally going to chop the 616 and Ultimate Earths in half and glue them together? Does that mean there will be two earths in the new combined universe, or is half of each earth being tossed in the cosmic dustbin? And what about all the other zillions of planets that have been featured, especially in the cosmic comics? My head is hurting.... :sweat:
     
  7. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I agree the Ultimate Universe is irrelevant and not very popular right now, which is evident in how they can't hold a series that's not a Miles Morales book, I'd kinda feel bad for those living in it if they all get killed off just so Miles can get pulled into 616...even if he's the only Ultimate Universe character who's still popular. And hey, classic Mysterio is still there! I hope someone gets him out :sweat:.

    So from what I've been reading, on other message boards and from what Marvel is saying, Secret War will merge all these AU's together with the main 616 Universe and by the end of it elements/characters from those universes will be brought over to the main Marvel Universe that results from the end of the event.

    That way you might see super-popular characters like Spider-Woman Gwen Stacy or Miles getting pulled into the main universe, or whatever else Marvel wants to incorporate into their new continuity. Heck, considering all the radical changes, deaths, and character assassinations that has happened to major Marvel characters, this offers the chance to fix that without negating that those things happened. Or something like that...

    Essentially this is kind of a reboot except not a hard reboot but with some elements of a reboot...and the MU probably looking even more like the MCU once everything is said and done :p.
     
  8. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    I find this is a blatant rip of DC's COIE story and, depending on how it turns out, could be my exit from Marvel. We all knew this was coming but I'm actually surprised at how uninterested I am in this. At least this probably answers how Marvel will undo things like Sam Wilson as Captain American and the female Thor, which is a shame since both of those are actually pretty interesting stories. I find this quasi-reboot unnecessary since Marvel's sliding timeline actually made their continuity pretty easy to follow. I also find it funny Marvel announced this on the same day DC releases their solicits since this news basically buried that. Good thing DC teased out their April books before Marvel had a chance to step all over it.
     
  9. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    If this is indeed a universe reboot, no matter what happens (regarding the outcome or actual content in this event), one thing is certain: every character/series/franchise/etc will relaunch (again) in a new volume with a new special issue number one. For the nine millionth time.

    It might be way too early to think ahead, but I'm pondering where I will go from this event's conclusion. The current ongoing Marvel titles I get are Amazing Spider-Man, All New X-Men, Fantastic Four, and The Punisher. No matter what situation or creative team, I will be continuing with The Punisher. Given the success/acclaim of Dan Slott's Amazing/Superior Spider-Man, I assume Marvel will continue having him as the writer regardless of the new situation. So I'll be most likely continuing with that. Now on to the X-Men. I think the X-Men can benefit most from a potential Marvel Universe reboot. For years I've had a hard time getting into current/recent X-Men because I've felt there's too many characters, too many X-Men teams all at the same time, and rotating members in said assorted X-Men teams. I'm hoping these teams/characters will be thinned out, and there will be ONE MAIN X-Men team that stays consistent regarding it's roster. All New X-Men has met my criteria for what I've been looking for in an X-Men comic since issue 1. Hmmmm. MAYBE the original/silver age team in All New X-Men remember Secret Wars (2015) after they return to their time, where because they remember everything they saw in their future (our present), they take steps to prevent the future bad events, which essentially reboots the universe. I consider that a more simpler explanation to a universal reboot, so because of the simplicity of that, I some how doubt that's how it's going to go down. I don't have much to say on Fantastic Four because I'm waiting to see if it's "canceled" because of that movie.

    I haven't gotten much out of this announcement though, let me see the solicitations (and the 9 million tie in issues) for Secret Wars and I'll go from there.
     
  10. ShadowGUN

    ShadowGUN YES!YES!YES!

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  11. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Marble never learns.
     
  12. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    Besides the fact that event comics sell really well and number ones always attract new kinds of readers, the only reason I can see Marvel doing this is because they're hoping with how popular the Movies are, that if they reboot the continuity and start it more off from scratch they can attract new readers besides just tweaking the characters in the books to be more like the ones in film. You know erase the continuity that I'm sure some would find hard to wrap around. Because otherwise this has no point. At least when DC did it they were admittedly in more of a slump but I've checked around and all of the Marvel titles have not only been selling pretty well but have been outpacing the compettition lately. So there's no need to do this as a way of compettiting with DC as even in comics Marvel is winning. What is this just to further ensure it or something? *Sighs* See this is the kind of crud that makes me not want to get into super hero comics. I know Marvel hasn't really done a reboot like DC has but with all the continuity shifting and switching and relaunching books it's hard to keep track of anything. And honestly it shows how short sighted these companies are as most of their plans see to be either short term gimmicks or just keep rebooting and relaunching whenever they want to sell more, and honestly who wants to keep getting involved with that? Not me, that's for sure.
     
  13. Paul_Cousins

    Paul_Cousins Active Member

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    Worse. They are ripping off the worst idea DC ever did. Flashpoint and New 52. Instead of just staring fresh, with a whole new universe, with the original Marvel universe and Ultimate Marvel universe left in place. Those are Marvel are going to trash both those universes, then put them in a blender, that will leave a confused, disjointed continuity just like New 52. This is the very reason I gave up on DC comics.

    And here is the rub. Those are Marvel probably think they live in a bubble. And they blame lower comic sales for doing this. The problem is, that it isn't the sales that are the problem. It is the fact that real world economic problems are effecting everyone.

    Just like New 52, this is a good case of burning long time customers, for possible short term gains.

    Still, as we seen with the whole mosaic of DC multiverse history. Even if Marvel tries to destroy these realities, they will still exist. The whole Marvel What If comic line is built on such alternate realities, where Marvel Universe and Ultimate Marvel universe will survive.
     
  14. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it.----George Santayana.

    DC/WB and Marvel/Disney are engaged in a never-ending battle of corporate chicken, copying each other's "events", when they should start considering the prospect of going back to done-in-one stories as a means of bringing in new readers without alienating older ones. This is a big reason why I am seriously considering stepping away again, and soon. They'll never understand.
     
  15. Paul_Cousins

    Paul_Cousins Active Member

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    That sums it up. Though, there is more. And it is worse than you think.

    But, it is also the way Marvel is doing this. It is has come out that how Marvel plans to end all these these character developments, all these plot lines, is to drop the bridge on the them (TV Trope), with showing how they plan to spend the last day of their lives.

    Plenty of science fiction stories have done that narrative. At best such stories are sad, at worst they are heartbreaking.

    This is basically going to be a collection of snuff-fics.

    This is Ultraverse Black September all over again. (If you don't know what I am talking about)

    Also, I heard rumors, just rumors right now, that, barring integrating a few characters, where Marvel plans to return to the early nineteen nineties.

    For those readers whom were not around that time, Marvel fans that know that read story lines from that was considered the "dark age" of comics. And the readers considered is the low point of Marvel comics. Because there are no real character development. All were there was only violence and ultra-violence. With formulaic, shallow plots, that never went anywhere.

    Though, editors loved that for the same reasons. Because it made their jobs easier.

    Now, for Marvel, the only two good things to came out of the early nineteen nineties were Deadpool and Squirrel Girl.

    Marvel's track record of character integrations, and reboots, are not good. Marvel fumbled Angela. I am not sure if she is suppose to be rival, or an enemy, to Thor Odinson, and his family.

    And the last major reboot was One More Day for Spidermen. I am not going to get into that. If you don't know what I am talking about. Then, you have been living under a rock.

    Now, Marvel can do multi-year storylines very, very well. Such as the Annilation Wave, to Realm of Kings, to War of Kings, Thantos Imperative. If you haven't read those storylines, track them down. They are a long read, but very good science fiction. Well plotted out, with good plot twists and character development. I consider them, taken as a whole, to be one of the best storylines of science fiction in the last decade. Up there with Babylon Five.

    Now, while I loath DC New 52, I do respect the writers and artists. When that order came down, the writers and artists were given only a few months to rap things up. And they tried their best. And a they some of them even tried to show up what they would have done, if given the time, such as the Batgirl, Stephanie Brown. Also, some of the ideas at the time, that were not allowed to take offer, were brilliant, such as a crippled Barbara Gordon, with Birds of Prey, versus the twisted woman known as Junior. Junior was a twisted, sadistic genius, whom was one of the fear people that the Joker was scared of. But, she was also hard to track because she did not use electronics, save for a phoneline. She used mainly a notepad to keep her thoughts straight. Junior was a perfect arch-villain for Barbara, because her computer skills were worthless against Junior, and it would have come down to a game of wits.

    Back to Marvel, what worries me most of what Marvel is going to do is that the editors have turned bloodthirsty.

    Go take a look at the spider-verse storyline to see what I mean. One of the editors was quoted as to saying to the effect, that he is only doing this to see how far he can go, in killing superheroes. And this whole destruction of two whole Marvel franchises is just an extension of that bloodthirst.

    If that is the case, I am just going to walk away from Marvel comics, because the future storylines will be even worse, more violent, dark, and formulaic, than ever before. If that happens, most readers will walk away.

    For readers this reboot might be. "Here we are ditching all the character development, and most of new character in the last twenty years. And instead of going with character development. We are going with formulaic plots. Though, we are keep the same high price for comic issues. Or, maybe we will raise them a little bit more in price."

    Given the state of the economy, in the real world, these sorts of business decisions will lead to ruin.

    And these reboots, including the movie reboots. I am looking at you, Spiderman movie franchise, and Batman movie franchise. Are like an organ grinder playing the same few tunes. Over and over again. The organ grinder does this because he feels these tunes are safe bet to get money. When instead, everyone else, and even the dancing monkey is getting tired of it, and walking away.

    That is what it feels like with DC and Marvel. Everyone is walking away from them, like they would walk away from the organ grinder.

    Personally, I have been reading IDW comics. I find most of the ones I read to be good. And I think that their Transformer comic lines are absolutely groundbreaking for that franchise. If you have checked out IDW Transformer comic lines, you need too.
     
    #15 Paul_Cousins, Jan 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2015
  16. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    I don't get what the big deal is Marvel is in a far better creative position then DC was when they rebooted three years ago.

    Plus they've been building up to a reboot for years now I'm sure they'll be going into this with a good plan.
     
  17. Paul_Cousins

    Paul_Cousins Active Member

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    That is the problem. That is not a good plan.

    If Marvel wanted to do this right, they should just admit they want to start over. They should tie up the loose ends of the storylines, and then move to a completely different comicline, with no direct connections to either Original Marvel Comic, nor Ultimate Marvel. Without destroying those two franchises. And instead they should just end and shelf those franchises.

    There is a difference between ending a franchise and destroying.

    For example, the Star Trek franchise has been ended, and shelved, a number of times. Only to be brought back, in a different forms, a few years later. And that has been a successful, and profitable model for Star Trek. It keeps the franchise from becoming stale, while maintaining steady profits over the long term.

    While Marvel is doing here, and DC did with New 52 is destroying franchises, and burning bridges.

    Like the old car dealer business model. You are not selling the car, you are selling the next three cars. In the comic industry, you are not selling comics. You are selling subscriptions. With you wanting customers to come back, month, after month, to buy more comic issues.

    DC and Marvel have clearly forgotten this lesson, and this is going to come back to haunt them later.
     
  18. Rabbitearsblog

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    I do wonder why Marvel is even thinking about combining the Ultimate Universe with the 616 universe. To me, it would just make things even more confusing, especially if you have been reading the 616 universe for years, but you haven’t read the Ultimate Universe and you’re wondering who these new characters are and why they are in the 616 universe. Also, I do wonder how long this new change in the universe will last since I can see the stories getting more confusing if there are too many crossovers that don’t do anything to the plots and are just there to create a new event or using the shock factor to wow the readers. I hope we at least get more consistency in the stories out of this instead of making things even more confusing for the readers.
     
  19. Paul_Cousins

    Paul_Cousins Active Member

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    Like DC New 52. No one knew what was canon and what was not. Not even the writers at DC.

    I honestly think this is the case the the editors want to ditch all the complexity of plots and character development. So, the editors can go back to formulaic plots that have no character development, nor plot advancement. Which the editors can ignore their previous stories, and just move on to the next formulaic story. The editors love this type of story creation, because it makes their jobs easier. With formulaic stories, editors don't have to go back and do research on previous stories. And readers hate for the shallow stories that formulaic plots create.

    Also, the editors are doing this in the worst way possible. By trashing all the characters behind them. Their "last day on Earth" concept, turns my stomach. I loath these types of stories. Especially when they are done for shortsighted reasons, that harm everyone involved, in the long term. And the editors are no only going to kill off and erase the characters, but the editors are going to drag out the deaths so the characters, and the long time readers that have come to enjoy reading about these characters, suffer.
     
  20. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I think for DC the thing is that, aside from Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman, most of the important and major parts of their main characters' history was meant to have happened in the very small timespan of 5 years (after the Justice League had formed).

    So you had Batman go through all the Robins, get his back broken, conceive Damian, die, form a Bat-Family, and pretty much encounter his entire Rogues Gallery in that timespan.

    Green Lantern is the same way, with all his history and the entire Johns' run being relatively intact and carrying on exactly as it was before Flashpoint.

    As for Superman...apparently some of the major cornerstones of his history happened in his new status quo, but I think it's pretty vague.

    Sometimes I genuinely prefer DC to Marvel, and I still enjoy most of the DC books that I'm reading right now. But the New 52 definitely did not streamline continuity :sweat:.
     

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