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"Man of Steel" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jun 14, 2013.

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"Man of Steel" - Discuss and Rate this Movie

  1. *****

    14.7%
  2. ****1/2

    11.8%
  3. ****

    32.4%
  4. ***1/2

    8.8%
  5. ***

    17.6%
  6. **1/2

    11.8%
  7. **

    2.9%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. *

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    Man of Steel arrives on home video today! Click here to discuss the Blu-ray/DVD/Digital release, but stay here to discuss the controversial movie itself!

    [​IMG]
    Man of Steel
    Release Date: June 14, 2013
    Studio: Warner Bros. Pictures
    Director: Zack Snyder
    Screenwriter: David S. Goyer
    Starring: Henry Cavill, Amy Adams, Michael Shannon, Kevin Costner, Diane Lane, Laurence Fishburne, and Russell Crowe

    Plot Summary: A young boy learns that he has extraordinary powers and is not of this Earth. As a young man, he journeys to discover where he came from and what he was sent here to do. But the hero in him must emerge if he is to save the world from annihilation and become the symbol of hope for all mankind.

    Comments?

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  2. brickrrb2

    brickrrb2 Active Member

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    From what I read here....EVERYONE one this forum could have made a better Superman movie
     
  3. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

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    Richard Donner did his movie and it was spectacular but it was time to move on, BT is a great animator and writer but I am unsure if he could do live action... same with Dini... And as for Joss wheden... Please... If we were to compare whedens superhero movie (Avengers ) it is almost a joke compared to MOS... Avengers was really fun but was too cheesy and Disney-fied. If they did that to superman that would suck. I am not a fan of Wheden except "Serenity." I don't really like his writing or style. He has enormous talent but I don't think he could have tackled Superman at all.
    Again Avengers was fun, but it was no TDK or MOS or iron man.

    I couldn't make one... as this was a great film... Sure it had some minor flaws, but it was still 99.7% amazing. People said they wanted major action, grit, angst, and a huge backstory... I guess not. What's funny is outside this forum, I have spoken to many, many people... only 2 thought it was "pretty good." or "really cool." no one I have met has said it sucked.
     
  4. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    To throw my hat into the "killing Zod" discussion; personally their idea of it being the moment when Clark decides all life is sacred and that he shouldn't ever take another life is a good situation. But they lacked both the context and the payoff to that idea. There was no "I should've found a better way, I must never take another life." moment at the end. There was no real payoff to how Snyder justified that moment in the film.

    The bigger problem I have is that Clark was more outraged at killing Zod than the collateral damage his fights were doing. How many civilians were dead because of what was happening around him? That just makes the entire thing a little hollow to me. Make the threat not just a couple of people but the entire city once Clark realises how much destruction their fight is causing.

    I would've also added in scenes at the end of Superman fixing up Metropolis, rescuing people from destroyed buildings, that sort of thing. But I always think having superheroes saving people is more important than big fight scenes, so I'm a little biased on that.
     
  5. SB20xx

    SB20xx Oooooh!
    Staff Member Moderator Reporter

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    ^ Great post, W.C. Reaf. I agree with what you said.
    A RL friend of mine gave it 2 1/4 stars out of 4 on his blog, and wasn't that impressed with it. Just sayin'.
     
  6. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    Bro please don't put MoS in the same sentence as Iron man and TDK. Those two movies were game changers. They belong in the pantheon of great movies. MoS was just your run of the mill summer tentpole that nobody cared about after its first two weeks. And seriously people in this forum are saints compared to what the outside internet thinks of MoS. Seriously just google it and watch the hate flow from your computer screen.
     
  7. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    One thing about Superman's qq more moment: crying after killing someone does not traditionally mean, in fiction, that you've now realized that killing is wrong and will never kill again. Just means that doing what you had to upset you. Fafhrd from Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser sometimes cries after he kills someone. Doesn't mean he ain't gonna kill someone else, guy's a sword and sorcery hero, he'll probably kill again before the end of the evening. And as I posted earlier it hurts Pootie Tang to kill a man.

    No one said that. No one wants grit and angst from Superman. Maybe you, Snyder, John Peters, and Goyer, but no one else. And no one wanted to retread origin and backstory for the millionth time, either.
     
  8. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    The Honest Trailer for Man of Steel went up today and it's pretty funny and does a good job at getting some pretty accurate jabs in.

    [video=youtube;Sge5sUNJkiY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sge5sUNJkiY[/video]

    Honest Trailers - Man of Steel - YouTube

    While this movie had some problems I still got some enjoyment out of it. I haven't watched it in some time so I wonder how it will hold up on Blu-ray.
     
  9. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

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    I am a little behind on easter eggs, but what was with the one open stasis pod in the old Kryptonian ship? I appreciated the nods to Wayne Enterprises and LexCorp. Anyone know if there were more references?

    I was wondering where the montage of Superman helping with relief efforts in Smallville and Metropolis as well. Instead, a jab at drones and a captain getting hot under the collar. I wasn't really into the death of Pa Kent either, I can understand where they were coming from story-wise but it felt forced to me... maybe at the time I was feeling loopy from the multiple flashbacks weaved in and out of the movie.

    EDIT: lol, honest trailer indeed.
     
  10. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

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    In your opinion MOS is a tentpole that nobody cared about... MOS in my opinion was great and people loved and still love it. It upped everything on many levels too, it had a great back story, amazing visuals (that I don't think I have ever seen in a Superhero film,) awesome locations (krypton was cool,) emotion, and action that made sense (if two God's fought... that is exactly what would happen.) As for the action there is no other movie I can think of that did so much but also did it so well. Now I love TDK and Iron Man... but MOS is just as good as TDK and even better than Iron Man IMO... but again these are just my opinions. Also mostly what I see on the net generally are "Superman Returns sucked, there was not enough action." and "Superman was boring" So then they give everyone a movie that essentially everyone asked for... and they hate it?... WTHeck?!?... So superman should just simply rescue kittens from trees and turn back time if something bad happens? That would be such a fun movie!!! lol ;)

    Crying and screaming out in agony usually means someone is upset, and seeing as how he screamed right after killing Zod seems to be a great indicator of him feeling horrible about doing that. He begged Zod "Don't do this" a couple times then realized I am going to have to kill him, there is no ther way, so he does and then is devastated about it. So you think that they should have spent another 30 mins. maybe having Superman cry and actually say he hated killing Zod just so "you would know" or maybe him seeing a psychologist would be good too, lol ;)... also I'm not the one who wanted any angst, (but after thinking about it... anyone (even Superman) would feel those emotions considering his situation. I only mentioned it because in the past others have. Also on the big screen this is only the second time his origin was told... unless your counting TV... plus this movie wasn't just for fans, it was to introduce Superman to new audiences. Also one more thing about Superman killed Zod... The director has said that the repercussions of that will most likely be addressed more and spill into the sequel...


    I just wonder if people on here who are Superman fans just want him to be owned by Disney and become the next Disney Prince or have a comedic movie made by Pixar... and then they will be happy. lol
    I bet that if Superman was made more similar to TDK we would have gotten what we did in MOS... if Superman was done in Avengers style it would be riddled with more plot holes than one could ever count, the effects would be cheesy, and the villains would be defeated easily if Superman simply destroyed the main bad ship/guy. ;)


    D.


    EDIT: lol... man I am so annoying aren't I, why do I argue/debate about a stinking movie and it's merits... when at the end of the day it really doesn't matter? You either like something or you don't. I tried to use emoticons to indicate my jesting or joking about comments, but I apologize if they came off as anything else. Goodnight Toonzoners! ;) :)
     
    #190 Dusty, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013
  11. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    That is the best Honest Trailer yet. Harshest one, too.

    I didn't say he didn't feel bad. I said feeling bad is no indicator that someone won't kill again, that someone suddenly develops a code against killing. It just means they'll kill when they think they need to even if they don't like it. That's a big plot point in the Extremis arc of Iron Man, the one they based the third movie on. Iron Man tries to talk the bad guy out of a fatal confrontation, fails, and says "Damn your for making me do that" to his corpse. That's not evidence Iron Man has a code against killing, it's evidence he doesn't.

    Another one from comics. Nexus, from the old First Comics series, is an intergalactic executioner. His job is to kill bad guys. That doesn't mean he likes killing. In one of his early adventures Nexus is roped into a gladiator fight. To survive, he has to kill the other gladiator, a big green monster. After the fight someone comes along and ask Nexus what it is and he says "That is my shame." And then he keeps on killing people.

    So, there's no indication in Man of Steel that this is the moment when Superman realizes killing was wrong. For all we know from what's on film he's a guy that let his dad die to protect himself, doesn't mind causing collateral damage when he fights, will kill if he has to, and doesn't stick around to clean up or help victims. And I think some of that is intentional. Snyder said he wants to keep the no-killing thing up in the air, to keep the possibility that Superman might kill on the table because it's cooler that way.

    And, c'mon, just because people want a Superman that's more colorful and less homicidal doesn't mean we want a "Disneyfied" version. He's been colorful and non-lethal for three quarters of a century now, except for a few regrettable missteps. Colorful and non-lethal are very essential parts of the character, at least when people with the mentality of teenage boys aren't reimagining him as "kewl" and barely in control of his berserker rages, like Lobo or Wolverine. And Disney owns Wolverine, so even if Disney did buy Superman somehow that wouldn't mean he was toned down.
     
  12. Wonderwall

    Wonderwall Moderator
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    Oh I don't know about harshest. He at least finished it, can't say the same for After Earth :D
     
  13. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Me watches.

    Okay, that was awesome.
     
  14. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

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    I think that is a bit much though, I don't think Snyder is keeping it up in the air to keep it cooler. He said the action Superman took might help stir up his aversion to killing later on, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. If in MOS 2... Superman is the exact same or has no problem killing until Batman comes along then I'll take back all the defending I did for this film. Wouldn't that kind of suck if they did that (where Superman was ready to beat up and kill anyone in sight then Batman comes along and calms him down.) Bleghh if that happens... Superman would be irrelevant to me at that point forward, and I would not see another Goyer/Snyder film. lol.....
    Anyways back to the film Superman couldn't really do much in terms of saving everyone. He was was fighting an army that were just about as powerful as himself... and even though they were few... remember the times he did save people, The fighter Jet Pilot, The helicopter Gunner, Colonel Hardy, Lois, The aircraft Lois and Emil were in. Yeah it would have been awesome to see him do some of the clean up or do more Superman-y things, but ultimately he was Superman for like 2 days and all those days he was fighting an army of other Supermen. I give him a pass for killing Zod because IMO he really looked like he down right hated having to do it, along with begging Zod to stop... it appeared he did so not just for the family, but because I think he knew he would have to kill Zod. Again I sound like a broken record but Supes has killed before and those other times he didn't seem so broken up about it. Well in the comics, (in the what 80's was it?)... anyways it did haunt him, but he did ruthlessly kill them so that still is worse than MOS IMO. But in Superman 2 there is no excuse for killing Zod and Co. He smiled after tossing them into the cold abyss. I really love those movies, but that part people always seem to gloss over and forget. As for Pa Kent's death in MOS (who mentioned that BTW?) Anyways I actually thought that scene was dumb until my brother and I discussed it and I thought it was only 85% dumb... I realized it was about faith and trust. He didn't want to let his dad die but he ultimately trusted his judgement... I do still think he could have saved the father and no one would have known but "eh" I still thought it was okay. lol... I mean it did help build up his faith in humanity... ( though that's a very sucky way to do that... so yeah def. think that Goyer and Co. screwed that one up.) But again it didn't ruin the movie for me. I see your points about the Disney thing too BTW... I know they wouldn't completely Disney-fy him but I still think they would screw him up somehow. ;) I just threw that out there just cause, lol ;)
    BTW, Thanks for being such a good chap and putting up with my annoying and craziness, ha ha. :D



    D.
     
  15. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    The proof is in the pudding my friend. You know how a movie goes from making 120 mil (rounding up) one weekend to only making 40 million the next? Bad word of mouth. Little to no repeat business. Things not synonymous with movies that are considered masterpieces. Heres the thing dood, nobody is forcing you to give your opinion so simply saying "imo" doesn't hold much in the way of backing up your words. Saying it had great expository, visuals, action and emotion means nothing in the way of supporting your opinion because that can be said of any blockbuster that came out in 2013. I could use those words to describe Pacific Rim. You don't need to prove MoS was the best movie ever to qualify your love for it. Its not necessary to say "if Superman was done in Avengers style it would be riddled with more plot holes than one could ever count" (especially when you consider that MoS was myriad in plot holes) because it just tells me your a blind fan boy. Its not a position you wanna take.
     
  16. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Sure, people complained that the other Superman movies had too little action and too much story, but this had the opposite problem. There was WAAAAAAAY too much action and too little story. The action scenes went on and on, sacrificing the story. I checked my watch a ton of times during the crazy long final battle. Tell me, how does that make MoS better than Michael Bay's Transformers? Same problem: all action, no story. The script was weak, regardless of the decision to make Superman kill. I don't about anyone else, but this movie killed my interest in DC's movie catalogue. I have no interest or plans to see Superman Vs Batman or whatever Justice League they come up with. And no, it's not as good as Iron Man, and not even close to TDK. They had stories, they used action only to compliment the story. The plot came first. Here, the entire movie was a set up to final battle that bored me to tears. It's the kind of summer movie that drives me crazy, the kind that has no interest in anything but blowing stuff up and showing off its fancy CGI. Heck, Superman Returns was 100% better than this, IMO!
     
  17. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    I'm sorry, but no way. Man of Steel may have been flawed, but I didn't fall asleep watching it.
     
  18. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    We really need to drop "But Superman II!" as an argument. Have you seen Superman II? Superman II is ridiculous. In its last few minutes Superman II squanders everything the first Superman had built in terms of "getting it right" by throwing away the rulebook and Superman's established character. Apparently killing Zod and crew is just one thing, there's also the fact that he develops crazy Deus Ex Machina powers that have never even been hinted at before, that he uses those powers to tamper with Lois Lane's mind, and that he then goes off and gets petty revenge by picking a fight with a regular guy, breaking his hand, and throwing him through a pinball machine.

    [video=youtube;1nu3CLQm-SI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nu3CLQm-SI[/video]

    So, yeah, Superman II did it is not a good enough argument.
     
  19. darkdetective

    darkdetective Former TZ Reporter/Reviewer

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    I've often felt Superman II got more wrong than right. I mean, he gives up his powers just to sleep with Lois? Sure, Supes would be conflicted, but he'd never actually go through with it, giving up his ability to help people for selfish reasons. I think Lois and Clark was the most accurate version of Supes, surprisingly.
     
  20. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

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    Edit: nevermind... I am too tired to keep defending how I like this film... it's one thing to disagree but to say stating my opinion is pointless or I am a "blind fanboy" seems to show me I should just duck out of this discussion before it gets worse. or somehow I make it worse. I respect everyone's view and opinion about this film and I'll just leave it at that. :)
     
    #200 Dusty, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2013

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