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Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Feb 26, 2008.
Well, J'onn was green...he was the only one I got.
I went by hair color.
Personally, my favorite part of the movie was that they gave three characters (Martian Manhunter, Thr Flash, and Hal Jordan) distinct, unconnected arcs that melded at the climax, all of which had great payoff and never seemed clunky. And that was on top of the main storyline of a giant floating dinosaur island.
That, in and of itself, is a great accomplishment, I think. It's a real challenge to juggle so many plotlines and rarely, if ever, trip over yourself.
Not in his human disguie he wasn't.
I saw it on YTV a few weeks ago, and was unimpressed.
I think this movie suffered from the writers trying to be too "cool" and "mature" with the story. The amount of blood and gore was unnecessary if you ask me, especially after watching the DCAU for so long and having little to none of it appearing. Yet the stories were much better at capturing my imagination. Sometimes even being epic. That, and I didn't like that they offed King Farady and Colonel Flagg.
After seeing the JLU episode "Task Force X", I just thought that the writers were trying to score too many goals with this one by taking out characters of the sort.
I mean, Colonel Flagg is just too cool of a guy to kill off. Admittedly though, his death was one of the few 'not so ridiculously overdone' serious moments of the film.
And of course we had the highly predictable and so very unnecessary "is Superman dead" moments in the film. Was there really any need?
In the end, Justice League: The New Frontier just didn't cut it, because the writers didn't know how to pace themselves and just focus on the story rather than all that extra nonsense.
3 Stars from me. Would have been 2.5 Stars, but I did like that there was some focus on Hal Jordan and The Flash.
... Ditto! That's one of the things I didn't like as well.
Y'know, that is the best explanation for Robin that I've ever seen!
I enjoyed the small moments of the movie, mostly in the early-going. The Martian's story. Some of the clips with Batman. Flash's quips. But count me amoung those who were underwhelmed with the project as a whole. A bunch of heros fighing an horde of faceless aliens? Boy, I haven't seen a movie like that since Ulimate Avengers! Or JL Secret Origins before that. Boring... Add that to the oh-the-world-is-so-horrible-50s setting and the uninspired character designs... One of those movies I cared about less the more it went on.
Well, the network was still under the same management, I think it could've aired edit-free, why it didn't is a mystery.
I didn't want to reply to certain comments made, since I tend to go off and fight the person and their comments rather than give an explanation, but I ended up doing it anyway because I felt that I needed to comment on what was said since I'am one of the big fans of New Frontier, both the comic and movie.
These are from DisneyBoy from the first airing of the DTV:
Hmm, do you mean the comics in general, or the New Frontier comic? Because I would take it that everyone knows who Wonder Woman is, and even if they didn't know what the JSA was, they would take it as "there was another superhero team before the JLA". I'm also having trouble regarding what you were trying to say, so maybe you could explain it more.
Actually, Hal was in alot of scenes, so was J'onn, while Barry had his scenes. I doubt people who have a problem trying to connect themselves with these characters because how they were protrayed were easy and they were featured enough. Besides, as for Superman, while he didn't have as much screen time (like Batman & Wonder Woman), you did have enough to understand him. Add that with the overexposure on the character that everyone knows about for the past 70 years.
I'm mixed on that as well, though there your examples are the ones I don't have a problem with. Hal shooting the Korean was done with suspense, and what you saw was what you needed. But it was scenes like Ace Morgan saying "He did it!" Then ending it with the SOB line, that wasn't needed. At first I cringed, but second or third time through I accepted it. But still.
That's another thing I would agree about. But, it was just the bad moments in the score or the bits I just didn't care for. A reason why I skip them on the soundtrack to the film.
Could you explain the material that was disappointingly stilted for you?
Okay, not you DisneyBoy, but for everyone: why is it that you think there is no Batman without his voice played by Kevin Conroy? Kevin is a good guy, but there have been other great Batman voices, not just him. Once the Batman DTV comes out, is that what I'm going to hear every time? Guys, it's time to move on and accept other actors as the Dark Knight, not just sticking with one man.
I had no problem with it, given that the villian was worthy enough to bring all the heroes together to form the JLA afterwards. You need that kind of villian. There was more mystery and suspense from the comic than in the DTV, but the voice of the Centre was never in the comic at all. Overall though, both versions are same if not similar.
Actually, that is what New Frontier is: it starts out with vignettes on these characters, but there is a plot thread that ties them together in the end. It's like the show Heroes and films like Independence Day, Transformers, and other movies you and I have seen or know about; there are characters all over the globe, but the plot leads all of them together in the end. Same deal here. You also have to add the the fact that this is the '50s, and Hal would sound like that because back then, it was normal. Batman giving a subtle threat is the old school Batman, as much as that guy Iris interviews in Vegas; back then that was normal because it was the times. Hence why this is a period piece film.
Now the comments from the recent airing of the DTV:
Old school. Remember, the old comics and in Superfriends had WW's jet invisible but not her, she wasn't invisible.
That's Diana's blood; she was wounded in battle.
How so, dark knight 90?
How so? I wonder if what made you get bugged was because of Cooke's artstyle. Like Timm's, and even Kirby's, their styles go beyond that of one character onto how they draw people and things. For example, what could bug you from a Kirby art picture would probably be the big hands. But either way, could you explain this more?
You do know that the writers of the DTV didn't MAKE this story, they're only adapting it. New Frontier is a comic book story, and this is the movie adaptation of it.
I guess that is it for the moment on my reply toward these comments.
and the brave and bold look of batman.....
please even marvel goe better treated than SDD
also green arrow creeped me out
I saw this last week on CN and I have to say, it was a good movie! I enjoyed the story and the art, I hope we get more like this. My only complaint was Batman's voice. Ouch. I may buy this on Dvd along with Superman: Doomsday.
As much as I enjoyed the movie (which was a lot), I find it aggravating that these DTVs, both Marvel and DC, have to be under 80 minutes. Where's that written? And why? Is it for the younger kids with the short attention spans that this movie is too mature for? Even another 20 minutes of stuff from the book that wasn't in the final film would make this thing a scant 95 minutes. Why is that too long? Why does something as epic as New Frontier (and moreso The Death of Superman) have to be wittled down to bite size?
Well... yes, I knew it was a comic book adaptatation (like Superman: Doomsday), but no, I have not read either of these issues since I don't actually read comic books at all. After seeing this movie however, I'm given the impression that this was probably a poor comic book story to begin with.
Hopefully I'm wrong and the comic was much better than this movie, which was average at best compared to the DCAU projects and other episodes and DTVs that I've seens since the early 90s.
Whatever the case be, it is what it is with me: I didn't like it much, except for a few bits and pieces here and there.
I think it all comes down to money. I think that 75-minute mark is the balance point between giving the filmmakers a good chunk of time to tell a story and stay within the budgets that they have to work with. 20 minutes is more than 25% more movie. That's a whole lot of extra pencil mileage, CGI work, sound design, and voice recording.
Don't get me wrong -- I think an extra 20 minutes would have made New Frontier infinitely better, and nearly every review of it I've read said the same thing. Maybe someday when it makes a gazillion dollars, they can go back and do the New Frontier Director's Cut or something.
I certainly didn't think the original comic was bad. I sat down with the giant-sized Absolute edition of it before the movie came out and read it all in one sitting, and while I'm not going to elevate it to the level of Watchmen or The Dark Knight Returns or Will Eisner's A Life Force in the pantheon of comic book greatness, it is still quite an amazing and ambitious comic that is also just a big bucket of rollicking retro fun that works no matter how much or how little you happen to know about DC Comics superheroes or the history of the 1950's. As I said way back in my review of the DVD, the biggest problem I have with The New Frontier DTV is that a whole big bunch of interlocking story threads and plot elements get compressed or dumped entirely for the adaptation. To me, it was a miracle that the movie succeeded at all, considering it had to shrink 400+ pages into 75 minutes. While there are a few points where the DTV actually improves on the graphic novel, the original graphic novel is a much richer and more involving experience.
Did anybody else notice Diana's changing outfit? One moment, she has her skirt on, then another, she's in her JL/JLU shorts, then back to her skirt.... weird!
I did during the big battle
There was another time, but I've not watch the movie since I got it... and never intend to again, so I can't say!
I doubt it. New Frontier is finished. The best we can hope for I think is that as the DTVs become more successful, WB will make the new ones longer.
Anybody got an image of this? I don't remember it, and I didn't buy the DVD since I really wasn't crazy about this movie.
I guess if this thread is still active I can post my review for it which I made before reading anyone else's thoughts. You know to not let it taint the review and all.
Kind of weird really that in a Justice League special the focus isn't on the 3 Big Members of the Justice League. Yeah Batman's there and more brooding and alone then ever being hunted (at least at first) and only accepting Robin as a way to show he isn't hateful on kids. And Superman has uh... something in there are about learning to have to be a leader but besides a couple of saves and an inspirational speech he actually ends up useless in the big battle having to be saved by Aquaman of all people (and the corny looking Aqua Man at that. Then again considering New Frontier has some very well done designs for pretty much all the character he does have a certain coolness to him you wouldn't find in the regular 50's and espically the 70's toons). And then there's Wonder Woman. Who had to... oh wait she didn't really learn anything (or at least it didn't come across clear she did) and ends up getting bloodied and coming back and fighting for America which like everyone else kind of grew to hate but when a common enemy came quickly threw away those strands of hatred for the common goal. Also didn't have too much to do (though I'm sure Lucy Lawless had fun delievering lines for another Warrior Princess heh heh) and she dosen't have a "I have solo movies/shows" excuse to fall back on either. So though there are a bunch of cameos from various members of the league (Atom, Green Arrow, and at the end various JLA, Young Justice and even Teen Titan cameos) it really comes more on three heroes specifically that we got to know more in the original Justice League show that some may not be familar with.
J'onn J'onzz, aka Maritan Manhunter who came to earth years ago, impersonated the guy he scared to death and learned enough from watching TV (Kind of sad that Bugs morph is one of the biggest bits of Screentime the Rabbit's gotten on CN latley) to becoming some hot shot detective. And as mentioned he also feels bitterness towards humans in general and even tries going back to his home planet (which I thought was wiped out. Then again I don't know if he knows that) but that dosen't work and has to learn to stick up for the humans. Oh and how to morth into something more earth friendly (though Faraday's right: Real men and martians wear pants not that... whatever is suppose to be his attire. Seriously no matter who draws that it still looks alll kinds of corny). Besides having some nice detecitve moments from Bruce I also did like his show of powers and finally getting able to trust humans again.
Then there's Barry Allen aka the Flash. Since this is of course the 50's variation of Flash it's not the one from the JL series we know. As a result instead of a pianful wisecracking and flirty flash it's one who is more grounded with a steady girlfriend with more hurdles to handle. Like being hunted down by the government for his powers and almost giving up being a hero. In a nice show of teamwork and using the Atom's (uh Ray Palmer's) shrinking device he's able to help take out the alein ship. That and the use of taking out the bombs around Vegas (kind of like "Wild Cards" except it actually showed his speed well throughout instead of just in intervals) and vibrating through the net defintley earned him the title of fastest man alive quite well. Also liked how his girlfriend was able to find out his secret identiy and give him the inspiration he needed to succeed since really that's not something you'd find in most of these DC romances with girls either coming or going or never knowing both sides of they're heroes.
Of course that's what the real star of this movie had: Hal Jordan. Really thinking about if when thinking of a Justice League movie, Green Lantern is one of the last people you'd think would get the top billing. Superman and Batman obviously, Wonder Woman for the power of the chick vote, Flash as the Wild Card and J'onn J'onnz on alien rookie syndrome (and since didn't have no Hawkpeople in it, no Shayera and super dues ex machina mace action). I wouldn't of thought that the guy with the giant glowing ring would be the one who'd actually get the credit for taking this center and shielding it and destroying it in outer space. Then again he goes through the most development: learning about the truth heartaches of war (in a scene that would not of gotten by Cartoon Network if it weren't for the fact they are defintley vying for that middleground title), kept his dream of flying going through his stay at the hospital, got a job and the boss's daughter as a hottie girlfriend, tried to save the rocket they were on and ended up getting saved by supes, was chosen by some alien (kind of a bit too convientant that he's the one most worthy of the entire population of the world but whatever) to get the ring and then when flying through the alein's mind screw realizes just how to use it. Yeah like Flash said you never expect the new guy with the ring to be doing the universal saving over some of the other bigger named heroes. Still a good show by Lantern though.
And in general a good DTV. Everthing flowed at a nice enough clip, the action was well coregraphed (though besides Flash's movement and some of the more graphic bits nothing too special), the story worked well enough lineally and gave a good reason for the heroes to gather. Though in truth they could of done a lot more to actually show the paranoria and the hatred and bigotry and genearl mistrust more. Everyone is sick of it and supposedley gets over it (main hero cast anyway) but it never comes across as much. Then again when you're doing mainly action maybe that's the problem. Still pretty good stuff and definite show that even with JLU and DCAU finished the Justice League can still go strong even if taking a new direction. Hey if it's a direction this mature imagine what's going to happen in it's next reincarnations.
So this movie aired on Cartoon Network again on 11/29/08 (I think this made about the 12th time that this movie has aired on Cartoon Network). This movie has grown on me a little. I'll admit it's definitely not as bad as I thought it was when I first saw it. And I'll give them that these are pretty good portrayals of Superman and Batman. But I'm not a huge fan of the Zena version of Wonder Woman. I think I'm gonna like the Wonder Woman DTV version of her more.
What I still don't like about this movie though is the whole dinosaurs thing. I guess they're supposed to be symbolic of communism. But I mean if the villians are supposed to be communists then make them communists. Don't make them dinosaurs! They're probably just following the way that Cooke's novel went. Unless someone here knows otherwise....
It's the second or third time.