"Justice League: Doom" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Feb 28, 2012.

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Rate and Comment - "Justice League: Doom" Animated Feature

  1. *****

    21.6%
  2. ****1/2

    21.6%
  3. ****

    35.3%
  4. ***1/2

    9.8%
  5. ***

    9.8%
  6. **1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. **

    2.0%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. *

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    Batman was Prepared for the Unexpected.
    But is he Prepared for the Unthinkable?

    [​IMG]
    Justice League: Doom
    Studio: Warner Bros. Animation
    Release Date: February 28th, 2012

    Synopsis: The Justice League consists of Earth’s finest super heroes and protectors of humanity. But in the mind of the Dark Knight, it contains potentially the most dangerous people on the planet. Over time, Batman has compiled top-secret contingency plans should any of them go rogue. When these files are stolen by a rising group of super-villains, the Justice League embarks on a collision course that will test the very fabric of its alliance. With a stellar voice cast headed by Kevin Conroy, Tim Daly and Nathan Fillion, this thrilling DC Universe Animated Original adventure will challenge what you know about the Justice League as well as redefine what heroes are made of!

    Comments on Justice League: Doom?

    Please post all discussions concerning about the Justice League: Doom animated feature in this thread! Discussion for the home video release of Justice League: Doom can be found in the proper talkback linked below.

    Related Threads:
    -Justice League: Doom Feature Review (Spoilers)
    -Justice League: Doom Blu-ray/DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
    -JLA: Tower of Babel Graphic Novel Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Year One Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Green Lantern: Emerald Knights Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -All-Star Superman Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Superman/Batman: Apocalypse Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Under the Red Hood Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Superman/Batman: Public Enemies Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Green Lantern: First Flight Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Wonder Woman Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Gotham Knight Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Justice League: The New Frontier Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Superman Doomsday Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

    Note: Remember, this talkback thread is for discussion of the feature film. If you wish to talk about the home video release, please click on the appropriate link above. We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
  2. suss2it

    suss2it New Member

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    The story was pretty basic, and a step down from some of my favourites like Crisis on Two Earths and Under the Red Hood, but I still liked it.

    The designs were all pretty good, they were pretty much the Crisis on Two Earths designs for the heroes. Liked that they tweaked Batman so he didn't look old, but Superman and Wonder Woman looked kinda off. Cyborg and the villains for the most part looked really cool.

    Speaking of Crisis, did anyone notice all the footage from it in the opening credits? Guess that means these two are canon with each other.

    The voice work was really good. It was a treat to hear everyone come back again. Conroy especially killed it with Batman. I think it's his best outta all the DCU movies so far. Cyborg's voice took getting used to though, guess I was just so accustomed to Khary Payton's rendition. Fillion was really good as Hal and fit the character perfectly. Wouldn't mind him coming back to voice more Hal.

    My only minor complaint, we didn't really see the League act as a team, everyone pretty much had one on one battles with their respective foes and the Royal Flush Gang. Except of course when Batman & Flash double teamed Jack. It was actually pretty cool to see Flash use his intangibility, since we never really get to see that animated.

    The final battle where everyone paired off against their rogue was reminiscent of the final battles in CO2E. I think here they could've switched it up a bit. But then again we wouldn't have gotten that awesome WW vs. Cheetah round 2. Loved WW's knockout. She's actually kinda ruthless though. Back when she ripped off Cyborg's arm, she thought he was Cheetah. This movie really made me a fan of Cheetah. She was pretty badass and I loved her voice and attitude. Especially when she nonchalantly slit Savage's throat.

    I feel as though they coulda made Bane more badass though. They could've had him co-conspiring with Savage so that we could see his more intelligent side that we rarely get to see in animation. And the cutting of venom tube to defeat him has become very stale.

    All in all, pretty good movie, and a pretty good swan song for both Dwayne McDuffie and Laurent Montgomery.
     
  3. Dusty

    Dusty Superman.

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    Holy smokes! Okay first I really loved this movie, the voices, the backgrounds, the animation, the action, and the acting was superb. The only thing that was a tad annoying to me was that the character designs were all over the place, ;) but I still really really enjoyed this movie, everyone involved did a fantastic job. But I especially enjoyed the wonderful tribute to Dwayne McDuffie, okay, I apologize if this isn't the right place for this, and I really wish I had said it sooner but I just could never find the right words, so here goes...

    I have always had great respect for Mr. McDuffie, I remember him emailing me about a custom of Gear I made back in 2004. Anyways, he asked ME if he could post a picture of Gear on HIS website (it is safe to say my reply was a huge, "YES!") I was ecstatic, I mean just him emailing me (a lowly 17 year old kid) made my year, I absolutely loved his show Static Shock, and for him to actually see MY custom and actually email me about it was just amazing and I will never forget it. Now, unfortunately I never knew half of all that other great stuff about him, I never really knew he had done soooo much more than just write comics and create an awesome TV show, but man, now I admire him so much more.
    So to Mr. McDuffie: Thanks so much for all the amazing things you did. For all the great characters you made that have influenced me in my life, (regardless of race or color or religion, TBD, those were never an issue in my choice of a hero I looked up to.) But you did make characters I did look up to, and still do, they and you will forever be an immensely great and positive influence for me, so again I say this, but with all my heart... Thank you. :D

    Sorry again if this post is in the wrong place Mods, but really I just wanted to express how much Mr. McDuffie inspired me on a personal level. Back when he passed I just really couldn't find the right thing to say, I still feel I haven't. But I suppose this will have to do. :)


    D.
     
  4. tenderheartbear

    tenderheartbear Member

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    I completely agree with all these points.

    Slightly more obvious than the clips appearing in the credits was the fact the theme music was (basically) the same.
     
  5. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    In the opening credits sequence, we actually see a few clips from Crisis on 2 Earths, so despite the differences in voices, I unequivocally consider this movie to be the sequel. Normally, I don't even bother with continuity among DC animated movies, but since I know a lot of fans like to speculate, I decided to throw in that tidbit.

    I remember a lot of fans were very disappointed that All-Star Superman didn't have the scene from the comics in which Superman talked down a troubled teenaged girl from committing suicide. I couldn't help but think about it when Metallo disguised himself as the disenfranchised Daily Planet reporter. Superman's line, "You're stronger than you know" is even similar to what he says to the girl in the comic. I like to think the scene in this movie was at least a little based on the fan favorite scene from fan-favorite scene that didn't make it to All-Star Superman.

    I think the movie is definitely entertaining, but at the same time it can also be a movie uber-meticulous, stereotypical comic/sci-fi fans can nitpick constantly. The villains make the classic mistake of leaving the heroes to die instead of seeing to it that the heroes actually bite the dust, or delivering the finishing blows themselves. I also thought it was funny that Superman chased down the missile to close proximity to the sun, but when the solar flares erupted, he was able to race back to Earth with more then 7 minutes left before the flares would've reached Earth unimpeded. I also liked to joke that the coffin Batman was stuffed in must've been the largest casket ever, as Batman was able to fit with one of his parents' corpses, flip his body around while inside, and even have enough space to extend his arm while punching away at the door.

    Anyone notice that the Justice League was at one point referred to as the "JLA"? I think that's a first for animation since the 1980's.

    I was extremely happy that they fixed a "problem" with Co2E, in which the entire climax hinged around Batman and virtually none of the rest of the League. Cyborg was a good addition to the movie, albeit I do get the feeling that it's not at all a coincidence that Cyborg is a JL member in the comics now instead of a Titan. I think it would've been great if they could've gotten more into the strife between Batman and the rest of the League. Overall, this movie really had me wishing they could've extended the movie by 20 minutes, but since we know that none of these movies are afforded that luxury I'm content with what they did. Finally, I think McDuffie (R.I.P.) and the staff did a solid job of keeping the gist of the "Tower of Babel" storyline and, despite the nitpickable aspects of the movie, make the protocols seem more sensible than the original story's overall.
     
  6. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!! Moderator Reporter

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    My review for the News, Justice League: Doom - The Ample, Abundant Joys of Doom, is live now, and don't forget darkdetective's review from the premiere Justice League: Doom: Funny Things Happen on the Way to JL Apocalypse. Interviews from the NYC premiere with Andrea Romano, Kevin Conroy, and Phil Morris should be up shortly.

    Quick note: GL was the only one who said at the table, "I don't have a problem with Batman's contingency plans." Also note that he's the one whose contingency plan hinged on a subconscious thought that nobody should have the kind of power that a GL ring grants its wearer, least of all him. That's a character detail that means he really wouldn't have had a problem with Batman's contingency plans. I'm sure Dwayne McDuffie sweated that detail.

    One thing I'd have done differently at the end hinges on the idea that if Batman was paranoid enough to have contingency plans against the League, he'd have to have contingency plans against a lot of the heavy-hitter supervillains, too (or be able to come up with them once he knew who they were dealing with). I have him bust those out, or just have the League trade supervillains. Superman and Bane have a rematch from the "Knight Time" episode of TNBSA that lasts about as long. J'onn J'onzz takes out Star Sapphire (intangibility + grabbing the gem out of her belly == fight over). Batman takes out Ma'alefa'ak (who I think I'm just going to call "J'oe" from now on because I just can't spend the brain cells to remember how to type that all the time ;)) the exact same way J'oe took out J'onn. Flash beats up Cheetah ("You're fast. I'm faster."). Then take your pick of Wonder Woman and GL against Metallo and Mirror Master 'cuz either match-up would be fun. I'd almost want a WW/Metallo fight to happen off-screen. "Where's Wonder Woman and Metallo?" (CRASH! WW falls through the ceiling to body-slam Metallo, then rips out the kryptonite power cell.) "Here. Get this in the lead containment box before Superman's exposed to it." Cyborg follows Vandal Savage and the rest of the movie goes on as before.

    But yeah, I thought it was a blast and just as much fun as the best episodes of Justice League/Justice League Unlimited. I'm also glad that apparently, I'm not the only one who spotted a chance at a Batman and the Outsiders DTV from the ending of the movie, and I liked how they pulled in that one element from the comics of Superman giving Batman the chunk of kryptonite himself.
     
  7. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    I alrady covered my thoughts for the movie here and here if you want to see them.

    This did disappoint me as well. I kept expecting that "Trade partners!" moment and it never came when it seemed like such a simple solution.

    Also, J'oe is a much better name than "that evil Martian." I just couldn't be bothered trying to remember how to spell that mess. I'd feel bad for any editor who had to deal with a story where his name is said a lot.

    Yes, without bothering to lead shield it and Supes not even giving a cursory grunt from the stuff :sweat:
     
  8. Dragnatek

    Dragnatek Active Member

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    As far as a Justice League movie goes this was in my opining many steps up from Crisis on Two Earths which was a complete mess. This movie had a simple plot but it worked to it's advantage and was executed perfectly.

    The plans used to take out the league were so much better here then the ones used in Tower of Babel the comic this plot idea was taken from. Those plans had too much luck involved for them to be effective.
     
  9. Hero Supreme

    Hero Supreme Mr Jinx No More

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    This movie also reminded me a lot of the tone of JLU and Crisis on Two Earths... definitely a good thing. And I thought that opening credits music sounded familiar.

    Overall, I liked it - almost as much as CO2E, but not quite. While the number of foes was impressive, Doom lacked that one charismatic villain to really sell the threat. Don't get me wrong, Vandal Savage was good, but I think sticking with Ra's Al Ghul may have been even better. And Vandal was no Owlman.

    I mostly liked the takedown tactics and the takedown sequence was compelling, though the end result probably should have been more effective. It put them out of commission for what, 30 minutes? Where the movie truly succeeded was in presenting Batman as both vulnerable and heroic. Too often he single handedly saves the day. In Doom, victory was a team effort.
     
  10. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    I figured the box was lead-lined. When Batman opened it, you see Superman raise his arm in a defensive position, and put it back down when Batman shut the box.
     
  11. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    I was surprised about how much I enjoyed Cyborg since I was worried his inclusion would be forced. I dare say it was handled better than it is in the actual comics.
     
  12. Ishin ookami

    Ishin ookami New Member

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    Oh man, I do so love me some quality Super Hero Smackdown. And this Movie delivered what daddy likes.

    I think one of the things I dislike about some of these features, and some portions of the DCAU and specifically about CO2E, is that at times they don't quite give superman enough credit as the teams resident powerhouse. CO2E had everyone roughly equal or more powerful than their evil counterpart, and Batman was fighting Owlman with broken ribs so I don't consider that a fair fight, yet Superman was having difficulty against some of the flunkies early in the film, and didn't so much as get in one punch on his counterpart. So it was great seeing him get a chance to really show off. His *ahem* "fight" with Ace was hilarious. And seeing the way he evened the score with metallo was also cool. It was great to see him able to travel very fast through space, and nearly able to stop that rocket on his own.

    Maybe it was just me, but I was a little disappointed with Batmans fight against Bane. Sure, we all knew Bats would win, but I was a little disappointed he didn't thoroughly torture and brutalize Bane considering the colossal way Bane humiliated and twisted the knife in him at first. Sure, Batman doesn't kill. But we all know he does have a vengeful streak in him and doesn't hesitate to wound those he's really PO'd at on a psychological level. I expected him to enact at least seven different kinds of contingency plans on Bane before finally knocking him out.

    Also some things I really liked in this flick is that some of those setups were absolutely brutal. Batmans was so hurtful on several levels. J'on's was just... nasty. GL's was also heartfelt and affecting. Supes was... well it was done before. WW's... was the most unexpected, and ultimately the most Bond villain esque of the bunch. Seconded only by Flash's situation. Of all the films you want to ape, why an overhyped Keanu Reaves early 90's star vehicle? Why? Not that it wasn't well played. Just... not as well done as Batman's or J'ons.

    The film was great. not perfect, but still great. I was happy to hear most of the cast reprise their roles. And after visiting a dimension where the Justice League took power, it makes sense Batman would put together these plans, so its logical this would be a continuation of CO2E.

    Overall though, im starting to get a little burned out on these DC animated features. Either we have character pieces like All-Star Superman and Batman: Year One, or action oriented epic punch-ups like WW or CO2E's and Batman/Superman Apocalypse. . I'd really like to see something more like Teen Titans: Trouble in Tokyo again. Something more humorous, fun, and light hearted. Something like a mxyzptlk feature with John DeLancie (Q from Star Trek TNG, DS9, and (ugh) Voyager) playing the role. Or at least, playing another similar role. That would just so totally perfect and help break up the flow that is in danger of becoming just a bit stale.

    I give this one a 4 1/2
     
  13. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    Warner Home Video has provided new images, videos, and a brief Q & A spotlighting Nathan Fillion, the voice of Green Lantern in Justice League: Doom, now available to own on home video and download. Click here or on the image below for more.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Primal Slayer

    Primal Slayer Member

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    I liked it for the most part. The JL designs were weak though while everyone outside of them were really great.

    Did love WW in this movie, she had one of the best fight scenes and we got to see how much of a warrior she really is. She isnt afraid to go to the extremes if she feels she needs to, her ripping off Cyborg/Cheetahs arm was brutal.
     
  15. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!! Moderator Reporter

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    Getting this feature published ran long enough that we just decided to hold it for the premiere of the movie, but our NYC Premiere interviews with Phil Morris, Kevin Conroy, and Andrea "Rockstar" Romano is now live! Go check 'em out and hear Kevin Conroy's version of the infamous "origins of Andrea Beaumont" story.

    re: the kryptonite bullet. I assumed the box was lead lined (or just plain lead) because Superman is carrying it to hand it to Batman, plus the body language thing that BigFatHairyDeal mentioned above. If it wasn't, the scene would have been more like, "Got a minute? You had contingency plans eewahasdfsagha kryptonite can't breathe gack >thud<" and that would have had a lot less impact.
     
  16. Ishin ookami

    Ishin ookami New Member

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    One thing that I just thought of while reflecting on this film. How did J'on survive? The substance that set him on fire is coming from inside him, that means the fire, or at least the smoke/heat would spread to his internal organs. Not only that, but allowing for his super human toughness to keep him alive, considering his Pyro-phobia (fear of fire) how is he even sane afterwards?

    I still love the film, yet still think it does have its flaws, and also think its time for some lighter fare from the DC animated features. I'm burned out on animated epics by this point.
     
  17. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!! Moderator Reporter

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    J'oe told J'onn that the poison he was given was reacting with his physiology to secrete magnesium through his sweat, so it's on the surface of his skin and probably wouldn't burn much deeper than that because there would be no magnesium to burn. I would expect the surface layer of skin to be burned away by the time the fire was out, but J'onn's pretty tough and he's a shapeshifter. If he has that much control over his body, maybe he could use those powers to heal his skin once the fire was put out. Mental trauma is a real possibility, but J'onn's also a telepath, so maybe that isn't an issue for him, either. A lot of that kind of stuff also happens after the fact -- people may not show symptoms of PTSD immediately, so maybe J'onn had some stuff to work out after the events of the movie were finished.

    One of the best things about Dwayne McDuffie's scripts was that the science was always right (allowing for concessions about the super powers, of course). Magnesium is extremely flammable, and magnesium fires can't be put out with water or carbon dioxide fire extinguishers. Magnesium reacts with carbon dioxide to form magnesium oxide in a reaction that produces temperatures over 2000º Celsius, and it reacts with water to form hydrogen, which doesn't exactly react well to fire either. Both the woman who had a crush on J'onn and J'onn himself were making the problem worse with their solutions (assuming she was using a carbon dioxide fire extinguisher).
     
  18. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    And I mean dude survived seeing his wife and children and entire race die right in front of him. Perhaps he's just built up a very thick skin over the years.

    One minor complaint I had was that I would have liked to see more time explaining J'onn's connections to Malefic. He's a rather obscure baddie. Still I thought McDuffie did a good job with him.
     
  19. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator Moderator Reporter

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    I just finished this a few minutes ago. Now I understand that in the comic this came from, Batman leaves the Justice League at the end. But, the movie's faithfulness to that doesn't sit quite right with me. Batman gets up and resigns before the league even votes, but afterward Superman comes up to him and hands him kryptonite. So Supes trusted Batman despite what happened and is basically agreeing with Batman about the need to safeguard against a superhero's abuse of power. So one has to ask: why didn't he say so? It wasn't just him either. GL faulted him, but only for letting the plans fall into the wrong hands. So it seems rather forced for Bats to just throw up his hands and quit over this judgment that his comrades can't appreciate why he would have done such a thing. I can't shake the feeling that this thing would have had a different and better conclusion if it'd taken nothing more than inspiration from this "Tower of Babel" comic.

    Still, it was enjoyable and the core idea was really well done. The psychological attacks were absolutely the best parts; Hal Jordan was disabled with zero violence and Bruce Wayne getting buried with his parents was heart-wrenching stuff - and it was awesome seeing him get out of that through sheer determination and stubbornness. I also appreciate how the plan for Wonder Woman was not really to defeat her, but to just make her fight too much basically. Heh.

    Savage's plot was textbook villainy and CotE definitely had the better story, but it was sufficient for what this story was doing. I question whether we really needed to hear Savage's origin story, though. This isn't like CotE where there were some interesting angles going on with the villains. Everything that made this interesting had to do with the heroes.

    It's an enjoyable movie, probably just good enough to be worthy of four stars. My top three are still All-Star Superman + CotE + JL New Frontier.
     
  20. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some. Moderator

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    Nice use of title sequence! Loved seeing all those characters' names spread across it. And setting up Mirror Master using LexCorp tech to hack the Batcomputer - Luthor Corp Key Generator.

    Felt bad for Martian Manhunter in this one - he got electrocuted, poisoned, lit on fire, and chomped on. Guess they had to since he had it easy in Crisis on Two Earths. And Alfred had some great lines in this one. Also loved seeing some of them in their civies for a bit - John Jones being in an awkward social situation, Barry Allen working too slow for the cops, Clark Kent getting called out of a press event, and Alfred and Bruce doing some banter. "You can eat while you brood."

    Thought it was just an easter egg or this version of Batman also figured out a way to peek at other parallel universes. I'd say they aren't canon since we have Barry in this one and Wally in the other. But even that is moot considering they die all the time and come back and all the history this movie refers to (i.e. Bane trying for 10 years to kill Batman and having broke his back before). But all in all considering everything, it could work as x amount of years after Crisis on Two Earths.

    I looked at it that the movie depicted Batman leaving was a long time coming. At the end of the Royal Flush Gang scene, I felt it was oddly tense between Batman and everyone when they persisted they should hit the sack but Batman snapped saying there was more work to do. And I'd also blame Wonder Woman for being rather hypocritical. She was against Batman's plans when she was just forced to think everyone was Cheetah and almost killed herself plus everyone around her. Additionally, I thought that last seen was an unexpected beat showing the bond between Batman and Superman that not even the rest of the League would understand.

    His plan was sort of Ra's Al Ghul-ish but I'm not all that familiar with Vandal's schemes from the comics either. Yeah, but I agree his origin segment was a bit of fluff. An epilogue of sorts hinting at Batman and the Outsiders would have been neat.
     

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