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Is Marvel burying X-Men and the Fantastic Four?

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics and Collectibles' started by Wonder Woman, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not one to latch on fanboy over-reaction and conspircacy theories but the evidence does seem to be piling up that Marvel is burying X-Men and the Fantastic Four due to Fox owning the movie rights of those characters. Now I don't want to start a discussion on the movie aspect of this about the over-rated MCU movies and how they need to get back those characters (save that discussion for the Entertainment Board), but I want to discuss the comic side of it. The Fantastic Four comic is already done, but it looks like the characters will survive in other titles after Secret War based on some teaser images Marvel releases. But no FF title apparently. Same with the X-Men. In the last issue of Uncanny X-Men one of the characters asks if they even need to be called X-Men at this point, which seems both a bit meta and lays the groundwork for a rebranding. Now Marvel is well within their rights to cut the FF and X-Men if they want but isn't this detrimental to the characters and the comic publisher? It really seems like Marvel is trying to bury the FF and X-Men names but somehow keep the characters at the same time, which seems like bad business and disrespectful to fans.
     
  2. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Dwarf-in-a-flask

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    Yeah, it feels like more and more X-Men migrate over to the Avengers every year. And then there's the whole Inhumans thing. Honestly, I'm just waiting for Marvel to announce that mutants were inhumans all along. They still won't be able to use the characters in their movies, but that seems to be where they're going.
     
  3. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I usually try not to be paranoid about stuff but the lack of anything X-Men from Marvel, aside from the comics (and even then, some X-Fans would complain that there books are getting the least interested writers and the less talented artists), and their near erasure in advertisements and promotional material is fairly noticeable and troubling :ack:.

    Heck, we've had multiple X-Men movies that have seen no cartoon debut alongside them, or X-Men promotion in any form in the cartoons, which is the complete opposite treatment The Avengers and Guardians are getting :shrug:.

    Granted the FF haven't had a movie in a while, but all their villains have been transferred to either The Avengers (Doom) or the Agents of SMASH (Any Negative Zone villain and the Skrulls). The Thing has made a few guest spots but I can't remember the last time I saw him, and the whole FF have only made one whole appearance together in just one episode of SMASH. I was happy to see them, and they looked good there, but a part of me also wonders whether it was a waste to even bother giving them new cartoon designs, VA's, and an appearance at all if they're never going to show up again :sad:.

    At this point, Howard the Duck is more likely to make a meaningful appearance in media than Marvel's First Family and another one of their premier Superhero teams :sweat:.

    And as for the comics...well, it looks like Johnny will be with the Inhumans post-Secret War, and Cyclops will be showing up in an Inhuman book as well, Sue might continue her involvement with SHIELD and The Avengers, while Reed and Ben's statuses are more ambiguous. So who knows how long it'll be before we see a proper Fantastic Four book again :(.

    Rogue, Sunspot, and Cannonball are also apparently now stuck under the Avengers umbrella for the time being, which is more troublesome for Rogue since it's prevented her from being in any X-Book for some time.

    I mean, I get it from a marketing and business standpoint considering Marvel doesn't have complete control over their rights, but as a fan of these properties it's disheartening not to see them get the same positive treatment The Avengers and The Guardians are getting when they're just as integral and essential parts of the MU as those groups are. Far more than The Guardians are, at any rate, even as much as I like the group.

    Now they're trying to push The Inhumans as well, despite The Inhumans debuting with The Fantastic Four, and trying to build them as being as strong a property as The X-Men...which I don't think is possible, but I at least admire Marvel's dedication to making it happen. Heck, one of the more popular Inhumans, Crystal, has been near-completely absent from all Inhuman books for little reason which seems to be related to, once again, the movie rights issue :mad:.
     
  4. Dantheman

    Dantheman Active Member

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    Marvel building up the Inhumans to be a thing just as big as or greater than mutants seems like too much of a "Stop trying to make fetch happen, it's not going to happen" thing to me, IMO.
     
  5. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    Not in the comics, they've confirmed there will be new X-Men and FF books once Secret Wars ends.

    Outside is another matter. It seems they are pulling strings to pull merchandise for those properties. There was a really cool young Professor X figure that Hot Toys made that was mysteriously pulled before release, and it seems similar things have been happening with recent attempts to make merchandise for the X-Men and Fantastic Four.
     
  6. kid rabbit

    kid rabbit Active Member

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    I hear because fox owns the movie rightsd
    disney which owns marvel isn't putting much effort in them
    which is like punishing your kid for something his school did
    "the school is teaching creationism I'm going to beat my kid senseless that will show em"
     
  7. Tommy Lawson

    Tommy Lawson Moderator
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    This is Disney we are talking about here, the same company that once decided to sell the IP rights to Power Rangers to its former owner, only to have that owner take the show to Nickelodeon. Looking back, it might have been easier for Disney to just sit on the IP rights IMO. My theory is that Disney disliked working with, and paying money to, Toei, for the rights to PR, and hated having to share ownership of the property. If PR was truly fully owned by Disney, then they would still be there today IMO. If that theory is accurate, it does explain rather well the friction between Fox and Disney now over the X-Men and Fantastic Four movie rights.
     
  8. JoeMabbon

    JoeMabbon Dwarf-in-a-flask

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    I think Marvel is operating under the misguided belief that if they keep these franchises out of the public eye, FOX will give up and hand the film rights back to them or at least make deals in the same vein as Sony's deals with Spider-Man. I say misguided, because they're are under the impression that the comics and cartoons matter to FOX or the general public. They do not. All audiences and FOX care about are movies. As long as they make money, FOX will make films and continue to hold the rights.
     
  9. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    I've been trying to get information on all of this, but I'm still feeling like I'm not getting it all, or there isn't much here to begin with. I came across this which I guess sums it all up:
    Marvel Still Sabotaging X-Men And The Fantastic Four - CINEMABLEND

    Back when this all started last year or so only when it was the Fantastic Four, I shrugged it off because the Fantastic Four has now seemingly had countless relaunches. I have no doubt in my mind it will be back with AN ALL NEW COLLECTOR'S ISSUE #1 (for the nine millionth time). With X-Men now part of this, I don't think I believe it. Wolverine is one of Marvel's most popular characters. Is Marvel really going to sabotage Wolverine in their comics? In the link above, it mentions that X-Men writers were told not to create new X-Men characters because they could be in the movies. The biggest problem I've always had was that I've felt there are just too many X-Men characters (specifically X-MEN). If "sabotaging" the X-Men means no more new characters, and maybe hopefully thinning out the rosters or making ONLY ONE MAIN DEFAULT X-men team, I'm all for that. What I'm not for is having them be X-Men in space.

    Deadpool is also mentioned in the link above. If Marvel really is sabotaging the X-Men and Fantastic Four, why are they still cramming Deadpool down our throats? In the past 2 years he's had a total of TWELVE different mini series' and an ongoing series. And by my count, THIRTY FIVE total different mini series', ongoing series' and one shots since he first appeared in X-Men Origins. If Marvel truly is bitter because they don't have movie rights to X-Men and Fantastic Four, and they really are sabotaging those comics, why aren't they sabotaging Deadpool? They don't have his movie rights, so why are they apparently not doing anything to Deadpool?
     
  10. nathanlegit

    nathanlegit New Member

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    Trailer looks fine to me. I have been on the fence about this movie. Thing, Sue and even the Torch look well conceived. I cannot buy that as Reed Richards and that is not Victor Von Doom. I can accept that they are going for the Ultimate Fantastic Four vibe with younger characters, but I am especially not feeling Reed. Maybe that will change after the movie.

    Mod Note: Inappropriate image removed.
     
    #10 nathanlegit, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
  11. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    With the reboot film officially declared a flop, does this change Marvel's supposed sabotaging plans? Will the Fantastic Four suddenly return in another ALL NEW LIMITED COLLECTOR'S #1 ISSUE before the year is over?
     
  12. gunleon

    gunleon MPXToonInferno

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    As long as Fox still retains the rights to Fantastic Four, it is not likely there will be any changes to Marvel's plan over the character, which is to split them up and let them join other teams. Johnny Storm will remain as one of the newest members of the Inhumans, while Ben Grimm is going to be part of the All-New Guardians of The Galaxy, along with Venom (Flash Thompson) and Kitty Pryde-Quill/Shadowcat as the new leader.

    Personally, I find that is perhaps the best direction the team should go at this point - rather than being major characters, they should take supporting roles instead as they are known to do very well in those cases.
     
  13. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    To reiterate, Marvel has already said there is going to be some sort of Fantastic Four title in the relaunch. With Johny and Ben busy elsewhere it may have new characters though.

    And a lot of the speculation in the original post has since been disproved. We're getting multiple X-Men books and not only is Deadpool not being killed off, but he's joining the flipping Avengers as well.

    [​IMG]

    Making a character part of your most popular franchise is a weird move if you're trying to bury him.
     
  14. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    Marvel isn't hiding the fact that the Inhumans are directly responsible for the extinction of the mutants. The preview for the first issue of Extraordinary X-Men says the mist is sterilizing mutants and has made it impossible for humans to give birth to mutants, basically ending the mutant race. This is pretty terrible both from a creative standpoint and from an editorial standpoint and it's making me seriously considering ending my time with Marvel. Buying the last couple of X-Men trades seems like a fine enough ending for me. The X-Men are very important characters to me and Marvel is burying them. It's very explicit and obvious and it just shows how ugly the company has gotten. Here's the preview:

    http://www.newsarama.com/25908-terr...mutants-in-extraordinary-x-men-1-preview.html

    And this is a great article about why this is a big mistake by Marvel and how using the Inhumans is terrible on a host of levels:

    http://comicsalliance.com/super-inhumans-vs-mutants/

    I was on the fence about Marvel after Secret Wars and was excited about some of the titles, but this really rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm looking too much into this but I really don't like the X-Men's status after Secret Wars and it seems clearly driven more by suits than creators.
     
  15. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    Yes this totally isn't like when they created the Legacy that wiped out the mutant population or when they made House of M and killed a bunch of mutants or World War Hate when they killed a bunch of mutants no matter what all the mutants we love will probably stick around because X-Men has been garbage for decades because it is impossible to ever have the stakes raised. At least they're doing something different for once by sending them out into space then more of one sided villains just hating on mutants.
     
  16. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I have to admit, while I try not to let myself get paranoid or follow "conspiracy theories," the Terrigen Mist killing and sterilizing Mutants is a bit too on-the-nose for me to ignore o_O.

    I mean, seriously, why do this? The Mutants have just barely recovered from House of M post AvX, and now they're facing extinction again? Not to mention how much X-Men fans and Inhumans fans go at it enough already? And sterilizing them? Really :mad:!?
     
  17. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously guys name one X-Men story in the last ten years that was good, not just ehh like a 5/10 but actually good.
     
  18. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    Does Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men still count?
     
  19. Magmaster12

    Magmaster12 Well-Known Member

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    His run is hence why I said ten years.
     
  20. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Gillen's run had a few decent stories...and, while it kinda got a little off the rails a little, Bendis' ANAD X-Men started strong. But Bendis' stories tend to fizzle out by the end anyways.
     

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