"Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Marvel Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Jul 29, 2014.

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  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey Administrator

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    The latest CG-animated feature from Marvel Animation Studios is here!

    [​IMG]
    Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United
    Studio: Marvel Animation Studios
    Release Date: July 29th, 2014 (Digital Release Only)

    Synopsis: Iron Man and Captain America join forces in a new, original animated adventure, Marvel’s Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United available only on Digital HD, On-Demand and Disney Movies Anywhere. Iron Man and Captain America battle to keep the Red Skull and his triggerman, Taskmaster, from unleashing an army of Hydra Brutes on the world! Enjoy surpassing twists and a special appearance by one of your favorite Marvel Super Heroes in this action packed feature featuring the voices of Adrian Pasdar and Roger Craig reprising their roles as Iron Man and Captain America, and Clancy Brown as the villainous Taskmaster.

    Comments on Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United?

    Related Threads:
    -Iron Man & Hulk: Heroes United Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
     
  2. dr_marvel2040

    dr_marvel2040 Member

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    so the main villans in the movie is Red skull and task master............Great
     
  3. Kumori MC

    Kumori MC Member

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    Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United

    - review by Kumori -

    Well, the latest Marvel DtV outing is...erm, out, so naturally, upon watching it, here are some quick thoughts. Mind that there are spoilers, so enjoy this picture I made for 9gag and skip if you want to watch the movie first.

    http://d3dsacqprgcsqh.cloudfront.net/photo/aZPgYeX_700b.jpg

    The earliest reactions to the first teaser, influenced by the reception of the last movie in the "Iron Man & X Heroes United" universe, by yours truly were in fact extremely harsh and negative. Overall, this particular flick is far from a good one, but when compared to its predecessor, it's miles ahead.

    The very visible negative sides are the choppy animation, which somehow became worse when compare to the movie before it, and most of the script & dialogues. A lot of lines in this movie were groan-worthy (the infamous "Die, heroes!", Taskmaster's choice of "Iron Master" as his new moniker, and Skull's Indiana Jones-esque "CAPTAIIIN!" being just three examples of many), and of course some jokes fall flat at the base.

    What really surprised me was the glimpses of good, perhaps a byproduct of Stephen Wacker taking over Marvel Animation and getting some creative input. Namely, the scenes that were semi-animated, like the intro/outro and Cap under control looked beautiful, and frankly I would not have minded if they did the whole movie as such. Some plot elements worked, like Captain under control - with a not-that-ridiculous costume change - and Taskmaster and Skull screwing each other over. This Skull, while a bit on the bland side, actually seemed like a decent villain, I daresay a bit imposing. But just a bit.

    Another big step-up when compared to the previous movie was the pacing. There were some slower moments between the action, and even the action itself was not as imposing and did not overshadow the plot. Hell, the movie at least had a discernable plot to begin with. The addition of the Hulk, however, seemed tacked on, but the hints of other Avengers was nice. And of course, the Avengers hinted were strictly the movie ones, or the animated show ones considering there was a Falcon silhouette as well. The lack of female characters bugged me, but then again considering what this was a follow-up to, it was not unexpected. What worked was the lack of a post-credit button scene and an extended last scene, where the three heroes are training, Cap in the Iron Patriot armor.

    There were some genuine adult moments in this feature, too. Cap almost pulls a swear word at the Skull, his blood is visibly extracted from him, and each of the main protagonists and antagonists comes close to a brutal death. Considering that the last one was more of a kid-friendly romp than an actual movie with characters and a plot, this was a welcome change.

    Final verdict would be that, as bad as this movie could have been, it surprisingly isn't. The worst it can get is "extremely underwhelming" or "safe, bland entertainment". Kind of like a Shoji Tabuchi live show. If you're morbidly curious, or just wish to blow off some steam for an hour and odd minutes, this is a recommendation. Don't expect too much, or anything at all, really, and you might even like it a bit.

    P. S. I am more than glad that the "Iron Man & X Heroes United" line of films ends with this one. We can expect some quality to roll by soon. Either that or more mediocre products.
     
  4. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator

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    If anything, I think your review was WAY too generous. Your image montage was more entertaining that this steaming pile of CG animation.

    I don't even know where to begin:

    (a) The story was simple, in the worst possible way.
    (b) The dialogue was trite, even more so than the usual steaming pile of pablum that passes for writing from the Loeb regime of Marvel Studios. There was no depth to it, and regurgitated the once-too-often examined "Captain America VS Iron Man" sets of strategy and tactics. Once more Stark comes off as a complete idiot for being a seat-of-his-pants impulse-control challenged hyperactive 12 year old, as if someone brilliant enough to design the armor doesn't have a clue about tactics or contingency planning. We are TOLD - but not shown - that Captain America is a consummate strategist and tactician (although clearly the writers don't get the difference).
    (c) The artwork was bad - much of it looked like it was recycled from the last in this series - which it probably was so that the cheap-ass studio who did the work could recycle their models. It looked like it was designed by a bad
    game design company.
    (d) The animation was badly done, again, on the cheap. The choreography was stilted, the combat didn't really flow to effect, and it reminded me of child button-mashing his way through an arcade game.
    (e) The Red Skull and Taskmaster were written as parodies of themselves.
    (f) An company (or at least a bunch of squads) of HYDRA super-soldiers with CA's skill and acumen, repulsor weapons, and Bane-like bodies (presumably with proportionate strength) would have done a heck of a lot better - these drones were just steriod-enabled typical HYDRA goods, with the repulsor weapons just shrugged off.

    Worst crap from Loeb's regime yet - and that's saying a lot, given that their pinnacle of achievement barely reaches mediocrity.
     
  5. bigdaddy313

    bigdaddy313 Member

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    Hey where the heck have you being?
     
  6. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    If Wacker reads your review he would chastise you for hating on something that was meant for kids. Of course if you then point out to Wacker that Marvel Comics were originally created for and aimed at kids and people of all ages, he would then (wrongly) tell you that is not true and that you never read a Marvel Comic from the 60's (I kid you not).
     
  7. macattack

    macattack I see you!

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    Well, Wacker hasn't made a post or even registered here so I don't think Medinnus has anything to worry about.

    Of course, I've probably jinxed it at this point.:sweat:
     
  8. W.C.Reaf

    W.C.Reaf Active Member

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    If Wacker joins then it'd certainly liven up the discussions around here.

    Not for the better, mind you. But still it'd be fun to watch. ;)
     
  9. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator

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    I've been around. Not much I care about being produced by Marvel Studios recently, and we're in the little death between seasons in any case.

    First of all, what Wacker might say is, at best, problematic - he's not here to say it. Loeb would disagree with me that his regime at Marvel Studios has produced nothing but crap, too - so what?

    Second of all, with all due respect to Wacker, who cares what he says? His job is to make stuff that people - not just target demographics - want to see. The fact of the matter is that comics, movies, and straight-to-video features may be marketed towards kids, but adults are the ones who pay for them; they have long since become too expensive a hobby for kids, unless they either (a) do a heck of a lot of chores, or (b) are spoiled rotten by their parents.

    My eleven year old would rather spend his money on 3DS, Steam, or Minecraft - Marvel Studios lost him when they started writing down to him. The smart money - and DC knows this, and has known this for years - is that if you capture the parents, the kids will have an easier time getting the parents to spend money on "joint" activities - like me taking Anthony to go to Guardians of the Galaxy today. He talked me into Thor 2 a couple of times, plus mjolnir toys, and Thor action figures.

    He'd sell my left arm for a new AEMH animated movie that resolves the Beta Ray Bill/Sif/Surtur/Red Enchantress story, btw...

    So until Wacker calls me out, I'll continue to ignore what he might have said, and state my honest opinion. And in fact, if Wacker joins this board and calls me out, I'll STILL state my honest opinion (Stan Lee hated the fact that myself and his chief writer were both fanatical Captain America partisans, and would regularly tease us about being fans of the one Marvel character of that era he DIDN'T create. /snicker) YMMV.

    It would be interesting; at what point to the mods ban him for being abusive to the other posters, even as a Pro? Of course, I'm taking the stories of his activities on other boards as gospel; I've never read boards where he's been active, and he was always reasonable and professional in my other dealings with him.
     
  10. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    Wacker is the ultimate company man and a master of deflection. The best thing that anyone can do is ignore him since most of the stuff he says is either wrong,insults,or flat out lies. If Wacker was to respond to your comment, he would most likely slam you for using a "fake" name and then insult you for not currently working in the animation business. Heck, when the comic shop that I used to work at went out of business last year he took it upon himself to make light of the situation that I lost my job.

    And just so that we are clear, the situation that I was talking about in my previous post was a response Wacker made to a post of mine over on the CBR forums. He even told me that I have never read any early Marvel Comics. In a nutshell, he was basically telling me that Marvel comics were never aimed at and were never suitable for kids, which is both inaccurate and a lie. THose books were aimed at all ages, which included young kids,tweens,teens,and adults.

    If it is the mods from the CBR forums, he won't get ban. However, they will ban anyone who disagrees with him and calls him out (as well as the mods) on his BS. I first got a warning and then got permanently banned from the CBR forums for (a) calling him out for intentionally trolling and insulting other posters who disagree with him and (b) calling the mods out for being hypocrites when it comes to letting Wacker get away with murder on those forums (I said that they had their heads up Wacker's butt ). And yes, I knew what I said was a bit harsh and would get me banned, but I couldn't just stand buy and let him insult and troll posters who disagreed with him.

    Mod Edit: Please watch your language. This is a family friendly forum.
     
  11. Kumori MC

    Kumori MC Member

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    @spyke

    So, you essentially did nothing.

    Wacker and CBR forums aside, did you really expect any other result from something as significant as an argument on the internet, followed by your insults of the moderators?

    I'm not picking sides here, but years of dwelling on various forums (an accomplishment about as noteworthy as it sounds) have taught me that not lashing out and playing by the rules to your favor actually gets results. For instance:

    1. Saying "Wacker is a [bleep] who just insults other fans, he gets away with murder, you moderators have your heads up in his [bleep], it's a wonder he has not made you his [bleep]es yet, eff the system, aaaaa!" actually puts you at a level lower than Wacker. You just responded to his BS with an argument that looks and sounds like BS.

    2. On the other hand, saying "It is interesting how Wacker can complain about X when he has in fact said and done (quote)Y(/quote) and (quote)Z(/quote) and (quote)M(/quote). Moderators, don't the rules speculate that (quote)Rule#N(/quote)? And I'm sure my friends L, K, J that were touched upon by Wacker would agree with me" does far more. First, you provide evidence of his behavior and present it in a way where it cannot be misinterpreted or manipulated. Then, you utilize the rules when rules demand utilization. And finally, you do it in a calm, collected manner, Not only is this crucial in cementing your argument and giving it validity, it also irritates the party in the wrong, makes them unsure, lowers their inhibitions.

    Does this always work? Not necessarily. But it works a lot better than the "hit em hard, hit em harsh" tactic. And it makes you feel a little more calm.
    @Medinnus

    While I agree with a lot that you stated, I will remind you that what your child likes and dislikes is not even remotely enough of a feedback to what children across the media-viewing world want. Hell, I've seen, took care off and hung out with children who, while being eleven and older, still willingly watched Peppa the Pig. As well as Ultimate Spider-man. And Winx. Treating children's intelligence one way or another really has little to do with this, since we're talking about variety in taste. And yes, children also have a variety in taste. While video-games are a huge part of a child's pass time (albeit far from being a single solitary part of it), there is still interest for animation.

    It also comes down to what you let your kid watch, and even how a child emulates an adult figure. You are no stranger to your love for AEMH or Cap in general, and it shows. Without me trying to sound like a dick here, you might have just slightly, for lack of a better term at the moment, brainwashed him into liking certain things.

    Oh, and hate to break this to you, but Wacker's job is in fact to make money, by any possible means. Not to grant viewer wishes. So while people - me and you, and your kid while we're at it - want to see certain things, his job is to find a compromise that would first make a safe profit to Marvel, then X other things. Demographics play a role there - which you probably know better than I do - and while I personally dislike that particular aspect of working on a product, it has some semblance of a business logic. Why cater to young female audiences, gays, each and every single minority etc when the most safe and secure target demographic is pre-teen boys?

    Again, I agree with most of what you said, the bits regarding Wacker at least, so unlike the commentators on Screenrant - or CBR for that matter - don't take this as a call out for blood. I know you did in the past, for the most meaningless of things, so just a heads-up. ;)

    Mod Note: Here's a heads up - watch the language, please. Post edited.
     
  12. Medinnus

    Medinnus Moderator

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    First of all, I only have the one kid in the target age range, so he is (and his friends, most of whom don't care one way or the other about Marvel animation) what I go by. He's a smart (and smart-ass) kid, and you don't know him or me, so I will let slide your commentary of child-raising.

    How many children have you raised, or discussed comics and animation with? When you have one, then spout all the theories about "brain washing" you like (and no, I don't discount the example set by parents - my minor is in Child Psych, as it turns out, so if you'd like to have a scholarly argument on child-raising and influences, I'm happy to oblige).

    Because the secure target demographic is what they call in the industry "low-hanging fruit"; so long as you don't outright alienate them, why not try to row your target audience outside of those strictures? First thing you learn in real-world business - audience is not a zero-sum game.
     
  13. Kumori MC

    Kumori MC Member

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    1. As I said, you know more about business ventures than I do, so there's nothing on my part that can be added to that front other than what I have presented. However:

    2. Your "my minor is all I got" claim pretty much buries anything else related to this subject, but nevertheless, let's address it.

    No, I am not a parent, but I am an uncle, and have in fact been around a fairly large number of children, be they my close or further relatives, neighbors, children of friends, children of colleagues, you name it. And being an animation buff and a fairly learned individual when it comes to the Ninth art, I do talk to them about these things. Hell, those things alone are why children have this unhealthy obsession with me wherever I go. :D

    For instance, I know of two youngsters who are extremely intelligent and have a well-formed vocabulary for their age (seven and eleven, respectively), and still the older thinks that Code Lyoko characters are real-life people. On the other hand, I have three nephews who are equally interested in Peppa the Pig, the old 90s Conan cartoon, Ninja Turtles, Spongebob, Penguins from Madagascar, Yu-Gi-Oh!...a very wide array of cartoon programming, and of varying aesthetics. Most of the parents I come to know don't normally watch cartoons with their children, and even when they do, they give little input as to what they, for lack of a better term, absolutely must watch, and what they must not. You can pull out a scholarly commentary, it will make little difference, since little of those have to do with actual experiences, outside of the controlled environment, without numbers and statistics.

    This is of course not meant to diminish your scholarly achievements (although that private message you sent me might be an indicator that you'll still think otherwise), just a courteous reminder that you being a parent of a clever child (and if what you claim about him is true, then congratulations, I hope he does well in life and that he'll grow up to be an exceptional individual) and on top of that someone who literally went to school on how people work really means little when it comes to viewing the very wide, very diverse world around you.

    It's kind of like a filmmaker saying to a critic, or even a fan "You never made a movie, so you don't get to tell me if it's good or not". Or a chef telling a customer "You never slaved over the oven cooking for fifty people, you don't get to discuss how my food tastes, just shut up and eat." Trust me, I've run into these types of people - many of which are professionals of Wacker's caliber - and it's one very ugly, very wrong habit to have.
     
  14. spyke

    spyke Active Member

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    I'm quite aware that what I said (a) was wrong (b) wouldn't work or accomplish anything and (c) would get banned (the latter I even stated in my rant post on the CBR forums that got me permanently banned). The thing is "playing the nice polite guy" or "taking the high role" wouldn't have gotten me anywhere since the CBR mods (a) won't take any disciplinary actions towards Wacker since that might jeopardize those exclusive interviews that the CBR site gets from him and (b) would delete my post and Wacker's post in order to cover up his rude,trollish,baiting,and insulting behavior.

    And for the record, I didn't call Wacker a bad insulting name in that CBR post. However, I did call him a troll and said that he was trying to bait people in order to get them banned from that forum. CBR bows down to Wacker, Bleeding Cool doesn't, which MIGHT explain why he no longer posts on the BC forums.
     
  15. James Harvey

    James Harvey Administrator

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    Swing this conversation back on-topic, folks. First and only in-thread warning.
     
  16. Kumori MC

    Kumori MC Member

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    Well then, let me reiterate a few points.

    1. So, you essentially did nothing. The mods did not change their behavior, Wacker did not stop being Wacker, and you were added to the ranks of people fallen under the CBR regime. All the while accomplishing...what? Clearly there was no justice, nor did you gain any moral victory out of it.

    If you at least got a chuckle out of the whole thing, then kudos for at least that. :)

    2. Again, what I proposed might not necessarily work. But then again, you just try harder. Copy/paste what he posted outside of the forum in case of deletion, dates and post numbers intact. Printscreen discussions as they progress, not when they end. Make a personal little cache of everything they do. Hell, even go a step further and open a blog with said info.

    But only now do I see Harvey's message, so I'll end the discussion here. If you feel like something was not said, spyke, hit me up on private messages.
     
  17. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Trickin' N Treatin'

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    I didn't finish the movie, and the motivation to do so just isn't there. It took me about 5 sittings to finish the first Heroes United (God only knows why I did). From what I have seen, I honestly don't think it's as bad (no painfully annoying moments or characterization) but it's as bland as it gets. I probably could have dealt with that if it didn't hurt so much to look at it. That non-existent lip sync animation is like watching some truly terrible claymation.
     
  18. RoyalRubble

    RoyalRubble Atom Ant... Man Staff Member

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    I thought this was slightly better than the previous Heroes United movie, but that's not saying much. This one at least had a decent enough story and a couple of twists along the way - none of them were that surprising or well handled though. The story was predictable and I'm guessing not that much thought was put into it. The character designs and animation once again looked pretty much terrible and the action scenes didn't have any impact, and once again bringing the Hulk into the story (because he's such a popular character) didn't make the movie any better. The Red Skull was a bland villain and the Taskmaster didn't really leave any impression on me this time. He was better handled on Ultimate Spider-Man. Once again the "best" scenes are the ones that are actually animated, like the opening credits or the Captain America brain-washing scene. I was surprised (but not disappointed) there was no after credits scene to indicate a sequel would follow. I was expecting a third Heroes United movie, most likely with Thor as the guest hero. Still, it's all for the better I say, after managing to finish this movie.
     
  19. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Trickin' N Treatin'

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    I'd certainly agree with that.
     
  20. Comicman2014

    Comicman2014 Guest

    I enjoyed the movie, but they made Taskmaster a chump. For example, Taskmaster tries to convinced the supposedly brainwashed Captain America to join him.

    Let ask you this...if you're planning to overthrow your employer, would you convince the employer's brainwashed slave to join you? Once you're brainwashed, I doubt you would betray the leader you are programmed to serve. Isn't Tasky smarter than that? He's lucky Captain American was faking it.

    The big twist with Tasky and his master plan was disappointing to me. It made him come off as Red Skull's pet dog.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014

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