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"Iron Man 3" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, May 3, 2013.

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Rate and Comment - "Iron Man 3"

  1. *****

    14.3%
  2. ****1/2

    32.1%
  3. ****

    21.4%
  4. ***1/2

    17.9%
  5. ***

    3.6%
  6. **1/2

    3.6%
  7. **

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. *

    3.6%
  10. 1/2

    3.6%
  1. James

    James Administrator
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    His role is to generate a villain that would sit well with the masses, rather than the small faction of die-hard fans who will ultimately buy a ticket either way. While I appreciate the disagreement, I think the way you put it does the choice no justice. The choice played on comic book fan expectations to deliver something ultimately quite amusing in its reveal. It worked for me. I think there was a good sense in making that call, though ultimately there are always other routes to, as you put it, modernise classic villains.
     
  2. M.O.D.O.K.

    M.O.D.O.K. Scientist Supreme
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    I was both amused by the scene itself and frustrated over such a huge deviation from the character. It worked within the context of the movie, but Killian felt like such a weak villain with shoddy motivation and a tough act to follow after both of Ben Kingsley's performances.

    What I was referring in the "ignorant, ill-informed" parrt is this snobby, trollish, and pretentious attitude going around people's overall reactions to this movie, where the twist is treated as something brilliant and revolutionary when, again, the first movie delivered the same twist and message with more subtlety; also, the dismissal of the Mandarin as solely a Yellow Peril caricature, ignoring the decades of development to the character since those unfortunate origins. Fraction's take on the character was BEGGING to be brought to the silver screen, and even avoided the "Mandarin" name entirely. I am not the type to whine about changes being made to other media, but I don't feel like other people responding to that criticism with "LOL U MAD RACIST NERDS" is constructive behavior either.
     
  3. suss2it

    suss2it Active Member

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    To be fair, Fraction's Mandarin story only just wrapped up. There's no way the guys behind Iron Man 3 would've had enough time to take his portrayal into account.
     
  4. James

    James Administrator
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    Fair points. :) There was a definite 80s "Superhero film" vibe here where a key comic character was totally redone into something a little more... commercially digestible. Personally, I don't think the reasons were the same as they were then - the fear of the absurdity - more a way to take a key character and use him to further a contemporary pseudo-political structure that plays on the audience's xenophobia and fear of terrorism. To this end, I think it was quite a smart choice and in tandem with the past movies. People fear and expect terrorism to wear a specific face, just as many people expect drug dealers to carry around suitcases of heroin or pimps to all wear purple. So in a sense, one could argue that the use of Mandarin here was in a sense a reaction to the xenophobia, rather than a fear of cries that a more true Mandarin was racially... awkward. That's not this approach was a grand challenge/statement so far as movie depth is concerned, but imo it was in tandem with Iron Man's cinematic outgoings. The downside is, as you say, detrimental to the potential of the comic character's legacy.

    I'd disagree somewhat that the reveal felt of first movie parallels, beyond a key businessman being behind the threat. Iron, the films at least, focus on technology and the potential for its good and its abuse. In such a context I can see why the villain would end up being someone in Stark's circle. I found the villain of Iron Man 2 the least palatable as I didn't really believe he'd have the resources even if he had the mental potential to do what he did.
     
  5. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    According to an Entertainment Weekly interview that was made right around when IM3 came out, the ending was more a decision based on Shane Black wanting to do something different. He knew that if there was an Iron Man 2, Joss Whedon would be the person who'd be able to find a way for Tony to be able to come back, but he also said he didn't really want to just have a "TV show" ending where the hero wins and it ends with him ready for the next big adventure in the next movie. Which I can understand but really... Shane, this IS suppose to be like a TV show. At the very least you're suppose to set things up that lead into a larger picture of a bigger universe and not just think you can play god and do whatever you want in the film. Really with the Dark Knight Rises fine you can have Bruce quit because that's the Nolan Batman verse and if Nolan isn't making more Batman movies it can end however he wants. But everyone knows we're seeing Tony Stark and Iron Man again so why try and pretend like we're not? Since really, if you do a whole "screw you" kind of ending, what's to stop Whedon from putting something like this in Avengers 2?

    Bruce: Stark, you're here? I thought you quit.
    Tony: Oh yeah, that. Yeah that was a lie. I was really out of it after that fight with Killian and needed some time off and a good night's sleep but really, you think I'd ever just give up on the Iron Man suit for good? I also put it on to help protect people not just for myself. Really that whole quitting thing thinking about it didn't even make that much sense so hey let's say we forget about it and focus on this problem okay?

    Seriously I really enjoy the Marvel movies and what they represent but honestly the creative staff needs to work with one another and realize the direction they want to head as a unit and not have someone put things in to hinder that progress for no good reason.
     
  6. sparkykandy

    sparkykandy Member

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    Knows almost nothing about the comics and knew about the twist before I saw the movie, but I did not care for the twist at all. I guess I was mostly disappointed by the fact that the true mastermind behind it all was an EVIL WHITE AMERICAN!!! more than anything else. I know that they didn't want to piss anybody else, but surely there has to be some way to do the Mandarin besides making him some random white guy. Also, Killian's motivation didn't make much sense. So, he became evil because Tony blew him off? Yeah...

    Also disappointed by the fact that War Machine/Iron Patriot barely did anything too. Was so looking forward to seeing him in action too.

    Also, the cute little kid did nothing for me.

    Besides those major gripes, thought that the movie was okay. Liked the stinger at the end though.
     
  7. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    No, he became evil because he had enough power and intelligence to fancy himself a god after years of being stepped on.
     
  8. sparkykandy

    sparkykandy Member

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    ^
    That makes a little more sense. All I remembered was the part where Tony blew him off and how that started his villainy. Still, he came off as not all that interesting of a villain to me.
     
  9. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    I don't think Killian had the best motivation, but from all the IM villains, he was the biggest threat IMO.
     
  10. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    I just went and watched it last night. Overall, I enjoyed it. But I dunno...I just suspect I'll enjoy Thor 2 even more.

    Having now read through this thread, some replies:

    Mild Spoilers from the comic book:


    In the original "Extremis" storyline from the Iron Man comic, one Extremis soldier was more then enough for Tony to be threatened (he actually injured Tony so badly that he had to undergo Extremis himself to recover - and yes, they eventually took away Tony's Extremis powers, because such is the cyclical nature of comic books). And yes, the Extremis soldier from the comic could breath fire as well.


    I'd like some more exploration of the parts in bold - in other words: How so?
     
  11. CyclonatorZ

    CyclonatorZ Active Member

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    In the first film, Obadiah Stane had pretty much identical motives as Tony before the latter's change of heart, and towards the end he pretty much slid into the role Tony occupied at the beginning of the film. The second film had Ivan Vanko, who shares Tony's genius and drinking habit but none of his fame, and Justin Hammer, who is essentially what Tony would be if he failed both engineering and charm school. And in the third film, Aldrich Killian served as a dark mirror to Tony in that he relies on anonymity rather than the spotlight to accomplish his goals.
     
  12. G. Wen

    G. Wen aspiring artist

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    For me, personally, I'm talking about the development of Tony's character. In the first film, he's a brash, egotistical billionaire who gives little thought to the consequences of his actions. By the second film, although he realizes that he should give more thought to his actions, he's still selfish, often pursuing goals for superficial reasons under the guise of benevolence. It wasn't until the Avengers that he had to put himself aside and learn to make true sacrifices. Because of those events, by the third film, he has a broken persona, not just due to PTSD, but due to the fact that his personal psychological make-up has failed him. As such, by the third film he has to build himself from the ground up. In my opinion, unless you take into account all those films, Tony actually comes across as really unlikable. I guess some people find that charming, but I just felt like he was a complete narcissist in the first two movies.
     
  13. The Old Maid

    The Old Maid Voice in the wilderness

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    He did have a motivation. He has "one-itis" for Pepper Potts. For a cussin' good explanation, see the classic The Internet Nice Guy Rears His Ugly Head Once more. (Contains naughty words both sacrilegious and scatological. There are cleaner versions if you search for "Internet Nice Guy"but they're about twice as long.) Basically, the "nice guy" as opposed to a great guy, or a good man, is not actually nice. Whereas the jerk believes a woman owes him sexual favors if he spends enough money on her, the nice guy believe that a woman owes him sexual favors if he spends enough time on her.

    Pepper says that Killian used to "annoy" her (her words) at her old job, before she started working for Tony Stark. Killian has since become Tony Stark, or rather whatever it is that he thinks Pepper sees in Tony Stark. His attitude is reflected in his "embarrassing" desire (Killian's words) to make her his "trophy" (Pepper's words) and in his belief that he could "make" her "perfect" (Killian's words).

    So, yeah, at least five references to this dude's issues with Pepper and wouldn't she be sorry someday! Viewers probably missed it because Killian was more honest about his issues with Tony.
     
    #53 The Old Maid, Aug 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2014
  14. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    Killian was the villain because he was responsible for people blowing up all over the US. Iron Man came after him. The Pepper stuff was plot filler.
     
  15. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Shane Black revealed in an early draft, the main villain was a woman but Marvel corporate got in the way out of concern toys wouldn't sell. But he cites, that kind of issue is gone now.
     
  16. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    Yeah I think finally taking some people out of the company who were so narrow minded on that corporate bull crap helped, and the fact we are getting more female heroes (and with Captain Marvel full on starring movies) means that isn't as much an issue. Sucks it was at the time. And honestly I think that means Maya Hensen played by Rebecca Hall was meant to be the main villain. Since it'd be dealing with a different type of baggage from Tony's old life (an ex girlfriend) and honestly what if they still tried playing it up like Killain was "The Mandarin" for awhile but then had her come in and off him and claim the title instead of her being offed? That would of been unique. And granted Dark Knight Rises sort of already did that kind of twist with Talia but Iron Man 3 still would of had more fun with it and honestly thought maybe would of led to more of a "catfight" between super powered pepper and Maya at the end would of made the climax feel a bit fresher honestly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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