"Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The Entertainment Board' started by Lord Dalek, Jul 14, 2007.

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  1. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Uncreative Hack

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    Have the Adventure of Your Life Keeping Up with the Joneses

    [​IMG]

    Henry Jones Sr.: "You say this has been just another typical day for you huh?"
    Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.:
    "NO. It's been better than most."


    Release Date
    : May 24, 1989
    Studio: Paramount/Lucasfilm LTD
    Director: Steven Spielberg, George Lucas (uncredited)
    Aspect Ratio: 2.35:1 (Panavision)
    Starring: Harrison Ford, Sean Connery, Denholm Elliot, John Rhys-Davies, Alison Doody, Julian Glover

    Plot Summary: Indiana Jones, famed adventurer and archaeologist acquires a diary that holds clues and a map with no names to find the mysterious Holy Grail- which was sent from his father, Dr. Henry Jones, in Italy. Upon hearing from a private collector, Walter Donavan, that the mission for the Holy Grail went astray with the disappearance of his father, Indiana Jones and museum curator Marcus Brody venture to Italy in search of Indy's father. However, upon retrieving Dr. Henry Jones in Nazi territory, the rescue mission turns into a race to find the Holy Grail before the Nazis do- who plan to use it for complete world domination for their super-race. With the diary as a vital key and the map with no names as a guide, Indiana Jones once again finds himself in another death defying adventure of pure excitement.

    COMMENTS?

    Yet another in the continuing series of Steven Spielberg film talkbacks created by yours truly

    THE DALEK/SPIELBERG TALKBACK SERIES:

    Duel
    The Sugarland Express
    Jaws
    Close Encounters of the Third Kind
    1941
    Raiders of the Lost Ark
    E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
    Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
    The Color Purple (soon)
    Empire of the Sun (soon)
    Always (soon)
    Hook (at least to slap something more formal on this... thing)
    Schindler's List (soon)
    Amistad (soon)
    Saving Private Ryan (soon)
    Munich (soon)

    Talkbacks done by others
    Jurassic Park
    The Lost World: Jurassic Park
    A.I. Artificial Intelligence
    Minority Report
    Catch Me if You Can
    War of the Worlds


     
  2. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Steven Sword! Moderator

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    Okay, good. This is something I've always wanted to bring up...

    You know that scene where the Nazis are trying to figure out how to get past the first trap, but they keep losing their heads? And then they force Indy to go next? And he keeps repeating the line "a penetient man shall pass," then suddenly realizes it means to kneel, and he kneels right before the axe whooshes overhead, and he lives?

    Why did it take this many years for anyone to figure out that the solution to avoiding this trap.....WAS TO DUCK???
     
  3. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Uncreative Hack

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    Because they're Nazis, and nazis in IJ flicks are typically stupid.

    You could make the same arguement about how Indy knows not to look into the Ark of the Covenant but noone else does.
     
  4. Swordfish_II

    Swordfish_II New Member

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    I don't know whether I like this or Ark more. They're both excellent films.

    So glad I finally picked up the DVD set last month.
     
  5. Michael24

    Michael24 Moderator Moderator

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    I'm guessing because the people who got their heads chopped off weren't able to yell back, "Duck when you come through here!" before dying. :D

    This is the one Indy movies I have a clear recollection of seeing in the theater. I also saw Temple of Doom and Raiders (according to my parents), but this one I clearly recall seeing, and it was an experience I'll always remember.

    My second favorite, right behind Raiders, and it goes without saying, Harrison Ford and Sean Connery made one of the best team-ups in film history.
     
  6. FightingDreamer

    FightingDreamer Mutant on the Rise

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    Because they're not main characters.:D
     
  7. mookie75

    mookie75 New Member

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    I think we're supposed to assume that no one has found the place in thousands of years (much less encountered the first trap). The two peons that they sent in first were probably superstitious enough to believe that God himself was lopping off heads to keep people away from the Grail. If they believed that, then they probably wouldn't have thought that something as simple as ducking would help. Besides, they didn't have the clues because they didn't have *shifts to a nice German accent* "ze diary in their pocket."

    I think the REAL question is: How did Indy know to roll in order to avoid the second blade that came out? ;)
     
  8. Mynd Hed

    Mynd Hed Holy blue on a popo!

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    Because a penitent man always rolls right after ducking. DUH. (-:
     
  9. ToOn~g@l

    ToOn~g@l Just singin' the blues

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    Ah my second favorite Indiana Jones movie.

    Brilliant acting done by Sean Connery I loved him as Henry Jones, still bossing around his son after all these years. And I liked the beginning showing a young Indiana fighting to get a relic to a museam and then suddenly coming back to his older self still fighting to get that Relic. It was a nicely done touch.
     
  10. mookie75

    mookie75 New Member

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    I should suggest that technique at church sometime. I think it would be much cooler if everyone did a "kneel and roll" for prayer instead of just a "kneel."

    They might need to space out the pews a little more though........


    *THUD* Owww.......... :D
     
  11. HellCat

    HellCat Totally A Stupid Fair Maiden! Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    This and Lost Arc always struck me as the 'true' Indy films. Temple of Doom just feels like they slapped the character into some bad 80's kids movie.
     
  12. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

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    I kind of thought that not looking at the Ark had some symbolic significance, like "no one sees god and lives" or "we walk by faith and not by sight," and just like the Grail, they saw it more as a prize than as what it really was, and Indy was able to figure out the truth because he was able to see more than just a prize.
     
  13. Mcready

    Mcready New Member

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    A question about "Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade".

    Is it me or when Donovan drank the wrong grail as he was aging and dying that he looked like Doc Brown before his eyes turned into powdered raisins?
     
  14. mookie75

    mookie75 New Member

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    Jumping Jehosophat!


    Actually, I think I've noted that similarity as well. :p
     
  15. Mcready

    Mcready New Member

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    I guess you can say that Christopher Lloyd chose Poorly.:p
     
  16. Michael24

    Michael24 Moderator Moderator

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    A kids movie? Mola Ram rips a guy's still-beating heart out of his chest and then drops him into a lava pit while it bursts into flames in his hands? Really, calling Temple of Doom a "kid's movie" has always been a rather lame argument.
     
  17. HellCat

    HellCat Totally A Stupid Fair Maiden! Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    I am the King of Lame.
     
  18. Aldrius

    Aldrius Arrogant Instigator

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    Violence does not a mature film make.

    I thought this movie was pretty cool, like any Indiana Jones movie. I think I liked Raiders better.
     
  19. Michael24

    Michael24 Moderator Moderator

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    Nor does having a kid sidekick a kid movie make. :) I mean, if you're going to call Temple of Doom a kids movie, then you might as well call Raiders a kids movie also, since both were popular with kids and ToD was even a little darker.

    But, this is the thread for The Last Crusade, so back on topic: does anybody know how they did the magic box gag in the prologue? It's all one continuous shot, and I've always wondered. It looks like they were filming in a real train car moving down a track, so did River Phoenix just drop into a box hidden beneath the floor, then a stand-in was waiting outside to run back down the track?
     
  20. James

    James Administrator Moderator

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    Not at all. He never said it WAS a kid's movie, just it felt like one - and I know what he means.

    Despite the nuances of darkness, the film doesn't feel dark to me. It feels "Raiders Lite". Being a kid in the 80s, Raiders was FAR scarier than Temple of Doom. The ark was far more malevolent, the question of God's wrath far more potent, and there were many icky bits (exploding bodies, flesh dissolving bodies, impaled hunters, propeller whipped guards) that made Raiders feel far darker.

    TOD may have icky bits, but it lacks any depth or character motivation which I guess makes it feel kiddy, even if it isn't.

    For me, TOD plays out like a comic sequel to Raiders - the character of Indy is there, but it seems somewhat superficial. It feels like a simplified Indy, a more generic one, and I think a lot of that is to do with the drive of the story. Unlike Raiders and Last Crusade, Indy isn't really pushing the plot along, the plot pushes him. We never seem him rooted in normalcy, so we never get to see him in a natural state, so he ends up very much a simple "adventurer" being pushed along by circumstance. From the start he is reacting to everything - the ball is rarely in his court, so we get to see very little of what Indy is about, more how Indy reacts.

    Add to this Willie Scott has very little motivation aside from screaming and going home, forging the most superficial of sexual chemistry with the lead. The film's saving character grace is Short Round, but in some ways, I guess he just again waters the film down somewhat. I'm not sure how credible the notion is of Indy taking a kid into such dangerous situations, or if there are credible reasons, the movie takes no time to explore them. Using the kid in the film is another 80s staple of the kid focused action genre - which may also attest to HC's comment. Want to see a PG film to kids? Put a kid/cuddily creature in it. It seemed to be a lame 80s rational to sell movies to the merchandise bracket.

    Furthermore, there is no real sense of dramatic urgency to the film - which should be a drive of an Indy movie (and where I believe the most recent one screwed up). You should feel there is a race against time, that each scene is precious in the battle to win whatever artifact he's after. You don't get this in TOD. The artifact is gone before he arrives, and the battle to get the artifact is short before Indy carries it in his satchel for the rest of the film. It doesn't carry any drive to it, even with a dying village.

    It simply doesn't have that dramatic drive the others have, relying on set pieces to generate the energy. I recall Spielberg saying he did little board work for this film as he wasn't really sure where it was going - and I think it shows. It feels like the bare bones of the character called Indiana Jones, an explorer, womanising, hero of the underdog being thrust through the motions - for which he has little control, spending most of the time having to react to situations rather than challenge them as he does in Raiders and Last Crusade.

    It's not a bad film, but I agree with Hellcat, it some how feels kiddish, it feels driven by action pieces than plot or character - a little like the Goonies and so many action flicks of the 80s. It doesn't feel like Indiana Jones as Raiders and Last Crusade does.

    A few gory sequences doesn't make this film feel dark to me, it may not be kiddy, but the lack of depth and "roller coaster" plot just makes it feel generically 80s.

    I recall that's due to a cut from the film where the old guy who tells them about the Staff of Ra informs them of two key points.

    1. Do not touch the ark (which is why Indy and Sallah build makeshift poles to carry the ark without touching - Sallah reminds Indy of the old man's warning as they open the Ark's tomb in another cut scene).

    2. They mustn't look in the ark.

    Now they are crazy cuts as to me, they are really quite important so the film makes sense!
     

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