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In which oldfolks gape aghast at how dark superheroes are now (major recent spoilers)

Discussion in 'Comic Book Culture' started by Shawn Hopkins, May 22, 2010.

  1. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    Update: The new purpose of this thread, at least for me, is the Atrocity Exhibition, sort of a museum of dark stuff in superhero comics. Part one is on page four. Part two is on page five. Check it out.

    So, uh, yeah, as of Spider-Man 631, Spider-Man's decades long struggle to help one of his friends hold onto his humanity is over. He lost.


    So much for a return to more lighthearted comics after the crossover madness. DC pulled a bait and switch, too, their "Brightest Day" Crossover turns out to be "ironically" named, which I'm sure makes Dan Didio giggle. There's a scene in issue two where.


    So think of this thread as museum. A catalog of gory unpleasantness and cheap shock that gets the older geeks' blood boiling. I'm going to post some more examples lately but feel free to add your own, recent ones and new ones that come up, and let us know what you think of them.
     
    #1 Shawn Hopkins, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2010
  2. Anthonynotes

    Anthonynotes Active Member

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    Re: that second spoiler: um... huh?!? I know I'm going to regret asking, but what the heck sort of storyline involved something like *that* happening?!

    Re: the general topic: think the list of nasty comic examples are probably too long to list, though Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, and <insert any Joker/Superboy-Prime appearance here> might do for starters...

    -B.
     
  3. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    I'm sorry, but it's really hard for me to take either of the things you just spoiler-tagged very seriously. Death by Rock Band? He ate him?

    Those sound like the funniest tragedies since it was discovered Mary Jane makes a "SPWAT" sound when struck. Don't spwat your wife, folks.
     
  4. Rusakov

    Rusakov Member

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    Good grief. I sometimes like things that are dark and edgy, but this just pole vaults right over it into flat out Angstville.

    Just what the heck is Marvel/DC trying to do to people?
     
  5. Beat

    Beat Retired

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    Isn't that worse though? You know, NOT taking the idea of death and tragedy seriously in any direction and just being callous for the sake of looking hardcore?
     
  6. Leaping Larry Jojo

    Leaping Larry Jojo Searching for a map

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    Obviously there is an audience for this kind of thing and DC and Marvel have decided that targeting this narrow but loyal audience is better than trying to change their direction. Ah well.
     
  7. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    The Lizard as a character has been messed up for years anyway...

    I think the "Heroic Age" doesn't hit the Spider-Man corner of the Marvel universe until after the upcoming "One Moment In Time" story arc. Having said that, I still expect Marvel to publish "shock and awe" comics on occasion, even during the "Heroic Age". Just because things are more "heroic" doesn't mean the writers won't still go over the top with the villains...(it's not enough to rob banks in a colorful costume, all villains must be evil serial killers nowadays...)
     
  8. ryandcow

    ryandcow Active Member

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    The Rockband one was a lady who was a villain in hiding and she beat them to death with the guitar. (I don't remember who she is) A similar thing happened with Black Manta, except he used a knife to kill the patrons of his fish market. Some of the obvious stuff that makes older people cringe, Sue Dinby's rape and subsequent murder, Max Lord's murder. Anything Black Adam does anything Deathstroke does for "buisness". It's all sorta grotesque, my favorites are Ryan Choi's murder (how they let his girlfriend live, which was somehow worse because he had to lie to her about being in trouble like 10 seconds before the murder, and now she is alone; and Ryan died small so they'll never find his body. It's just sick overall.) and Black Adam's murder of Psycho Pirate. "No more silly faces" *pokes eyes through back of pyscho pirate's head*. Nice.
     
  9. Anthonynotes

    Anthonynotes Active Member

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    Yeah, that bit of Black Adam's came to mind as well. Since nothing says "gritty, gripping realism" like your villain pulling a Moe Howard eye-poke maneuver... but *DEADLY*! :-/

    -B.
     
  10. ryandcow

    ryandcow Active Member

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    Yea I see what Black Adam does as what Superman is afraid of, a lot of the time he just kills people with a single punch and makes them explode basically. Superman is afraid of not being able to control that strength.
     
  11. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    No, he's not. He's must mature and responsible about it and realizes that just because he can poke someone's eyes through his head, he doesn't have to. Black Adam is petty superpowered child by comparison.
     
  12. ryandcow

    ryandcow Active Member

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    I mean Black Adam kills people with a single punch, not supes. A lot of times superman seems to feel like the world is made of paper to him. If he lost control of that, it'd be bad.
     
  13. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    I Byrne-stole the two books mentioned at the top of this thread to check out the context of them.


    I still plan to do a large post, sort of an exhibit with images, of some of the major incidents from recent years. But I'm also going to update this with new stuff as it crops up.

    And so, on to the preview pages of Rise of Arsenal 3, where Arsenal:

     
    #13 Shawn Hopkins, May 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
  14. Anthonynotes

    Anthonynotes Active Member

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    (/me reads the spoiler box, and sees he picked a bad time to be eating a sandwich...)

    *Sigh*... it's almost as if the comic writers seem to be trying their hardest to live up to every negative stereotype about comics fans, including the ones related to misogyny/sexism, being out-of-touch socially or culturally, and the "30-year-old who lives in their parents' basement" bit. Do the writers *know* any women, or actually *show* this stuff to any women while writing it/coming up with ideas? Do the editors *know* any females or any inkling of saying "no" to stuff like that? Do any of them actually read actual books, or view other types of media---TV shows, movies, newspapers, etc.---to *know* that stuff like that wouldn't be remotely greenlit by anyone else in those fields, and would be seen as a *bad thing* by the general public? Or at least the possibility of someone reading this on a bus not having the man or woman next to them thinking they're some sort of weirdo/nutcase/overgrown child (as if comics didn't have enough of a stigma among the average American)?! Maybe that's part of the reason *why* their sales are so marginal that even the X-Men or Batman are easily outsold by the average issue of "Cat Fancy" (or their sales are easily matched by those thick-sized telephone-book manga like "Shonen Jump", or Archie digests)...

    (Breathes) OK, done ranting... for now... :p

    -B.
     
  15. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    I read comics in public all the time. I take Archie digests with me and read them when I eat at restaurants without caring what people think. So for me to say I would be embarrassed to read Rise of Arsenal 3 where people could see me doing it is a big deal, but it's true. What kind of stuff would a person think I was into if they looked over my shoulder and saw a half-naked one-armed man doing that to a woman?
     
  16. ryandcow

    ryandcow Active Member

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    Chersire should probably call in Osiris, Deathstroke, Tatooman, and the evil version of Fire. I think they could hold off the one armed man who is armed with an extension cord.
    @Brainatara- Personally I don't think Identity Crisis should be considered a gore fest or called into the poorly steryotyped dissicussion. It is graphic sure, but at least it is quality material. Meltzer did a great job not falling into the stereotypes you mentioned. (Especially not thinking about other forms of media, especially the books part as Meltzer is a regular book writer.)
     
  17. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    I disagree. Identity Crisis is truly awful and the final reveal makes all of it pointless. I was into it and following the mystery and wondering what the deep motive for it was. Oh wait, she just did it cause she's crazy! No real reason that makes a lick of sense! Well, isn't that a kick in the nuts.
     
  18. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    If anyone wants to know the conclusion of that Arsenal scene:


    I pretty much wanted to jump off a balcony.

    I'm really starting to resent this whole attitude DC editorial is taking. We are in a post-9/11 world! These guys running around in masks and capes is SERIOUS business.

    I don't understand why they are trying to turn DC comics into Watchmen.
    I'm sure sooner or later, someone will find Lian Harper alive in well in some sort of pocket universe cosmic cocoon in stasis and Lian will become the new speedy after current Speedy is raped and given cosmic aids by Mongol. And Speedy dies of cosmic AIDS because there is no way anyone in the DCU can treat cosmic AIDS.
     
  19. ryandcow

    ryandcow Active Member

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    Lol. What about Zatanna?
     
  20. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

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    The current Speedy already has HIV. So it would be like double HIV. And you left out the part where they give Lian a smack problem.

    I don't know if you're serious ryandcow, but there are rules to magic in the DCU that keep Zatanna from being all powerful like that. The main idea is there's no such thing as a free lunch, if you cast a powerful spell there are always consequences somewhere else.

    Here's a review of Rise of Arsenal 3 from someone who calls it the worst comic he's read in 25 years, even worse than the haunted vagina issue of Tarot.

    http://www.savagecritic.com/brian/i-have-read-the-worst-comic-i-have-ever-read/

     
    #20 Shawn Hopkins, May 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2010

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