1. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice

"Identity Crisis" Mini-Series Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Comic Book Culture' started by HighSky, Jun 9, 2004.

  1. Reed Richards

    Reed Richards Mr. Fantastic

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    0
    You think it could be Adam Cray?

    thats sure as heck would account for all the suicide squad stuff thats somewhat pointlessly been in the book (although it all fits if its IS the Atom that was murdered)

    nice catch...
     
  2. Singularity

    Singularity Dullard.

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    1
  3. Nick K.

    Nick K. Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    7,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't want to read it... :sweat:
     
  4. Reirden

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2004
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did... And I wish I hadn't.:sweat:
     
  5. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

    Joined:
    May 2, 2001
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    1
  6. Emerald Archer

    Emerald Archer From the Inner Sanctum

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Method, Motive and Opportunity

    I want to know what the rational for the murders were? I already have known the who for 2 months, I want to know why they did what they did.

    EA
     
  7. Jack Frenzy

    Jack Frenzy Monkey-King-in-Training

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    The motive was:

     
  8. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

    Joined:
    May 2, 2001
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    1
    The reasoning was horrible. Didnt she leave him to begin with? Way too predictable especially the way she gave herself away. This series fell flat at the end if you ask me. So much was left unexplained (like why Owen has superspeed). I give it a "C" overall.
     
  9. Cyber E.

    Cyber E. Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Messages:
    8,464
    Likes Received:
    0
    What... was that. Seven months, we've gone through suspect-to-suspect, murder after murder, theory after theory, and it ends up being... Atom's ex-wife? Who just randomly becomes a psychopath murderer? So, Sue Dibny, Jack Drake, Ronnie Raymond (of course, he is coming back in the pages of Firestorm by March, but still,) and George Harkness had to die because Jean wanted some action?

    ...WHAT?

    I have to admit, the final moments with Bruce and Ralph were somewhat touching... but how this shakes up the DCU, I still haven't to figured out.
     
  10. EJill34

    EJill34 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    0
    A disappointing issue to be sure. It wasn't bad by any means, but I was expecting some crazy twist near the end of the issue. I still wasn't sold on Jean Loring being the killer even after her confession. And who knows--she still might not be. Anyway, this probably isn't over if all this talk of a "Crisis 2" is true.
     
  11. RD!

    RD! Never go see Dr. Acula

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    5,552
    Likes Received:
    0
    Meh. Maybe it's just because I'm new, since IC took away my comic virginity, but Jesus. This was terrible. The first 6 issues were good, 3 was fantastic. But when reading a mystery, all other great qualities go out the window when the ending is bad. Well not true, but this ending blew harder than just about anything.

    Maybe I'm just not used to the whole comic formula. But I figure when you involve major characters, major villians, create a major secret, kill some important side characters which have major impacts which ripple out to the major heroes... you don't you know... have it all done by a nobody for the most illogical of reasons.* However, I'm not new to the general formula of writing, where the only compelling action occurs halfway in the story and after that followed by slow brooding and one suspenseful scene. C'mon, even a decent fight at the end would have atleast saved it.

    *I still don't actually see the reasoning unless it was simply that she was insane, but that is terribly flat and uninspired. However, so is that she wanted him back. Not to mention it's excessive and illogical.

    Nnnh.
     
  12. paulie

    paulie DARN good coffee

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2004
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm "new" to comics as well...I love the great DCAU cartoons, but never read comics before this year, so I wanted to "jump into" the DC universe with this series because of all the hype. All I can say is...

    Is this what superhero comics are like?

    What a frustrating read. I actually thought the story was very well-written as far as the core of it went. There were some very touching moments between characters and their family members, and aside from #4, things moved along well. The mind-wiping plot was VERY interesting, I really wanted to see how that played out between Bats and the rest of the JLA members...but that just makes its non-tie up all the more frustrating.

    What's up with leaving all the loose ends? Do I really have to go following a bunch of other books (that I have no background on) to find out the ramifications? What a pain. I find myself agreeing with the comics cynics out there--but this is the first mini I've read! Did it happen to me that fast?

    I think I'll stick to trades recommended to my by friends. 7 months of following this mini just wasn't worth it.
     
  13. Jack Frenzy

    Jack Frenzy Monkey-King-in-Training

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't feel too discouraged. Identity Crisis was not a typical comic, more like an attempt to explore new directions that ended with mixed results.

    What you may not understand, and a lot of old time comic fans like me forgot, is that big-event multipart crossovers like IC exist for only one purpose: to advertise other books. They're always chock-full of secondary plotlines designed to draw you in to reading other comics.

    In IC, everyone made the mistake of assuming all the subplots were relevant to the mystery, or at least just red herrings. In fact, they had no real significance to the story whatsoever.

    For example:
    Dr. Light regains mind -- to be covered in Teen Titans.
    Luthor's armor -- same as above.
    Captain Boomerang's son -- impetus for upcoming "Rogue War" plotline in Flash.
    Secret of Barry Allen -- same as above.
    Firestorm's death -- impetus for new Firestorm.
    And so on...

    What let a lot of people down about this series is that once you eliminate all the crossover plots, it isn't that much of a mystery.
     
  14. Legionaire

    Legionaire Eat it, Grandpa

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    342
    Likes Received:
    0
    The potential saving grace was something I remembered only partway through the first scene. Jean Loring did in fact go insane once--way back in the original Atom series, ca 1970. She was cured shortly thereafter (in a JLA story I think), but at least the precedent exists.

    Nah...even that isn't enough. It was just a sucky ending to a very good (up to that point) series. Meltzer let us down big time.

    And contrary to what someone else posted, the loose ends were NOT appropriate for this series, even though it was somewhat of a "mega crossover" book. The difference is that Identity Crisis tried to be a true mystery, and as such any potential clues (red herrings or otherwise) should have been dealt with entirely within the book itself.

    Just a huge disappointment, that's all.
     
  15. Eddie G.

    Eddie G. Former Wolf/Writer.

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    8,108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eh, I liked it. It's obvious that Jean's bonkers so we have to keep that in mind. Beyond that I understand Meltzer's reasoning. And I say Meltzer's reasoning because it's hard to understand the reasoning of a psycho. Jean basically didn't like being out of the loop, she didn't like not being part of it anymore. I mean really if you were more or less a part of the JLA, if you knew Batman and Superman by first name, wouldn't it get at you just a little bit no longer being apart of that world? Further more Meltzer touches on a brillant concept of a Superhero's loved one feeling above the law because she is the loved one of a superhero.

    I'll say more about this issue (not all good) but I really don't the ending should be getting the reaction that it's getitng.
     
  16. PaQ

    PaQ Believe it!

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    9,910
    Likes Received:
    0
    With all said and done, I have to say Identity Crisis was a great read. It was pretty suspenseful and the range of suspects was enormous, some of the rumors no matter how outlandish were possiblities and that was cool. The only time the it being monthly hurt between #6 and #7 where the suspects were pretty much narrowed to two, by that time 6 months of speculation had led to the ending being predictable... but I still enjoyed it.

    The way Wally was looking at Batman at the end, and that ending was just a great way to end with Ralph and Sue. :) I'm definitely waiting to see what the ramifications of IC in the DC universe will be, and where we'll see the Atom pop up next, and what exactly Dr. Light has in store for the Teen Titans, and if anything from IC will be contributing to DC Countdown, or the return of Hal in GL: Rebirth. Lots of things to look forward to, great mini-series read. *****
     
  17. Simpler Simon

    Simpler Simon Always in Style

    Joined:
    May 14, 2002
    Messages:
    9,966
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a good point, I've been following Identity Crisis on my own through various message boards and comic news sites, and with the amount of speculation going on there simply wasn't a way Meltzer could reveal an ending that wasn't already covered (or he could, but it'd have to come out of left field from some previously unmentioned villain, which would've been worse). That said, I didn't like how the Atom immediately started accusing Jean...her motive and ultimate end was wrapped up a little too quickly for something that's been plaguing us six issues.

    Does Batman know about the mind wipe? My say is no, although he probably has suspicions for time unaccounted for or something. I wish Meltzer would've wrapped this up instead of leaving it hanging, but then again this series was about opening new story threads and dynamics in the DC universe.

    Question for Atom fans, because this is what confused me: what are the details behind the Ray/Jean divorce? Who left who? I got the impression that Jean was the one who wanted to seperate, but that conflicts with her wanting Ray back, doesn't it?
     
  18. Gillespee

    Gillespee Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    0
    What a let-down.

    Kudos to those out there who so long ago guessed Jean was the killer. Shame on Meltzer for such a crummy motivation. She left him, she could have gotten him back just by asking most likely.

    And what an action packed ending. Or not. Issue 7 sucked rocks if you ask me. Almost nothing is resolved (though this is the nature of comics, I thought IC was comics of a different vein.) Sue's gone, but she was at best a B-level player if you ask me, and Tim's dad is dead as well. I'm not seeing the radical changes to the DC Universe that were promised. If Meltzer had actually dealt with the mind-wiping and it's ramifications, that would have been earth-shattering, but instead the status-quo is more or less maintained. A few minor characters are dead, Jean's in Arkham, Tim's an orphan, and we have a new Captain Boomerang. It almost seems like Meltzer focussed on setting up more storylines for Teen Titans (the armor, Light, etc.) than he did on telling his own story.

    --Gill
    Majorly Dissapointed Fan
     
  19. Singularity

    Singularity Dullard.

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    1
    Eh, the motivation makes more sense once you consider the facts that she's off her knocker.
     
  20. randomguy

    randomguy Came, liked Ike, and left.

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2002
    Messages:
    9,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please don't hit me.

    True... but isn't that a bit weak as justifications go?

    "Well, yeah it's a stretch, but she's crrraaaaazzzzzyyy!" is a pretty lame writer's crutch. Insanity is a perfectly acceptable motivation for comic book villians, but at the very least, it needs to be a bit more well-defined.

    Mind you, I think Jean's actions in this series are a logical extension of her character, but that's only because I'm already familiar with her. Longtime DCU afficiandos know that Jean has always been a few donuts short of a baker's dozen, but that's probably not something most readers of Identity Crisis are aware of. What I'm saying is not that Jean was an illogical choice for the killer, but that Meltzer could have better defined her, and made readers unfamiliar with her general lack of balance more aware of her faults. I mean, most readers didn't know jack about Sue Dibny, but Meltzer made them care. I wish he could have pulled off that same kind of believability with Jean. It just seems a little lazy not to.

    Anyhow, as I said on the TWIC thread, I'm rather unhappy with both this issue and this entire miniseries. I don't mind certain lingering ends, namely Captain Boomerang and Dr. Light, if they get tied up promptly in The Flash and Teen Titans, respectively. But I really don't like seeing this Batman thing left unresolved. Personally, I'm disgusted by the idea of the JLA brainwashing Batman because he (justly) has a moral objection to some questionable actions. I'm disgusted by the idea of Wally and Kyle letting the old-school B-team get away with such an act. And I'm disgusted at the implication that Batman willingly remains ignorant as to the whole thing. I'm sorry, but friends don't brainwash each other and then cover it up. This plot needed resolution, and I'm disappointed that we didn't get it.

    Besides, the whole thing seemed shlocky and emotionally manipulative to me, and that's just not my thing. I'm genuinely happy other people enjoyed it, but I couldn't escape the feeling that the icons of the DC Universe were getting chewed up for very little substantial reason.

    And that's the big reason why I couldn't get into this series. However, there's another small, lingering concern I need to bring up. It's a bit on the controversial side, so... you've been warned.

    A handful of observant writers have flung the term "misogyny" around when referencing Identity Crisis, and I'm inclined to agree. It's a gut feeling I have whenever I'm reading the book, and it makes me deeply uncomfortable. Obviously, the subject's up for debate, but I think it's a legitimate concern, and it's something I take very seriously. Not only because misogyny is just plain wrong, but because this is a medium which is very insular and arguably gender-biased already. Fanning the flames is something we don't need, considering that this is an industry which has marked deficiencies in how it deals with women.

    Think about it... what role do women play in Identity Crisis? They are victims (Sue Dibny), monsters (Jean Loring), or they stand to the sides (Black Canary, Zatanna, and Wonder Woman). Though Zatanna's mindwipe is central to the plot, she doesn't even get a chance to discuss it. Isn't that a little strange? She's the one performing the mindwipe, and she doesn't even get a single line of dialogue addressing it? Meanwhile, Black Canary doesn't get to do much at all... her only notable scene is getting knocked out by Deathstroke. Wonder Woman gets herself a cover, but does very little in comparison to the rest of the cast. These three women (Black Canary, Zatanna, and Diana) are three of the DCU's greatest heroes, every bit the equal of the men around them, yet none of them really gets a chance to do much of anything. Of the two women who receive the most attention in Identity Crisis, one is raped and murdered, and the other commits the murder. I'm not accusing Meltzer of being misogynist, or even writing a purposefully misogynist story, but I think this is something to be considered seriously.

    Just putting it out there in the open.
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum