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How did the early looney tunes/merrie melodies survive nitrate destruction/decay/junking?

Discussion in 'Back To The Inkwell - Classic Cartoons Discussion' started by sasq, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. sasq

    sasq Active Member

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    I have this question in my mind for some time.
     
  2. o0Ampy0o

    o0Ampy0o New Member

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    Probably because they made duplicated copies for distribution and kept upgrading the media.
     
  3. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    My only guess is the cartoons'negatives had been handled with care, and following the events of the 1967 MGM Vault fire, the cartoons are stored at a safe place.

    In the late 1980s, with the advent of digital technology, the negatives are transferred to the computers as digital files for many uses, including back-ups. These digital file originals are cloned for television broadcasts and home video releases.
     
  4. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    The cartoons were taken good care of I assume, and Turner did restore some of the cartoons great with dubbed versions others not so great

    Luckily we have Warner Home Video to do those things now, especially for the pre-1944 cartoons.
     
  5. Steve Burstein

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    The major studios saved most of their sound output, though they often junked the silents(except MGM).To add to that, new copies were made for TV in the 50s.
     
  6. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    AAP made low quality copies for television but the MGM vault fire destroyed many of the original negatives. As a result, there are some lost movies and original titles of cartoons
     
  7. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    And what's ironic is that despite that the 1967 MGM vault fire destroyed the pre-1951 MGM cartoons' original negatives the TV and Laserdisc copies of the classic MGM cartoons look pretty high quality. As if the original negatives do survive in the fire and were never destroyed.
     
  8. Steve Burstein

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    The one major studio who's silent and early talkie output really suffered was 20th Century Fox, due to a 1937 vault fire in NJ where most of the pre-merger "FOX" films were kept. I don't know how the affected the then-Fox distributed TerryToons.
     
  9. speedy fast

    speedy fast Active Member

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    I was surprised to recently read about the MGM fire, because I thought I'd read on Jerry Beck's Cartoon Research a long time ago that the MGM "dubbed versions" were made from the original negatives as opposed to prints (like with the Warner Bros. "dubbed versions").
     
  10. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    Does MGM have dubbed versions, and they keep the original closing cards do they with a disclaimer?
     
  11. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    MGM cartoons' Turner prints are similar to the 1995 dubbed versions of the pre-1948 Looney Tunes cartoons, except that they do not have altered end cards nor the Dubbed disclaimer. Also, the MGM cartoons' Turner prints look much more superior to the pre-1948 Looney Tunes cartoons' Turner prints. Like the 1995 dubbed versions of the pre-1948 Looney Tunes cartoons, the MGM cartoons' Turner prints were created in 1995, for one reason: to restore the quality of the cartoons (via color correction) to make them more marketable for the modern television era.
     
  12. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Although color-correcting the classic cartoons to restore their quality back in the 1990s to make them more marketable improves the quality of them, they don't seem to pass as "restored" prints as of the 21st century, hence explaining why the cartoons have to be restored again to pristine-perfect condition for DVD and Blu-Ray releases.
     
  13. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    I mean the dubbed versions aren't that bad. The only 2 I don't like are Plenty of Money and You and Hop, Skip, and a Chump. I have no problem with the rest. Turner dubbed versions should be present but the aap print should be saved and not obliterated from society completely like those cartoons I mentioned on the other discussion.

    The DVD releases are the best restored ones while the Blu-Ray's colors are a bit too dark but not bad. Some dubbed versions are restored better for DVD, than their TV counterparts, which explains their restored format. Never call a dubbed version, unrestored. Yes, they aren't 21st century standard, but that was the best technology they had in the 90s so it was good for those releases.

    I feel like there are 2 dubbed versions, 1 for TV and 1 for DVD special feature in movie.
     
  14. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    I agree with ya. Plenty of Money and You and Hop, Skip, and a Chump are the worst looking Dubbed versions I've ever seen, to the point that I can't stand seeing the bad colors. Some other awful-looking dubbed versions in the category are like Falling Hare, Hare Tonic, and The Stupid Cupid.

    The best restored prints come from the Golden Collection DVDs, the Academy Awards Animation Collection DVDs and all the Super Stars DVDs except for The Porky Pig and the Sylvester/Hippety Hopper DVD. The only Blu-Ray release to present us decent restored prints is the first Platinum Collection. As of 2012, I don't like how WB using dark colors for the restorations and how they restored the cartoons to death, especially the Blu-Rays. The pre-1948 cartoons aren't affected that much by the change in restoration technique as of 2012, but the post-1948 cartoons look even worse following the change in restoration technique.

    I think the DVD special feature version of the dubbed versions is the master copy, while the TV copies are duplicate copies.
     
  15. Kevin Mo

    Kevin Mo @Bugssponge

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    Falling Hare is pretty bad too, Hare Tonic is ok, never seen stupid cupids.

    Do you know why some EU dubbed, had altered end card?
     
  16. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    I did make a thread about the MGM shorts but it kinda died.

    They made newer transfers for VHS/TV prior to the 1995 ones made by Turner, and some look way better like Love that Pup and Casanova Cat pther than the fact they're uncut. Both were made using 35mm safety film, not the original negatives, but you can't get anything better than that.

    Speaking of Looney Tunes, the dubbed notice is there because they had to make a track for foreign dubs due to the fact WB didn't keep the music/effects track until some shorts in 1949 and started to be more consistent in the 50s.
     
  17. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    Hare Tonic, a cartoon I remember watching during my childhood, is one of the worst-looking dubbed version prints I've ever seen. When I first saw it on Cartoon Network I was instantly put-off by the dominant red colors and distorted color levels in the print, to the point that I even questioned "Did the animators use such bad choice of colors in coloring the cartoon?". The Laserdisc version of this cartoon also has the dominant red hues but its does not look as bad as the dubbed version.
    hare tonic_bad.png

    Luckily this cartoon has been restored to pristine-perfect condition for a DVD release. When CN Southeast Asia re-ran this cartoon in October 2009 they used the more superior DVD-restored print instead of that crappy dubbed version print they used earlier.
     
  18. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    I've seen the 1995 dubbed print of "The Stupid Cupid" and looks pretty bad too. Dark, faded colors, and a dark golden brown color tint. It makes the laserdisc print of the cartoon look a lot better than the Turner print of the cartoon. Luckily this cartoon has been restored to pristine-perfect condition for a DVD release.

    If you see the image comparisons between the two different transfers of "The Stupid Cupid" you'll get it why.
    Top: 1995 dubbed version/Bottom: Laserdisc print
    stupidcupid_bad.png
    stupidcupid_old.png
     
  19. Cool_Cat

    Cool_Cat Active Member

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    There's nothing called "Laserdisc print". Those were made way earlier.
     
  20. A-Cecil

    A-Cecil Member

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    That's for MOST of them. But those video copies with colored borders added (such as Elmer's Pet Rabbit, Fresh Hare, The Wise Quacking Duck, Tweetie Pie, etc.) are new prints known as Laserdisc prints.
     

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