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Gotham "Pilot" Series Premiere Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Sep 22, 2014.

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"Gotham" Series Premiere - Rate and Comment!

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  1. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    The big day has arrived! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on FOX is the series premiere of Gotham, chronicling the rise of James Gordon and the descent of Gotham City into an environment that will produce some of Batman's greatest enemies. We're up a bit earlier than we typically will be for the first week of this exciting event.

    "...However dark and scary the world might be right now, there will be light. There will be light."

    'Like' Gotham on Facebook
    'Follow' Gotham on Twitter

    [​IMG]
    The good. The evil. The beginning.

    Everyone knows the name Commissioner Gordon. He is one of the crime world's greatest foes, a man whose reputation is synonymous with law and order. But what is known of Gordon's story and his rise from rookie detective to Police Commissioner? What did it take to navigate the multiple layers of corruption that secretly ruled Gotham City, the spawning ground of the world's most iconic villains? And what circumstances created them – the larger-than-life personas who would become Catwoman, The Penguin, The Riddler, Two-Face and The Joker?

    GOTHAM is an origin story of the great DC Comics Super-Villains and vigilantes, revealing an entirely new chapter that has never been told. From executive producer/writer Bruno Heller ("The Mentalist," "Rome"), GOTHAM follows one cop's rise through a dangerously corrupt city teetering between good and evil, and chronicles the birth of one of the most popular super heroes of our time.

    Growing up in Gotham City's surrounding suburbs, JAMES GORDON (Ben McKenzie,"Southland," "The O.C.") romanticized the city as a glamorous and exciting metropolis where his late father once served as a successful district attorney. Now, two weeks into his new job as a Gotham City detective and engaged to his beloved fiancee, BARBARA KEAN (Erin Richards, "Open Grave," "Breaking In"), Gordon is living his dream – even as he hopes to restore the city back to the pure version he remembers it was as a kid.

    Brave, honest and ready to prove himself, the newly-minted detective is partnered with the brash, but shrewd police legend HARVEY BULLOCK (Donal Logue, "Sons of Anarchy," "Terriers," "Vikings," "Copper"), as the two stumble upon the city's highest-profile case ever: the murder of local billionaires Thomas and Martha Wayne. At the scene of the crime, Gordon meets the sole survivor: the Waynes' hauntingly intense 12-year-old son, BRUCE (David Mazouz, "Touch"), toward whom the young detective feels an inexplicable kinship. Moved by the boy's profound loss, Gordon vows to catch the killer.

    As he navigates the often-underhanded politics of Gotham's criminal justice system, Gordon will confront imposing gang boss FISH MOONEY (Jada Pinkett Smith, "The Matrix" franchise, "HawthoRNe"), mob kingpin CARMINE FALCONE (John Doman, "The Wire") and many of the characters who will become some of fiction's most renowned, enduring villains, including a teenaged SELINA KYLE/the future CATWOMAN (acting newcomer Camren Bicondova), OSWALD COBBLEPOT/THE PENGUIN (Robin Lord Taylor, "The Walking Dead") and EDWARD NYGMA/the future RIDDLER (newcomer Cory Michael Smith).

    The crime drama will follow Gordon's turbulent and singular rise through the Gotham City police department, led by Police Captain SARAH ESSEN (Zabryna Guevara, "Burn Notice"), as he goes head-to-head with major crimes unit detectives RENEE MONTOYA (Victoria Cartagena, "The Bedford Diaries") and CRISPUS ALLEN (Andrew Stewart Jones, "Sex & the City"). It also will focus on the unlikely friendship Gordon forms with the young heir to the Wayne fortune, who is being raised by his unflappable butler, ALFRED PENNYWORTH (Sean Pertwee, "Camelot," "Elementary"). It is a friendship that will last them all of their lives, playing a crucial role in helping the young boy eventually become the crusader he's destined to be.


    Tonight's episode...

    "Pilot" - Series Premiere
    Monday, September 22, 2014 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on FOX
    THE ORIGIN STORIES BEGIN! ON THE ALL-NEW SERIES PREMIERE OF “GOTHAM†MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, ON FOX

    GOTHAM traces the rise of the great DC Comics Super-Villains and vigilantes, revealing an entirely new chapter that has never been told. From executive producer/writer Bruno Heller ("The Mentalist," "Rome") and starring Ben McKenzie ("Southland," "The O.C."), Jada Pinkett Smith ("Hawthorne," "Collateral") and Donal Logue ("Vikings," "Sons of Anarchy"), GOTHAM follows one cop, destined for greatness, as he navigates a dangerously corrupt city teetering between good and evil, and chronicles the birth of one of the most popular super heroes of our time

    FOX.com/Gotham

    "There is a war coming. A terrible war. There will be chaos, rivers of blood in the streets. I know it."
     
  2. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    Very good. All the reviews I've heard and read didn't do it justice.
     
  3. Wonderwall

    Wonderwall Moderator
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    Was pretty fun. I think the only thing that confused me was why Ivy has a different name.
     
  4. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    Episode #1

    I do believe the murder of the Waynes was a planned assassination in this continuity. Maybe Thomas and Martha were in deep in something they didn't realize was going to turn shady? I hope we get plenty of flashbacks to develop them as characters, we might as well. That is some damned nice material for a series mystery arc.

    Maybe this Jim Gordon will wind up similar to the Erica Durance Lois Lane from Smallville in that he is a very proactive force in helping Bruce become Batman? That would be an interesting turn on the characters' relationship.

    The lighting is quite specific in this series. I like that. That first wide shot of the precinct looked like it harkened back to the Joel Schumacher films a little in the lighting and coloring.

    I do wish this had been a two hour pilot. As much as I like the plot I love it when the actors really go at it, so having more time for that would have been nice. Robin Lord Taylor as Oswald Cobblepot is a real gem, fulfilling a really nice role as a seedy little ass.

    Falcone has a few layers to his character I was not expecting. Perhaps this is based on comic storylines. The only other Falcone I know of is the one from Batman Begins.

    I do like Bullock here. At first I took his character to be truly pragmatic only to be reformed by Gordon throughout the series. At the end of the day he is merely hiding his fear behind pragmatism. He's lost his courage and become a beaten dog. A shame.

    This should be quite a series. Let's hope it is.
     
  5. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    I think I was thinking this too, but if that's the case, then why are they doing that? Doesn't making the murder of Bruce Wayne's parents "bigger" than it's "supposed" to be take away from the overall point of Batman or why he would at least become Batman? Instead of being a random crime, there is some kind of cover up/conspiracy here? If there is a cover up/conspiracy, then there is obviously a motive/reason/agenda to kill the Waynes. If there is all that, then why not just kill Bruce Wayne too? Ultimately we all KNOW the crime isn't going to be solved. If any "progress" is going to be made in regards to solving it, we all know it's going to be for nothing. Can they really do anything with this supposed set up regarding this situation? Making any legitimate progress that pays off or flat out solving the crime (murderer and or conspiracy/cover up), more importantly has us potentially asking "Sooooo, why would he become Batman then?".

    For the sake of argument lets say that the Thomas and Martha Wayne were assassinated because of a motive/reason/agenda and not simply a random act. Let's also say the crime isn't solved and no progress is made. When Bruce Wayne becomes Batman, wouldn't it be "easier" for him to find out who killed or was responsible for his parents' death over a killer who simply committed a random act and got away with it?
     
  6. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so Bruce is 12. Selina's a teenager. Cobblepot's a nebbish, a far cry from previous characterizations. The same outside-the-box thinking that fuels Arrow and Flash is being used here, suggesting that fans check their comics history at the door. Hard to do when there's so much Bat-history, especially in the last 25 years. Bullock was established in the books in the 80's. Montoya in the 90's, and Allen just before the 00's, IIRC. Placing them all with a young, pre-commissioner Gordon seems wrong, but the mentality is that the producers are using characters that fans will recognize, hoping to avoid the same pitfalls that doomed the last Bat-cartoon.

    Ivy Pepper is supposed to be Pam "Poison Ivy" Isley?! I'm so sorry, but that doesn't work, either.
     
  7. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    Bruce being twelve here was a good idea. It make it easier for him to process and in turn have a nastier reaction to the politics surrounding his parents' death. It also means we could have a Batman by the time he is eighteen in Season Six. Given how strong a reaction he had in Pilot it wouldn't surprise me if he dropped out of his public life and dedicated every fiber of his being to training. If he's going to dress up like a lunatic and fight crime as an adult he isn't going to wait that long to start preparing, after all.

    The great thing about the set-up of the series and the title Gotham is that the series could easily re-define itself every few year and last for years. Fifteen or twenty, even.
     
  8. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    According to initial estimates from TV by the Numbers, the series debut of Gotham pulled in 8 million viewers. Thoughts on the viewer tally for the initial outing?
     
  9. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    We knew it was going to do well because it had the highest buzz of any new show. The question is if it can keep that up.
     
  10. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    8 million? Opposite Big Bang Theory, Voice, and Dancing With the Stars? Impressive, but the problem I have is that it's TV-14, airing at 8 (ET), and that could raise a few red flags from the moral zealots of the PTC and their ilk.
     
  11. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    And opposite Monday Night Football.
     
  12. CyclonatorZ

    CyclonatorZ Active Member

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    I believe I said this in the pre-release topic, but am I the only one here bothered by the entire premise of this show? I thought it was a pretty established element of Batman's universe that the Bat brought out the freaks, not the other way around. Having Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman, etc, being super criminals while Bruce is just a child just doesn't sit right with me. And as someone on another site pointed out, it also means most of Batman's rogues gallery will be middle aged by the time he puts on the cowl for the first time.
     
  13. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    Penguin and Riddler looked to be in their mid-20s. Bruce is 12. Catwoman and Poison Ivy are about the same age.

    There are plenty of rogues left anyway. Maybe we'll see Dent as a Gotham University Law School interning at the DA office. The Ventriloquist working in a hobby shop. Mr. Zsasz' first kill. Who knows?
     
  14. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    I don't see why any of this is an issue. The idea is to create engaging and thoughtful television. Besides, Selina Kyle is maybe two or three years older than Bruce. That hardly means she'll be a 'super criminal'. Penguin looks young enough now he probably won't look much different by the time Bruce is Batman. Nygma looks like he is in the same age bracket as Penguin, too.

    If Batman can miraculously not be turned into a puddle of intestines while fighting superhuman maniacs I don't see why he can't begin his career of dressing up like an idiot in the midst of an era ruled by equally stupid-dressing crackerjacks.

    This even assumes any of the villains will actually have 'costumes'. The idea is to kill, rob, and wrong, not stick out like a sore thumb while trying to avoid arrest.
     
  15. The Old Maid

    The Old Maid Voice in the wilderness

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    Here's a classic tribute to James Gordon from poster Joker2967 that seems apropos for this series.

    Yeah, the schedule for the series won't make it easy, and there's a risk in introducing supervillains before they begin the cosplay or, for that, matter, before they become supervillains. But those of us who remember the Smallville version of Lex Luthor and watched him anchor a fluffier show remember that it can be done. Takes work, though. We'll see.
     
  16. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

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    I think you're overestimating the amount of power they think the fans wield. Of the 8 million people who watched the premier, I can't imagine a large percentage knew much if anything about Renee Montoya, Crispus Allen, or Harvey Bullock, much less that they're supposedly the wrong age in the timeline. Most people simply don't read comic books.

    The others mentioned are all people who have broad exposure and appeal to a mass audience to begin with. Everyone and their grandma knows Catwoman or the Penguin or the Riddler or Poison Ivy.
     
  17. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I don't think the costumes for Batman or his Rogues gallery make them look stupid, though I doubt they'll ever show up in the show even if it does get more seasons. At best, with each villain likely advancing to their eventual costumed identities before Bruce becomes Batman, they'll start looking more and more like their comic counterparts. If they do ever get costumes, it'll likely be by the very end of the show, just like Bruce, though that's likely dependent on the series keeping up its ratings and getting more seasons.
     
  18. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for reiterating one of my points, Rory. This, as I said, is the same outside-the-box creative strategy that worked so well for Arrow the last 2 years. One wonders if they'll do the same with Constantine when he debuts next month.
     
  19. Viper

    Viper I'll Never Forget You Two!

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    I thought it was a pretty good way to begin the series. It was still so traumatic when 8-year-old Bruce Wayne saw his own parents get killed right in front of him. I felt the guy playing a young Oswald Cobblepot a.k.a. The Penguin did a great job. The action was pretty well done too. I can't wait for the next episode!:D
     
  20. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    I finally caught the pilot and it's pretty good for the most part. I thought it could have been better but I chalk up any shortcoming to the usual problems that plague a pilot episode. There's a lot of exposition and character introduction to get out of the way and usually that's handled in a really sloppy manner and there was lots of that here. However I really like the actors they chose for Gordon and Bullock and the Penguin has potential to be the breakout character for the series. Outside of that nothing really grabbed me though I thought the Fish Mooney character was amusing in a campy way. I have no problem with the timeline being messed around with here in order to fit in characters (as a fan of the X-Men movies you have to accept that when they make adaptations they might mess around with the timeline a little) nor do I mind little changes made to the source material for the sake of storytelling (again I don't mind when creators do their own take on a property and make changes as they usually end up adding an interesting wrinkle or two). I think I'll get a better sense of the series once the second episode gets here and they've moved passed the problems that hopefully just bogged down the first episode and that's it.
     

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