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General Disney Company Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Disney/Pixar Forum' started by Tommy Lawson, Jun 1, 2004.

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  1. Tommy Lawson

    Tommy Lawson Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

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    This thread is for general discussion of the current status of the Walt Disney company and the practices of its management.

    Criticism and/or support of the current management, including Michael Eisner, is allowed in this thread. However, do not bring discussions about management into a non-relevant post outside this thread. This practice is referred to at Toon Zone as "hijacking threads." Such behavior shall result in warnings, and continued offenses may ultimately result in a ban from the Toon Zone forums. We encourage discussion about Disney and its management here at the forums, but do not bring up discussions about it where it doesn't belong.
     
  2. shogunthethird

    shogunthethird Monk-daddy

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    you know what would stop all this eisner-bashing once and for all?

    GET RID OF THE BUM!

    seriously, quit complaining and do something constructive even if it's just writing a letter of support to Roy and Stan's website! I know I'm one of his most venomous critics but I've reached the point where I stopped cursing the darkness and instead turned on the lights
     
  3. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    Be Careful what you wish for .. for it might not be good..

    That's true shogun, but the thing is this.. There has been some rumblings and rumors flying around the financial markets (Most notably Yahoo Finance, that states that if They did get rid of Michael Eisner,

    1. Who would they get to replace him. and mroe importantly
    2. Would the person replacing Eisner be really better here?

    Case in Point.. Here is one article that says that Viacom's Former Chief Exec, Mel Karmazin, could end up filling Eisner's Evil shoes.. and we all know what happened with Viacom (most notably the famed "Wardrobe Malfunction" at the Superbowl) that literally landed Viacom and CBS in hot soup.

    but then again Karmazin's been looking for a Job since he up and quit Viacome early last week. and maybe the guy isn't half bad, but then again, which Evil do you want/ The one where Eisner takes Disney down the Road to destruction? or the Potential road that ends up the same place with Karmazin?

    Actually this is really not a confusing question, as it seems that the answer ends up the same. but still the Disney board is eyeing Karmazin, as a potential candidate..(who could step in and replace Eisner, until someone from the Gold and Roy Disney Camp could step in with a little more business sense and run the place right.. (in the meantime Disney would still continue to falter as bad decisions are made with no end in sight...

    so be careful what you wish for there shogun, cause sooner or later it may come back to haunt us all.

    :coyote:
     
  4. Wolfcruiser

    Wolfcruiser Don Karnage,Disney's coolest!

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    Yeah,I'm only appreciating the goodness that Disney has given us ALL these years. Who cares about the bad? Every company has their moments,and I'm sure Pixar will one day,too. But heck,Disney owns them all and seeing some of their accomplishments over the years and how the company's evolved is truly wonderous.

    So,I'm sick of all the Eisner-bashing. I don't care about him. I'm only seeing the good in everything Disney has given us.

    Heh,just think,if it weren't for the awesomeness known as Brother Bear,I wouldn't be posting here. Too bad this film wasn't the last 2-D one so Disney 2-D would've gone out with a bang. But,eh,Home on the Range,sadly,came out afterwards. The characters in HoTR were all very well-developed,but,because American audiences don't eat toonage up anymore,it went bust. Eh,what can you do?
     
  5. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    That's Easy Wolf.. I got "Two Pounds of Maggie" sitting in My Refrigerator, I'm thinking of Making Hamburgers, Western style..:D

    :coyote:
     
  6. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    Did anyone Catch this story? (Oh great...)

    Alright it's time for a news update of Sorts from the Company.. and apparently Disney is going at it again with their International Television Section getting ready to in the Next 12 months to open TV channels for Disney in of all Places India..(is there a theme I should be looking at here? First the Animation Studios Move there, now they get TV channels???):confused:

    But you can read about it right here.

    Thoughts On this?

    :coyote:
     
  7. CookieS

    CookieS Active Member

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    Its a no brainer. India produces more films per year than any other country. Of course their population is media-hungry. Disney is just reaching out to markets that are willing to buy. Labor is cheaper, demand is higher. What's the big deal?
     
  8. BigKPFan76

    BigKPFan76 It's Kimstyle, Yo!

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    Well Disney under Eisner may have given us a lot, but what good is that when the threat of him taking it away from us (or in many cases, already HAS taken away from us......2D animation, Florida studios) is hanging over our heads? Sure, he gave us KP and others..........but if hes going to stop them from being produced, what is the sense in that??!! If he really wants to get on our good side, he better ought to start listening to the fans instead of his cash counters. All he is doing is alienating the fan base.........and trust me, that doesnt equal money. Cause I can tell you, after KP ends......unless by some miraculous reason it stays on........I WILL NOT be buying any more KP merchandise. Period, no if's, and's, or but's about it. Merchandise doesnt sell on an endless string of 65 reruns.

    Eisner's policies are the ultimate scenario of dangling the carrot in front of our noses, only to pull it away. To me........thats the ultimate insult. Especially when the fans are hungry for more. So to me it doesnt matter what he brought us..........it matters whether or not its kept.
     
  9. shogunthethird

    shogunthethird Monk-daddy

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    Re: eisner debate

    most of us would like to focus on the good things that disney has done, believe me I'd like nothing better than to stop ranting about Eisner and his board of yes-men, and I'm not the first person to express that particular opinion, that sort of thing has been going on for years, where there's freedom of speech there's people expressing their viewpoints, it's a fact of life, and in some cases people have died for that right
     
  10. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    Indeed Shogun, that's what we really need to do here.. Focus on how we can regain the magic that was once Disney. and Not worry about the guy running it..

    besides There is a saying a lot of times I emphasize and a lot of times it goes unheaded..

    Listen to what the fans, and the people would like to see. not what you think we would like to see. Ignore us, and we go looking elsewhere for fun..

    After all Disney was made for us, by us, and we control what is on, not what you the CEO thinks is best.. Dollar value means nothing Fan Value Means a Lot. (Especially if these are the same fans who might hate you from time to time, Please don't give them just the lip service they would like to hear, but rather what they really want.. After all the guy you replaced did the right thing, and look what it go him.. remembered when he died.. He's not forgotten, his Legacy lives on in his name.. and yet.. when the time comes down and the sand runs out.. will you be remembered Just the same? or slightly different.. the choice is yours and yours alone. Heed the words, or ignore them and be alone.

    Nuff Said..

    Now on to the lighter side...

    Yes Let's get back to the reality here, and not worry about Profit and Loss margins, let's get to what we the fans would like to hear. Namely the Laughter and the fun that is the Name Disney. Namely that quality is to return, and not worry about how much money anyone spends.. (Frankly what ever happens is fine by me..)

    :coyote:
     
  11. Uncle Beaglebub

    Uncle Beaglebub Black Jack

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    What is it with getting rid of 2-D animation anyway? Don't people like it anymore or what? I recently saw Finding Nemo and was of course blown away by the 3-D animation. Most of the underwater nature scenes were so realistic, I had to remind myself that it was a cartoon.

    But that's not the point though, I still love 2-D animation! Always have, always will. To think they would never make a masterpiece like Fantasia again, that burns my :evil: :evil: :evil: . It's an art form! When photography equipment was mass marketed, it didn't spell the doom of paintings. Gee, why paint a picture if you can take a picture of it? A new form of expression doesn't have to end the previous ones.

    There has to be a desire to see 2-D cartoons yet, right? I'm sure somebody besides myself would miss them. I can't be getting old already, can I? What, is Disney going to focus it's entertainment completely on kids and young adults now? It's bad enough that The Disney Channel only targets the kid demographic. Shame! Disney is for kids age 1 to 99!
     
  12. shogunthethird

    shogunthethird Monk-daddy

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    um....if 2D animation is dead, then why are all of the really popular shows done in either hand-drawn animation or computer graphics that are trying to approximate hand-drawn animation?
     
  13. RZetlin

    RZetlin Active Member

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    Right from the horse's mouth:

    Eisner painted a grim future for traditional, hand-drawn animated fare, known as two dimensional, or 2-D, saying Disney would focus by itself and with others on computer animation, or 3-D.

    "The 2-D business is coming to an end, just like black and white came to an end," Eisner said.
     
  14. RayChuang

    RayChuang Active Member

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    I think what Eisner is saying is that pure hand-drawn 2-D animation is becoming less important.

    In a way, he has a point: it's essentially a case of computers creating what looks like 2-D animation becoming widespread in use. And this is not just happening in the USA--the trend actually accelerated from Japan as anime companies there were forced to invest a lot in computer hardware due to the fact FujiFilm in 1998 was phasing out the manufacture of plastic celluloid sheets used for hand-drawn animation.

    Take for example the recent direct-to-video release Lion King 1-1/2, a major success in the USA with some six million copies sold on DVD! :eek: What's interesting is that while it looks like 2-D animation most of the work was done on computer workstations.

    In Europe, animation studios have also heavily invested in computer hardware, too. Winx Club (which is now showing on RAI Due in Italy and will be on FoxBox later this month) is more or less mostly computer-generated, and SIP Animation will be heavily using computers to animate W.i.t.c.h. (which will premiere in Europe this fall and in the USA in February 2005).

    With the cost of high-powered computer hardware going down rapidly, this trend will just accelerate over the next few years.

    Shogunthethird, a lot of new computer-generated animation "looks" 2-D due to less computing power necessary to generate such animation. True 3-D looking animation like what Pixar and Dreamworks/PDI creates require enormous amounts of computing power; look at how long it takes to do a film like Finding Nemo. You can actually build a system using a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64 FX CPU and the appropriate software that can create nice-looking 2-D quality animation for under US$5,000 nowadays easily.
     
    #14 RayChuang, Jun 3, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2004
  15. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    Children's Place is Eyeing The Disney stores...

    Alright after something like a Year after Disney had announced to Close off a Number of the Disney stores out there, plus the fact that they were looking for someone to buy the stores.. a Potential Buyer has decided to come forward and take a look at an offer.

    Who is it you might ask? Well it's Children's Place (that's right Children's Place) is eyeing the now Closed Disney Stores and is THinking about bringing it under it's wing..

    You can read the related Articles either Here or Here.

    so at least we have some solace that Disneyana fans won't have to worry that much..

    :coyote:
     
  16. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    Does this make any sense? (or are we all glued to the headlights?)

    That's true about 2D but in terms of Hand Drawn items..(Computer aided Animation is still alive and well.)

    and this comes from a guy who brushed away a question about whether Mel Karmazin, who is stepping down as president of Viacom Inc. could 'fit in' at Disney.

    "If he's a 42-long, extra long, possibly," Eisner told his questioner, quickly adding, "I think we should move on."

    (Does this statement even make sense here? Apparently Not)..




    As it seems he's just skirting the issue and could end up having Karmazin coming into Disney and possibly taking over his job.



    (Some people have hinted that Karmazin could in fact be the reason why Eisner Balked at the Dealings with Comcast.)

    So you could say he's (Mr. Eisner) "Running Scared" (like Thumper the Rabbit) or he's got the "Headlight Fixation" (Like Bambi the deer.)

    Go figure :rolleyes:

    :coyote:
     
  17. shogunthethird

    shogunthethird Monk-daddy

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    I hate to play Devil's advocate but from a certain point of view Eisner may be right, I can see animation being primarily switched to computers but mainly from a production standpoint, instead of photographing cels, they could take the hand-drawn images and scan them into computers, color them and then use that as the basis for the animation process, I'm sure they do that over in Japan but I can't see why the process wouldn't work here as well if it isn't already, there's a difference between death and evolution, and really if this is what he means by traditional hands-on animation being dead I can almost agree with that, considering how technically it's still hand-drawn but animated by computers
     
  18. BigKPFan76

    BigKPFan76 It's Kimstyle, Yo!

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    I'm not saying I hate 3D animation, but I dont think it should be an industry exclusive. There are still people out there, like me, who like traditional, hand drawn animation. 2D. And to going totally 3d, I say.............NO FREAKING WAY!! You can have all the 3D you want, but I take my 2D anyday of the week. And if it does go all 3D, then I'm going to stop watching it, period. Variety is the spice of life, ya know?

    Eisner, you're still a squeeb, and you always will be!!:mad: a la Gil.
     
  19. Uncle Beaglebub

    Uncle Beaglebub Black Jack

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    OK, I'm confused. When I hear someone say "2-D", I think of Mickey Mouse cartoons drawn by hand. When someone says "3-D", I think of Finding Nemo, a toon made by computer experts.

    If the realm of 2-D also includes drawing cartoons by hand, and then using a computer to aid the animation process then I have no arguments. That means traditional cartoons are alive and well.

    But what is going on at Disney? What is Eisner referring to? Does he mean that the day of no computer involvement in creating 2-D toons is over? If what is going on at WDC is that benign, why are Disney fans ready to crucify Eisner for suggesting something like that? A simple improvement in the process of creating 2-D toons shouldn't cause such commotion.

    What I thought was that WDC planned on dismantling all traces of 2D toons. I thought it meant no more hand drawn work, and all keystrokes...

    Forgive me, but I am a bear of little brain.
     
  20. tucsoncoyote

    tucsoncoyote Time to get my "Game face" on

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    well... you're partially right..

    Not a problem there Uncle B, but there are really 3 levels of animation here we have to look at ..

    Indeed there are the two that are mentioned (the 2D hand Drawn art, and the 3D CGI), but there is also a third part here.. namely 2D computer Assisted animation as well.. (and it's really a hybrid of the two..)

    2D Computer Assistied Animation or 2D-CAA, is where you can take any drawing (or groups of (hand drawn art) and scan them into a computer then add a back ground and add all the nice wonderful effects (and yes there are companies out there that do use 2D-CAA, and while Disney itself doesn't use 2D-CAA, other outsourced companies do..(and this applies to shows Like The Proud Family, Dave the Barbarian, and of course Kim Possible). (How in the world do you get some of those Cool effects in Kim Possible? Answer.. 2D-CAA..)

    but yes Disney is trying to eliminate all of the 2D Hand Drawn media, but is pobably still going to stick with the 2D-CAA stuff for a little longer before removing that as well and moving on to 3D (of course Disney itself is just letting the outsourced companies produce the stuff, they just distrubute it..)

    so in essence does Disney have sole control over 2D animation? Nope not since they are letting outsourced copanies do it.. but they are trying to eventually even get away from that.. and go directly into 3D CGI..

    but Like a few of the True Disney "Diehard Fans" say, never really count out 2D animation (Be it hand Drawn or CAA), as it seems that there still is life in shows that still use even CAA (Computer Aided Animation).

    so I really think Disney shouldn't burn their bridges until they are absolutely sure of it..(after all what happens if the Computers Crash and you can't produce even a 3D model or a 2D CAA? well then, it's back to 2D hand drawn art (and that in its own right is slowly becoming a dying art form but give it time.. cause if and when such a disaster of a computer crash occurs, it would still be nice to have some artists around to handle the slack..
    ;)

    :coyote:
     
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