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Fleischer Studios/Famous Studios "Superman" Cartoons Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Back To The Inkwell - Classic Cartoons Discussion' started by James Harvey, Nov 9, 2006.

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Rate and Comment on these classic cartoons!

  1. *****

    55.0%
  2. ****1/2

    30.0%
  3. ****

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  4. ***1/2

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  5. ***

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  6. **1/2

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  8. *1/2

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  9. *

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  10. 1/2

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  1. Stu

    Stu Marvel Animation Age Webmaster
    Staff Member Administrator

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    They've been digitially remastered and spread across the Superman: The Movie and Superman II DVDs that were released late last year. Given how infinatly superior the remastered versions are, I'd spring for them.
     
  2. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Uncreative Hack

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    Max Fleischer occasionally made "two-reelers", shorts that lasted about half an hour and could be considered genuine minimovies.

    None of these two-reelers are Superman shorts regrettably.
     
  3. Optimus81

    Optimus81 Member

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    I just had a question for you guys:

    The BRILLIANT Max Fleischer Superman shorts from the 40s have been released in various forms over the years. I want to buy them on DVD but I want to know which edition INCLUDES the Paramount logo in the beginning, because some DVDs have cut it out.

    I'm looking to buy either the "Diamond Anniversary Edition" or the "Ultimate Max Fleischer Cartoon" edition. Does anyone have any details on either of these?
     
  4. Br'er Lappin

    Br'er Lappin Member

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    The best versions are the ones that come with Superman I & II (or the Ultimate set).

    The second best version is the Diamond Anniversary edition.
     
  5. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

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    I haven't ever seen a version with the Paramount logo, and I've seen literally dozens of releases.

    The best are the ones included on the 14-disc Superman Ultimate Collection (they are also available on the individual Superman I and II special edition DVDs).
     
  6. Optimus81

    Optimus81 Member

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    The one's you guys are referring to have been released by Warner Bros. That's why the Paramount logo and music aren't in the beginnings of the shows, as they've been edited out. What about the Diamond Anniversary collection? Do those have the Paramount intros?

    I know I'm being weird about this, but to me the full intro to the cartoon is like George Lucas' 20th Century Fox logo and music in the opening of Star Wars.
     
  7. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

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    I've never seen the Paramount logo in any of the releases...I don't believe Paramount has an official release, so I don't see why it would be on any of the versions available out there. Sorry I can't be more help.
     
  8. Christo

    Christo Member

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    I have a copy of these on DVD that I bought about 5 - 6 years ago, and it contains the Paramount logo at the beginning. The quality seems fine to me, but I've not seen any other versions of this on DVD, so I really can't compare.

    Distributed by Image Entertainment, the title is "The Superman Cartoons of Max & Dave Fleisher".

    Hope this helps.
     
  9. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

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    I have that one. I forgot it had a Paramount logo.
     
  10. Br'er Lappin

    Br'er Lappin Member

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    So now it just boils down to whether you would rather have the Paramount logo (Diamond Anniversary Set) or the cartoons themselves remastered from the Superman I & II (or Ultimate) sets.

    Having both the Diamond and Ultimate sets, I'd say the latter is better in terms of picture quality and sound, not to mention the documentary that comes with the second half (from Superman II or the Ultimate set)
     
  11. Optimus81

    Optimus81 Member

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    So the Diamond Anniversary set for sure has the opening logo, and the Ultimate does not, but it has great extras? Can anyone confirm this?

    I also have seen "The Superman cartoons of Max and Dave Fleischer," but because that one is out of print, it costs an arm and a leg (I've seen it for about $30, compared to one of the other two I mentioned, which are both $9). Anyway, thanks for that info.
     
  12. FidoMcCokefiend

    FidoMcCokefiend Active Member

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    The Superman I and II DVDs, altho released by Warner, DO contain the Paramount logo at the begining.
     
  13. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

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    They do? I honestly wouldn't remember something like that. In any event, the WB releases have a featurette about the toons and excellent quality.
     
  14. Jessi Black

    Jessi Black Member

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    I read somewhere that these cartoons were drawn over films that were shot of people moving around and generally doing the blocking (that's lingo for moving around on set or stage) that we saw in the cartoons, making the movement of the characters so fluid and realistic. For it's time, at least.

    Wouldn't it be cool if they came up with a brand new cartoon of Superman shot with mocap, or motion capture, in the exact way that the cut scenes of Heavenly Sword were made? It would be in honor of the Fleischer cartoons and I think would be best set in the late thirties or early forties. Of course to keep it interresting I think Superman should be even weaker than in the DCAU's original Superman series. Perhaps as weak as he was in his Golden Age when he could be knocked out cold, but not killed or wounded, by the blast of a shot gun?

    I don't know, what do you think?
     
  15. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!!
    Staff Member Moderator Reporter

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    The technique that the Fleischer Bros. used is called "rotoscoping," and they were the ones who invented it. Disney explicitly rejected its use, although they shot plenty of live-action reference for inspiration, and the folks at the Termite Terrace didn't have the money or the inclination for the "realistic" animation that it permitted.

    It is getting attention in two different ways today. Art Linklater experimented with digital rotoscoping in Waking Life and A Scanner Darkly, where live-action film was turned into something like cel animation through computers drawing over reference footage. I wasn't too pleased with the results, at least in ASD. The other form of digital rotoscoping uses motion capture as the basis for 3-D CGI animation. I believe this is the technique that's used in video game cutscenes. I thought it was used well in Monster House and Appleseed Ex Machina, and abysmally in The Polar Express and Beowulf.

    I think rotoscoping is a bit of a mixed bag, personally. It's been used poorly in a lot of cases, but there are enough cases that yielded interesting and aesthetically pleasing results. I'd give it as much chance as any Superman cartoon to impress me, though, no matter how it was animated.

    -- Ed
     
  16. Jessi Black

    Jessi Black Member

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    That's enlightening. Thanks.
     
  17. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    They did use it very occasionally, during war time. I think it may have been Scrap Happy Daffy, and a few others during that time, that would have such a realistic looking rotoscoped footage of Hitler speaking. It is mentioned in Beck & Friewald's guides.
     
  18. Frank

    Frank Active Member

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    Didn't Filmation use rotoscoping too?
     
  19. SaBaWoJuLe

    SaBaWoJuLe Active Member

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  20. Knightmare

    Knightmare Active Member

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    I already gout these when I got the Ultimate Superman collection a couple of years ago, do the new special features make it worth a double dip?
     

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