1. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice

"Fantastic Four" Reboot Pre-Release Discussion Part Two (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by Rick Jones, May 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    9,548
    Likes Received:
    514
    Release Date: August 7, 2015
    Director: Josh Trank
    Screenplay: Josh Trank, Simon Kinberg, Jeremy Slater
    Cast: Kate Mara as Sue Storm / The Invisible Woman, Miles Teller as Reed Richards / Mr. Fantastic, Toby Kebbell as Victor Domashev, Jamie Bell as Ben Grimm / The Thing, and Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm/Human Torch

    Continued from Part 1

    I guess he counts as a more grounded villain.
     
  2. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    19,516
    Likes Received:
    635
    I see what you did there...
     
  3. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Messages:
    29,444
    Likes Received:
    0
  4. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2001
    Messages:
    16,503
    Likes Received:
    311
    Aww man. Why couldn't they have gotten Isiah Whitlock if they were gonna get an actor from The Wire? Then everyone could make montages with his colorful phrase he loved to use.
     
  5. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    9,548
    Likes Received:
    514
    This thing is really gonna happen, isn't it?
    Sheeeooot.
     
  6. CoolEric158

    CoolEric158 She rocks both ways.

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    3,248
    Likes Received:
    67
    You have heard of interracial marriages, right?
     
  7. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    17
    Thats kind of out the question since niether MJ nor Kate Mara look anything like children of an interracial couple.
     
  8. darkdetective

    darkdetective Former TZ Reporter/Reviewer

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    0
    Could be step-siblings from previous marriages.
     
  9. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    13,250
    Likes Received:
    960
    Cathey is one of Spike Lee's repertoire company. Never a big name or character actor, usually someone who could not easily be trusted.
     
  10. Shawn Hopkins

    Shawn Hopkins TZ Member of the Year 2013

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Messages:
    29,444
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've never heard of one producing anyone as white as Kate Mara.

    Yes, step-siblings would work, too.
     
  11. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    13,250
    Likes Received:
    960
  12. Hanshotfirst1138

    Hanshotfirst1138 Singing drunken lullabies

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    17
    Just while while we're on the subject, everyone watch The Wire. Now. It's one of the major artistic achievements of the last decade plus and set the bar so high for me that I don't know if anything will top it.
     
  13. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,263
    Likes Received:
    89
    The X-Men are a superhero team.

    How do the comics handle the coexistence of the Fantastic Four and mutants?

    Dumb reasons.
     
  14. Goldstar Neo

    Goldstar Neo Good Morning!

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    21,146
    Likes Received:
    82
    The X-Men characters have always worked best when they're the only super powered beings on the planet. To be honest, it never made a lot of sense to me to have a universe in which humans who were born with super powers are prejudiced against and persecuted while humans who gain super powers through some freak accident are regarded as heroes and are treated like celebrities. So basically, it's OK to have super powers, just as long as you weren't born with them. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if the Fantastic Four movies are never integrated with the X-Men movie universe.
     
  15. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    10,083
    Likes Received:
    626
    That's not dumb at all. The comics had the benefit of introducing the Fantastic Four way before the X-Men were created so yes, they got to be unique and interesting. He's 100 percent correct in saying "Why the hell are they a big deal in a world where the X-Men and Magneto already exist?"

    In fact it's always been stupid that humans worship one group of superheroes (people like the Avengers and FF) for getting powers by accident or through science, while hating and discriminating people born with powers like the X-Men.
     
  16. Silverstar

    Silverstar Rock the Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    29,284
    Likes Received:
    131
    The comics don't handle it very well at all, I'd say. I don't think it's a dumb reason in the slightest. If the FF first emerged in the X-Universe, it would be like, "Hey, we're mutated superheroes!" "Yeah, so? The world's already teeming with super powered mutants! What are you guys, more X-Men?" I've never felt that the whole "We hate them thar mutant freaks!" shtick worked in the same world where other metahumans like The F4 and the Avengers existed. Some Capes were born with powers, others gained them in some way, be it by accident, or from being aliens or from science or whatever. The mutant hang-up just doesn't work when there are other metas around and cosmic ray or gamma radiation induced supers aren't a big deal when there are already mutants around.

    Another thing that's always bugged me about the comics is: mutants have co-existed alongside humans and other superheroes in the Marvel Universe for decades now, shouldn't the general public be kind of used to them by now? It makes no sense that mutants can't walk the streets or go to public school or whatever without getting pelted with rotten fruit by haters. That sort of behavior would be understandable when the existence of mutants was first revealed to the public, but people should be over the initial shock by now. Of course, there will always be some bigoted fools who will never accept mutants the same way there are still people who can't accept certain races, religions, social groups or sexual orientations, but the whole worldwide persecution of mutants should have subsided at least somewhat by this time in the comics. Realistically, about half the populace should be accepting or at least tolerant of mutants and they should have more than a few people in their corner by this point, but no, the writers still want to make the X-Men's lives as miserable as possible so the books can keep selling.
     
  17. RoryWilliams

    RoryWilliams Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
    Messages:
    10,083
    Likes Received:
    626
    Basically because the X-Men for years were stuck on Civil Rights Movement parallels. The franchise became popular under writers who grew up in the 50's and 60's and thus inserted that racial turmoil into the story, hence all the imagery of mutants being lynched by racist mobs, not being allowed in school with normal kids, not being allowed in restaurants, and so on.

    Thing is, while racism has certainly NOT gone away, it's certainly changed and racial dynamics aren't what they were in the 60's. So as a result we're in a situation where the X-Men are still using Jim Crow symbolism and imagery which has long since been beat into the ground. The New X-Men series Morrison did actually tried to do away with this and point out how illogical it was, but as soon as he left the writers went right back to the old Claremont ideas.
     
  18. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    13,250
    Likes Received:
    960
    I don't want to get into a huge tangent but yeah, MARVEL Comics has always been slow on incorporating good writing even on a graphic novel level. I think the Captain America book The Truth was great not sure if it passed on into Cap canon history. However their are ways of writing solutions or progressive tales that could easily be incorporated into canon. Don't know if they really want that with X-Men which is extremely relevant. They did copy Alan Moored Watchmen idea for Civil War, not seeing certain things that could easily change things in the MU.
     
  19. Monte

    Monte Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,175
    Likes Received:
    6
    While I don't recall the comics every explaining it well, i feel like I have thought up of SOME logic for why mutants would be treated different than meta-heroes. Publicly known alignment.

    The reason the fantastic four and other meta-heroes are not hated is because they have public identities and are KNOWN by the public as heroes. Its hard for people to argue that they should be hated after they saved the day for the 3rd time in this past month. Contrast them with someone like the Hulk in his early days. Not only is the hulk's identity a secret but he causes a lot of trouble; even though he saved the day a lot of people feared the hulk. Spiderman aswell is a hero who gets a lot of hate from people. It would be a bit more accurate to compare mutants to Hulk or spiderman instead of the FF

    The VAST majority of mutants try to keep their powers a secret like spiderman, and they too get unfairly targeted by the media, but the vast majority don't save the day to counter act such hatred.... thus people fear and hate them. For a real world example look at the discrimination that Muslims have faced in the modern years of terrorism. The vast majority of Mulisms are just ordinary folks, but the actions of a few terrorists has caused a wave of fear and hatred towards muslims. People for instance think its exceptable for them to be monitored extra close "just to be safe". Some of the most extra would like to have them all rounded up and sent overseas. It doesn't matter that the vast majority of muslims are peaceful regular folks; the hatred persists. To bring this back to mutants, you do have evil mutants that end up making a bad name for mutants and feed into the fear. You also have mutants causing all sorts of accidents with their powers feeding more into the fear; superheroes don't make such accidents.

    Think of it this way... You see a solider walking down the street with his rifle on his back; what do you think? You pay him no mind. Society excepts soldiers as heroes and thus we know that even though he carries a deadly weapon, he's here to keep us all safe. But what if instead of a soldier, it was a bearded muslim man with a rifle on his back? People won't look at him like a hero; he'll more than likely make people feel uneasy; and in the wake of terrorism out right scared. That guy could just be a common guy without any ill will in him at all, but because of society's fears people are quick to assume the worst. Basically when people see a superhero, they see a soldier, but when they see a Mutant, they see a suspected terrorist

    Even the X-men don't score many points. While the x-men do engage in heroics, they also end up fighting the authorities in their efforts to protect mutants. For the people that fear and hate mutants, the x-men trying to protect them from draconian authorities actually hurts their image

    Its like people fear and hate every human would superpowers... until they prove that they are NOT bad. In a sense, BOTH mutants and meta humans are feared and hated, its just that the vast majority of meta-humans establish themselves as heroes and shake off any fear and hate they might get for their powers. The vast majority of mutants do not engage in heroics, and thus remain unproven in their eyes and thus remain feared and hated. And to make people more uneasy... the mutants number in the millions around the world and usually can't be seen; that just feeds the paranoia... you could have a mutant living next door and never even know it

    This is atleast, one way I thought the whole situation could be framed. Though this kind of explanation might take too much time to explain in a movie

    Now THIS is what has bugged me the most about x-men comics. The Discrimination and hatred is just WAY too thick. While i can understand a degree of hatred and discrimination, in the modern day such grossly high levels of discrimination would never fly. Thanks to civil rights movement racism and the like has long since been a society taboo; a new race like the mutants suddenly popped up out of no where you can be sure that human rights groups and the like would be all over them and coming to their defense. Really in the X-men comics, human supporters are a rare breed. We would also have scientists and research telling us that mutants are perfectly natural, and we would get plenty of sob stories from mutants who were bullied and attacked for doing nothing wrong. While their might be a good deal of fear and hatred at first, logic and sympathy would prevail and calm society down.

    The most ridiculous was during the schism event when the UN had big meeting to discuss the mutants on Utopia. What made it ridiculous was that at this point the mutant population had been reduced to a mere 200 and most of them were on Utopia. Only like a year ago, mutants numbered in the millions, you could find hundreds in any one city around the world, and their was an entire country dedicated to mutants... If the world managed to survive with THAT, then i don't think it has much to worry about from Utopia. Really, the level of fear and hatred was WAY over the top.

    One of my favorite mutant comics was Vol2 of New X-men and Vol2 of new mutants... And one thing those comics did was make things feel more normal. There was indeed still discrimination, but things seemed like they were gradually getting better for mutants and the humans acted more believable. The series actually had human characters that actually understood the mutant plight! Unfortunately the "Decimation" event hit, the writers changed the series took a very dark and grim tone.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum