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Discussion in 'The Nicktoons Forum' started by Toonatic, May 12, 2015.
Didn't the last person who tried it get fired?
Honestly, I only come here to get news on the actual series, like voice actors and pictures. I got really excited when I saw the poster with Chloe on it and heard her voice actress.
Why is there a sudden surge of sensitivity here? We aren't calling for the mans head. Few people here have suggested anything more than he move on and leave FOP into the hands of someone who cares. I understand that a few of the mods here probably feel a certain sympathy and allegiance to Hartman, he's given you a few interviews and tidbits. We aren't hating though. I've seen what an Anti-Hartman or Anti-FOP hate thread looks like, it can get much much uglier than calling someone a failing cartoonist. If you just came here to worship a cartoonist because hes nice and innocent-seeming, well, sorry, but this thread isn't for you.
Let me ask everyone this, what is the last truly successful thing that Hartman has done? How many years/decades ago was it?
Good point. We know that Steve Marmel allegedly had different ideas for Danny Phantom than the mess it became in Season 3 and he was forced right out the door. Hartman's body of work has been a complete fiasco ever since. I'm not sure if it was the simple departure of talent, or everyone else on the staff saw what happened and started to go full sycophant.
I'm sorry I even contributed - especially when I had nothing of note to say, other than "WHY is THIS show still going?!" (despite that's how I feel about all of this.). I feel that @Lord Beckett & @DeanBurrito25 successfully summed up my thoughts on all of this - and what anyone has anything to do with this show really needs to do to better themselves and their careers going forward if they're going to continue to do this kind of work!
We can't continue to bash Hartman and Fairly OddParents with all the negativity forever. Also if you have nothing to say to this thread, just ignore it and move on.
Remember Neo-Yi has mentioned this:
^Like I said, I've got nothing to say about this show, anymore. I'm more concerned about Harvey Beaks, right now.
Uh... well... the problem is, there really isn't much nice to say right now. Believe me, some of us have really tried.
Also, we've entered a bit of a lull in the thread while we wait for Season 10 to be dumped on us. I question the timing of this sudden call to arms for defending Hartman, there is hardly anyone left in the thread to do bashing ATM. Basically out of nowhere a bunch of users who haven't contributed to the thread at all are trying to shame us for being too critical without understanding the bigger picture.
I was only being semi-tongue in cheek when I called Hartman's staff things like cronies. It's meant to be fun ribbing, not actually insulting these people. They really are a bunch of yesmen though
Fun ribbing or not, the Internet can misinterpret terms such as "cronies" as a direct insult. I'm not stopping you from criticizing Hartman and his crew. I am saying you can do it without the constant name-calling and finger pointing. I've given numerous in-thread warnings in this forum, so this is hardly new development. I admit the new rules are sudden, but if they bother you, please note there are other forums and social media out there where you can express how you feel.
This is what we're doing from now on. If anyone breaks the rules, then infractions will be handed. You guys have been doing a good job being mature about the rule changes as well as discussion in the past, but we can do better without the frequent insults directed at the FOP crew. Please keep it up and thank you.
I do agree that we should be careful in the future not to come off as downright insulting someone.
What is important for everyone to understand is, we're in what is is pretty much a hiatus point for FOP, so most people are posting out of boredom, I think many of us are still having trouble wrapping our heads around why this series was even revived again after that utter insult we got last year, the actual angry scathing posts like what was happening when Sparky was fresh on everyone's minds haven't even arrived yet. I don't want to say "It could be worse" but I could very well see it getting worse if this new girl turns out to be another dud of a character.
So people should take care, don't turn this into a Hartman or FOP bashing fest, and at least try to be objective. At the same time I'm not really expecting much good out of this new season, we've already seen major red flags, so if people return here pitchforks in hand, can any of us really blame them?
Understood. When a show you grew up with is still on their, it can turn into a bit of a habit to keep following it. There was some minor intreg as to how Timmy could develop as a character from his adventures with Cosmo and Wanda. The TV Specials, especially, seemed to highlight this. Trailers for "Abracatsstropie" and "Chanel Chasers" indicated that major change was coming, and that it was depicted as dramatic, almost played straight. However, with latte specials like "Timmy's Secret Wish", which also showcased a supposed turning point in his life, one can not help but feel that Nickelodeon had used advertisements to manipulate them into believing that this was a complete game-changer for the show.
Observing the production, it can't be all Hartman's fault. He might have wanted to add character development and story arcs, but Nickelodeon doesn't want him to. The series suffers from a lot of executive meddling; the insist he try to cram as much slapstick humor into the special. It gets so bad that when there is an attempt at a serious moment, it comes off as "Narm" at best, and insincere and untrustworthy at worst. He definitly has potential; he could write something on par with Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five": mixing humor, drama, pop culture, and character development all into one. Too bad Nickelodeon is holding him back. This seems to happen to anyone working for them.
Well spoken. We can infer so much from videos, articles, and the like, but we'll never officially know what the guy is like. Maybe Hartman does have the ability to write something extraordinary without Nick hampering him, and perhaps he's doing well at at home- perhaps he's not. All in all, I think we're done spewing vitriol and speculation on him for the time being.
With that said, let's continue with our regular discussion with this in mind (apologies to the Mods for having this almost get out of hand again.)
Something I believe the show could benefit from are new writers. Not just current writers who try and mostly fail to keep up with the times or newcomers to Nick who have done this sort of work already, but new, hopeful, and fresh out of the academy writers.
FOP was built on the idea of the struggles of childhood and the magic that could come with it. Back when it came out, Timmy was a lovable and relatable character because his problems reflected ours. The whimsy of his fairies only added to what we really liked about the show- Timmy's life. As much as we liked watching Cosmo and Wanda facing off in a cage battle against other fairies, we also enjoyed watching Timmy fumble with popularity in school and dealing with gender roles. Fun and absurd, yet poignant in premise, the balance of reality and magic made early FOP one of the fondest memories of much of an entire generation.
However, as the show went on, it had become clear that they didn't quite know what to do anymore. The writers became increasingly interested with silliness and logic defying gags in the place of further exploration of the "reality" aspect. The show became more dependent on cheap cultural references to stay relevant rather than development of the characters or plot. Almost obsessively, they turned the absurdity up to 11, then 12, then 13... with no trace of relatable emotion -or the fun- left. What was left was a flanderized, sparkle saturated alienating piece of filler that we could no longer empathize with. By rejecting all reality, the aging, out of touch writers took away the magic.
Here is where the newbies come in. Now, the most popular, most well-received cartoons in the present have tended to tout their mystical plots yet keep their more human, down to earth aspects in tact. Now I'm not saying that FOP should become as philosophical as Pen Ward's Adventure Time or as emotionally charged as Rebecca Sugar's Steven Universe (though it definitely has the potential). I am only saying that a younger, talented artist who remembers what being a kid is like and has grown up with stories that have offered more than the ones Hartman and his crew had might have the ability to bring the feeling of humanity and childhood -and the surprising amount of complexity and nuance it has- back to the show.
Of course not, only until it finally ends
I think the idea of having new, out of the gate writers for the show could work. Look at Harvey Beaks. It has animation veterans like Zeus Cervas and Dani Michaeli, but many of the writers are new to animation like Shane Houghton, Charlie Gavin, Chris Houghton, and more, and they did really well.
a very long interview from Butch. He speaks a lot about chloe and season 10
I was just about to post that!
Through this interview we find out why Timmy has to share his fairies with her. The reason behind it was not as bad as I thought it would be.
The idea might be good on paper, but it all depends on how its executed on the show.
Personally, I think Chloe is just "Cousin Oliver 3.0" to keep the show going, when there are long time established characters we've already connected with.
That being said, I like Chloe's design and possible personality. If Chloe compliment's Timmy well enough in making them a dynamic team (if the writing is decent), then the new season might be an improvement. With the circumstances surrounding Chloe's introduction, she is meant to be a prominent character on the show. Whether or not she becomes a love interest for Timmy, I do have some hope that she would be a much better character than Poof or Sparky.
Still, I'd prefer to see Tootie and Trixie return to the series and pick up where they were left off with Chloe interacting with them. Particularly with Tootie since she is always pursuing Timmy's affections. Only time will tell if its something worthwhile to watch or to curse into oblivion.
One thing I actually appreciate about Hartman's interviews is whenever he describes how he moved through the animation industry, what he needed to do, who he met. For any aspiring television writer, it's invaluable information.
It looks like my guess on why he needed to share fairies was right! It's a surprisingly sound rationale for that part.
However I am still a bit concerned that he chooses only the funniest and biggest voices for roles, and the fact that he seems to think that a bigger voice is always better. As many fans have attested, no. No it is not.
And of course, he brought up the "if we laugh they laugh" rule again, which is, again, not always true. I wonder if they have test audiences for these. If they don't, then that would explain a lot, like how he's apparently trying to keep the show funny and fresh and new but really it's the same old stuff, but lazier. He mentions network demands though, so that might be a factor in it.
But whatever. This video is worth a complete watch because this is probably the most in depth Hartman has talked about his job.
EDIT: Found an article about the video above as well as Hartman's visit to Liberty University
Question about the introduction: would season 10's be the same as usual? Swing music based theme, Timmy in focus, Vicky still the antagonist? Or, like what's been said about Spongebob's intro for next season, will their be changes made? It would seem necessary. Chloe is definitly a gamechanger. Leaving her out of the intro would be confusing.
wait what?! there's going to be a new intro for SBSP? source please? the original intro is classic & shouldn't be messed with (the common phrase "if it ain't broke don't fix it" really applies here) i wonder if they are changing the theme song too?
EDIT:FOP's intro shouldn't be messed with either but they should add chloe in there somewhere so have the original opening but put chloe in there!
I don't see why it should be any different other than Chloe's appearance in it.
Speaking of next season, are the episode titles out yet?