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Election Day 2016 LIVE Talkback Thread

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Nov 6, 2016.

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  1. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    It's not that they necessarily bought any of it, just that Hillary Clinton was such a bad option and would have been more of the same, so a good chunk of people threw up their hands and decided to vote against the system. I mean, if you're paying attention, you know Clinton doesn't care about working people.
     
  2. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but I was talking about the hardcore Trump supporters.
     
  3. Wounded_Dragon

    Wounded_Dragon Active Member

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    No, I know quite a few people at my place of work that actually did believe his "caring businessman" routine. I admit I got more enjoyment than I should of when I explained to one bright-eyed youngster how badly Trump had to file for bankruptcy and how many contractors he had to screw over to make his fortune. Not to mention how much of his money came from inheritance.

    Meh, he never really rebukes them. He just does the mealy-mouthed two-faced "repudiation" Republicans always do as part of their Southern Strategy. It's not a rebuke if he thanks them for their support every time.
     
  4. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    It's almost a week later, and I want to review election results.

    They STILL have yet to declare the results in Michigan or New Hampshire, and it still might be several more days (weeks?) before they do. But Clinton appears to will have won the vote in New Hampshire (she's ahead by around 2,000 votes), and Trump appears to have won the vote in Michigan (by around 12,000 votes).

    So when it's all said and done, Clinton will have 232 Electoral votes, and Trump will have 306 Electoral votes.

    When it came out that Clinton was winning the popular vote, I said I expected it to be within 100,000 or so...well, nope. It's probably going to exceed Al Gore's popular vote total over George W. Bush in 2000 (which was around 500,000...Hillary could get close to double that amount, maybe around a million more votes than Trump, when it's all said and done).

    This article here has some good quotes:

    "Donald Trump didn’t actually flip many Democrats, the thinking goes. Instead, Hillary Clinton failed to turn out liberal voters who had previously voted for Barack Obama. It’s a tempting narrative for smarting progressives, as it maintains status quo thinking—Clinton’s unlikable!—and removes any culpability on the part of the Democrats for missing a massive shift in the electorate. In other words, it’s Clinton’s fault, not theirs, that Trump won the presidency.

    ......

    But let’s be clear: While these uncounted votes may grow Clinton’s popular lead, they absolutely will not change the course of the election. That math is settled; Trump holds an insurmountable lead in swing states, which turned his popular defeat into a sizable electoral victory. All the votes in liberal-leaning New York and California will not change that.

    However, these ballots will knock the legs out beneath the argument that Clinton failed to mobilize Democrats. Yes, she’s no Obama in 2008. (Neither was Obama in 2012.) But county-by-county results indicate Democratic voters flipped for Trump, not that they stayed home. “We just saw massive shifts in the industrial midwest from ’12 to ’16, and those are the same voters,” Wasserman said. This is the conclusion Democrats must face, and in the absence of other data, it’s the one they’ll have to live with."

    More thoughts:

    A part of me wonders if a Republican will ever win the popular vote again. Well, not in the manner like back in 1980, 1984, and 1988, when Reagan and Bush won in landslides.

    After 1988, the last time a Republican won the popular vote was George W. Bush in 2004, and there is something to be said about Bush riding the popularity of our military "success" in a post-September 11th world. People bought into Bush's asking the American people to "stay the course" with his plan for Afghanistan and Iraq.

    If Trump does well, maybe we will get back to a true Republican "landslide" win, 4 years from now. I mean, this year kinda felt like a landslide win, but the loss of the popular vote takes away from that. I remember Bill O'Reilly saying (back around 2002/2003) that at it's core, this was still a "Center-Right" nation, as far as our social/economic values go. The last 8 years have seen my confidence in that shaken. But if Trump wins again in 4 years, then maybe we are still a "Center" to "Right Leaning" population. But Trump and the Republicans have to govern well in the here and now.

    EDIT:

    MORE more thoughts on this:

    There was an interesting segment on ABC's "Good Morning America" this morning. They were interviewing Reince Priebus, and when George Snuffaloffagus brought up Clinton winning the popular vote, Priebus said the nature of the electoral map led Trump to focus on the states he did win (like Pennsylvania and Michigan), and if Trump had focused on campaigning in New York or California, he'd have won the popular vote.

    There is a good portion of New York that loved Donald Trump back in the 80's and 90's, and Trump certainly loves his home town of New York, and I can't help but wonder if he had campaigned hard there, if he could've won that state. California, eh...I don't think any Republican can win there. But Priebus isn't saying he could've won California, just that maybe he could've won the popular vote with a more concentrated effort. But the focus, as it should've been, was on winning the Electoral vote. Which Trump did, handily.
     
    #224 wonderfly, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  5. ToonLoon

    ToonLoon Member

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    The Electoral College controversy is much like states' rights vs. federal law, people will take whichever option they find benefits their side the most at the time. Then flip when they have the advantage. If the Democrats could get by on just locking down the cities and ignoring the geographic majority of the country, they of course would do that. If the Republicans held onto the popular vote in every election, the Democrats would argue the Electoral College gives minorities an equal voice in the process. That it is in line with this country's values.

    In other words, it's a nonissue. The system works as intended, forces candidates to get votes from every part of the country, and that just happens not to be to one side's benefit.
     
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    #225 ToonLoon, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  6. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    Yeek, he just named a Breitbart writer to White House chief strategist. That would be like Obama putting an ex Gawker writer in his cabinet.
     
  7. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    It's way worse than that, some of the stuff you see printed on Breitbart is chilling. Bannon is horrific. The alt right is now in the White House.
     
  8. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    Watching this now. It's from before the election, but might give you a better idea of his plans:


    I don't like Bannon either, but I'm not sure if he's racist. Maybe he is, but I know I've heard that people within Breitbart have admitted that they don't actually believe what they write, which is almost worse. Maybe he's one of them though. Anyway, I'm glad he is only a "strategist/advisor", not Trump's Chief of Staff, which again is the more important day-to-day role, and which went to Priebus.
     
    #228 Dreyfus, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  9. Daikun

    Daikun Long Live the Fighter!
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    Here's a list of headlines he wrote on his website: EDIT: Wrong guy. Sorry.

    There's also that time when he complained of "too many Jews" at the school his daughters were attending.

    Make no mistake--he's a full-on racist.
     
    #229 Daikun, Nov 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  10. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Aren't those all Milo Yiannopoulos articles? The "too many Jews" comments are damning, but far from proven. It wouldn't be the first time someone lied during divorce proceedings.

    Further proof that Trump fooled people into voting for him: Paul Ryan denies there are plans for a deportation force.http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/13/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump-obamacare-deportation-force/ I'm wondering when Trump clarifies whether or not the Muslim ban is still happening, or if he'll explain what "extreme vetting" means. When you're talking about banning an entire religion, you had better be clear and explain it all in full. I doubt he could get the ban through congress, even with a GOP majority.
     
  11. Daikun

    Daikun Long Live the Fighter!
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    D'oh! You're right. Thanks for catching that.
     
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  12. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    No problem, though as executive chairman of Breitbart, he may or may not have signed off on some of these stories. That said, Yiannopolus is pretty well established as a professional troll (and I don't see that begrudgingly), so it's tough to say how serious he is on any of that. Breitbart is a tough nut to crack in that sense, since Milo isn't the only writer who does that.
     
  13. CoolEric158

    CoolEric158 She rocks both ways.

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    Wait, an exec at Breitbart's in the White House? I've been very "wait and see" with Trump so far, but that's honestly the last straw for me.
     
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  14. sun

    sun You stay, I go

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    I was wrong about the outcome of this election. My interpretation of the polls and what the outcome would be were off. I did say that if Florida was very close (which it was) then Trump would have a chance of winning and he won. I have seen outcomes of presidential elections before, and this outcome frightens me. (Bragging about touching women has never been discussed as a problem with a major candidate before).. Too many incidents of racism and sexism were seen not to be concerned and I am very concerned. Many incidents and use of the language of "hate and fear" against immigrants and gays were seen. Many totally legal immigrants were called names and demonized. The "Hate and Anger" seemed to grow..The future will determine the truth of these fears and if that hate and fear does grow. Personally, I hope it becomes weaker and fads away for the good of this country and the world. Good Luck and Best Wishes for All................................................................sun...........
     
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  15. PapaGreg

    PapaGreg Peppermint tea for me

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    Hard to say Hillary was picking fights with Russia with her no "Fly Zone" polices
     
  16. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    Most people say "better the devil you know", which is why I think Hillary won the popular vote, but I can't pretend I'm not glad that she lost. In a lot of ways, it was necessary. I just wish Trump wasn't the alternative.
     
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  17. I.R. Shokew

    I.R. Shokew DISGRACED and Rooting ONLY for Underdogs

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    It's like I said: be weary of, vigilant toward, and ready to act against the Congress, and not just at the federal level, either - when things go wrong and promises for things that should matter aren't kept.

    Government should fear the people, not the opposite, no matter who's in charge.
     
  18. Daikun

    Daikun Long Live the Fighter!
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  19. ToonJay723

    ToonJay723 Bingo Bongo

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    I don't think it should be abolished, but there shouldn't be a "winner takes all". Each state should have the electoral votes distributed proportionately. For example in California, Hiliary gets 33 electoral votes, and Donald gets 18 electoral votes. And in Texas, Donald gets 19 votes, and Hilary gets 16 votes, ect.
     
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  20. I.R. Shokew

    I.R. Shokew DISGRACED and Rooting ONLY for Underdogs

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    Yeah - no thanks. As much as I kinda like @LegoFan224 's suggestion... That doesn't sound like much of an improvement, neither. Especially if things like voter suppression are still an issue that we're having (and will likely worsen under GOP dominance in Congress.).

    Also, abolishing the whole thing outright just because Clinton lost - are you trying to guarantee one-party rule for decades on end?!
     
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