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Election Day 2016 LIVE Talkback Thread

Discussion in 'Cafe toonzone' started by wonderfly, Nov 6, 2016.

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  1. ToonLoon

    ToonLoon Member

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    I agree with all of that Dreyfus, but heightened post-election emotions make that kind of impossible right now. I want to believe that after Trump is in office, people will want to discuss his policies in a pro and con manner, avoiding judgmental blanket statements.

    I'm really hoping people who thought Obama wasn't treated fairly, his policy proposals constantly gridlocked, will not turn around and do the same thing to the new president in an act of revenge.
     
  2. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    I hope so too, but everything I'm reading and where I think (and honestly, hope) the Democratic party is going (toward Bernie Sanders style progressivism) tells me that is exactly what will happen. Have Democrats learned the lessons of the past eight years? Either way, we really just need to go back to working on what we can agree on, namely jobs and infrastructure. People like Sanders are willing to work with Republicans on that kind of stuff.

    As for building better relationships, yes it will take time, but you know what they say, be the change you want to see. It starts with one person saying I can do better.

    EDIT: An update on healthcare under Trump. Will he really repeal Obamacare?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/b...ackage-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
     
    #202 Dreyfus, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  3. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    So far the main defense in favor of these guys who attack minorities has been "free speech." And, well, I'm just gonna put this here:

    “I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you’re saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it’s not literally illegal to express.” --XKCD
     
  4. ToonLoon

    ToonLoon Member

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    That is strawmanning Wonderfly's position to the nth degree. He took the liberal, yes the liberal, position that they had a right to say it, not that the content of the speech was worth defending in the least. He already conceded it was the wrong way to express frustrations. And that back and forth calls for condemnations to be handed out are a sign that everyone needs to take a chill pill. Which is also correct.

    Staff members can't even respect each other it seems.
     
  5. Peter Paltridge

    Peter Paltridge Knows about rock people
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    You know what, you're right -- I apologize.
     
  6. dmxx116

    dmxx116 Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    He won't support it. Despite what the media says, he has consistently rebuked the KKK, though he has been slow to condemn this one. I'm more concerned about why the rally is planned at all. I don't remember the KKK planning a victory party for Mitt Romney.
     
  8. AnotherRandomGuy

    AnotherRandomGuy The cat's in the cradle

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    It's been a crazy week hasn't it?

    I can understand why people are frustrated, nervous, scared, I know I was for the better part of the week. But now's not the time to be acting smug, or be pointing fingers. Yes, Trump won. There's nothing that can be done about that, unless some "extreme" fluke in the political system happened, and given how this year's been going it's possible however extremely unlikely. But what people can do is show their voice and discontent, and that's exactly what they're doing, that's part of what it means to live in a free society, if the pendulum was turned and Hillary had won it would still be the right of the people to protest. People are afraid of having their rights violated, that they are no longer welcome in what they thought was their home, and the influx of bigotry does nothing but justify it. Wonderfly, I trust you aren't racist or bigoted an you thought Trump winning was in everyone's best interest and that there are countless others like you, and I can respect that, but it's now your responsibility to not simply be dismissive of racist acts, even if they are hoaxes, it's all of our responsibility. I don't want to come of patronizing, but it's true. This is a country divided, and we need to be reminded of our similarities other than differences, that things aren't as dark as we think it is, otherwise that divide is only going to grow. And as for Trump, being the leader of the United States means you need to take responsibility for your people, all of your people. For better or worse that duty falls on Trump and it will be up to him and his cabinet to decide what happens next, and if the people must take to the streets to help influence that to feel safe then so be it. Trust is something that's earned, and this country has lost much trust throughout the course of all this. This isn't about winning or losing, this is about the safety and security of everyone not just in America but Mexico, Canada, the EU, Britain. everyone.

    These next four years are going to be interesting, I can say that much
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. wonderfly

    wonderfly Shaking things up a bit
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    Sorry for not responding sooner...but I think it's best to move on, on that branch of the discussion. I've said my piece.

    In other news, The New York Times printed an apology to it's readers, for the way they reported on the Trump campaign. In other words, they admitted they were trying to smear Trump and also didn't take his movement seriously.

    Filling the key cabinet positions in a Trump administration has begun. Reince Priebus will be Chief of Staff, and Steve Bannon (of Breitbart fame) will be top advisor.
     
  10. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    I'm not pro-Trump or pro-Clinton, but I will say this: just glancing at Twitter, various news sites, and even posts on this forum, I feel that Trump has an uphill battle. Literally no matter how good of a job he does or how much he might try to make amends, there are many people who will never acknowledge it.

    Not that I;m saying he'll do a good job. But you never know.
     
  11. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    Or the NYT is falling in line with power now. And they never said they were trying to smear Trump, they just said they underestimated and perhaps ridiculed him too much. They have a president now who vowed to open libel laws that would allow people to sue media organizations, the NYT and other outlets and probably terrified, which is terrible. It's the job of the media to go after the media, albeit fairly and objectively. I don't read the NYT, so I don't know their bias. But a media that is afraid of going after the government or people of power is incredibly dangerous. A newspaper could publish a wonderful and true piece of investigative journalism that exposes wrongdoing by President Trump, and he could scream "it's a lie!" and sue for millions. Do you see why this is dangerous? Anyone can say any story they don't like is untrue and file a lawsuit. Imagine if after first denying Lewinsky affair, Bill Clinton changed the libel laws the way Trump is proposing and sued media organizations for millions of dollars. Does anyone think conservatives (or anyone sane) would be okay with that? He'd be torched for it and it would kill his legacy. But Trump is proposing something similar. Did the NYT try to smear Trump? I don't know, but the potential ramifications could be horrible. We are going to have a media afraid to attack the President, which they should do if it is warranted. It's a terrible day when an editor says "Great work on exposing this, but we can't print it. President Trump will sue us out of business.

    Bannon? Bannon. From Breitbart, the alt-right capital of the world. The leash I was willing to give Trump after his win is growing shorter and shorter.
     
    #211 Spideyzilla, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  12. PapaGreg

    PapaGreg Peppermint tea for me

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    Well never posted anything on this thread but I will say I consider Trump the lesser of two evils
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    Reading the New York Times is so frustrating because they produce great journalism, articles, and analyses, but at the same time, there are people there who are clearly biased and have been implicated in being fed stories by people like Hilary Clinton and the Bush administration.

    As for Banon, I'm actually optimistic because the chief-of-staff position, which is arguably the most important job, was between him and Preibus according to the sites I was reading (The NYT, I believe) and it went to Preibus, so that's good.

    @PapaGreg He may just turn out to be. One can only hope.
     
  14. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    To continue in the area of Trump appointees, he's looking at Jose Rodriguez for head of the CIA. https://theintercept.com/2016/11/11/trump-cia-torture/
    Rodriguez was one of the architects of Bush's torture pr
    The fact Bannon is involved at all is terrifying. Here's another one: a report he's looking at Jose Rodriguez for CIA head. https://theintercept.com/2016/11/11/trump-cia-torture/ Never heard of him? He was one of the architects of the Bush administration's waterboarding program, and destroyed 92 videotapes that showed actual waterboarding sessions done by the government. Why? In his own words:
    So the guy who illegally ordered these tapes destroyed so we couldn't see what the government was doing may be the new head of the CIA. Whatever happened to Trump's calls for law and order?
     
  15. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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  16. ToonLoon

    ToonLoon Member

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    Personally, if they were gonna have one Breitbart journalist in the White House, I rather they appointed Milo as Press Secretary. Press conferences would be worth watching finally with the most fabulous alt-right boogeyman of them all.
     
  17. Dreyfus

    Dreyfus Active Member

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    Milo is a conundrum to me. He's gay but dislikes gay people? Trump could be his own press secretary (or Mike Pence's).
     
  18. Spideyzilla

    Spideyzilla Well-Known Member

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    The thing about Milo is that he is incredibly extreme. After the Orlando massacre, he went on Twitter and demanded that America deport all Muslims, and has consistently said the he believes that is the best course of action. That isn't even his most extreme view. He's also hard to take seriously at times. While I believe his aforementioned stance is legit, he is a professional troll, and openly admits that he takes positions in an argument that he may not necessarily hold because he loves debating. He's very smart and I agree with him on certain things, but he would polarize Trump irrevocably. Liberals, centrists and moderate conservatives probably wouldn't be too fond to have him around.
     
  19. dmxx116

    dmxx116 Well-Known Member

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    This is not about Dem or GOP I think Trump is more of the two evils based on what he said during the campaign.
     
  20. Red Arrow :D

    Red Arrow :D Proud Beneluxer

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    I have heard the new minister of US economy will be someone who owns an oil company :yawn:

    I still can't believe people bought that "businessman cares about middle class" lie :confused:
     
    #220 Red Arrow :D, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
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