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"DC's Legends of Tomorrow" Season One Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by The Penguin, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, seems Penguin missed his cue to post the usual preview of tonight's show. Anyway.......

    Rayendra's over. We all knew that was coming, didn't we? Jax goes home, but bank on him returning in time for the finale.

    So the Time Masters were in league with Savage all along? That explains why they were after Rip for going rogue. Savage had already gotten to them and corrupted them. One more problem to solve in the next two weeks.

    The writing keeps getting worse. Heck, I'd say there'd be a few of us who could do better.......
     
  2. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Out of all of Ray's screw-ups on this show, letting Savage goad him into opening his cell and attacking him because Ray lost Kendra was one of the dumbest. And he also, however unintentionally, helped Savage take out Cold and Heat Wave :rolleyes:.

    Though you still have to feel bad for him. First he loses his fiance to Deathstroke's army, then he loses Felicity to Oliver, and now he loses Kendra to Carter. The dude has had some terrible luck on this show, even setting aside the whole "believed dead" thing. The guy could use some real, lasting, happiness :(.

    It'll be interesting to see Ray and Carter interact now, especially once Carter learns he and Kendra were going to get married...I wonder if they could still adapt their comic friendship in spite of that :sweat:?

    It was great to finally see some resolution with Sara and Nyssa, and that Sara did try and reconnect with her after she was revived. Unfortunately it was when Nyssa was locked up by Merlyn for destroying the Lazarus Pit. I wonder if she had to actually meet Merlyn to set it up? That must've been awkward :eek:.

    I hope they find each other again once Sara comes back to 2016 and the League can no longer keep them apart, and Sara's probably going to need all her loved ones to get over Laurel's death :crying:.

    I guess they needed Jackson gone so Firestorm wasn't there for a quick fix. Heck, that's probably what Savage counted on Stein doing :ack:.

    It was at least nice to see Stein so worried about Jax and trying his utmost to help him, and in-spite of drugging Jefferson again the difference in intentions between then and now showed how far these two have come together and how much they care about each other :).

    It was interesting seeing most of the Legends getting their own chance at a one-on-one with Savage. It would've been interesting to see Snart and Mick converse with him, though I'm not sure there's much that could be done with Jax o_O.

    I wonder if Savage knew about Laurel's death given how long he's lived and how extensively he researched the Legends and their family? He really could have twisted the knife further if he had hinted at it more during his conversation with Sara :mad:.

    Snart getting a bad feeling about what was going on and The Rogues trying to get out of dodge was fun :p.

    Hawkman's back! And not only did he save Kendra and get to beat the tar out of Savage, he actually survived getting stabbed this time :D.

    So what do the Time Masters gain by helping Savage conquer the world by giving him future technology and letting him run about unencumbered? How does that benefit the world or the timestream? Is it something that simply must happen, so they've done everything in their power to ensure it does :confused:?
     
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  3. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Tonight's episode? Deconstructing common sense. Druce and the Time Masters have a God complex or something? What is this? Blasphemy week for Team Berlanti?
     
  4. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    So the reason the Time Masters have been helping Savage is because they have knowledge of an invasion from Thanagar in the distant future that they believe he can stop by conquering the world and uniting it under his rule? The Arrowverse' Superhero community wasn't enough to stop the Thanagarians? Or could their efforts to help Savage rule the world and crush all opposition in the future have prevented the heroes form being able to stop the invasion somehow? It didn't seem like there were any Superheroes in 2166 that were opposing Savage, so I wonder if they all died out o_O...

    I also wonder how the confirmation of Thanagar's existence, and the Thanagarians as a race, will effect the Hawks going forward and how it might tie into their origin :ack:?

    That's got to be rough on Rip, learning that all his actions, no matter how rebellious and heroic, were ultimately planned by the Time Masters and in some way aided Savage. Rip was already responsible for Savage singling out his family, even if the Time Masters intended for it from the very beginning, but the futility of the whole mission has really got to hurt :(.

    Jax coming back to the moment the Legends were first contacted by Rip to get past!Stein to help him get back was cool. Seeing a more mature, seasoned, Jax with all his character development interacting with a past version of Professor Stein was fun. Then Jax comes in with the big hero moment of the episode, leading to the return of Firestorm :D.

    Mick finally admitting he cares about the team, even Ray, as well as comforting Ray in his own way was a really sweet scene :anime:.

    They wouldn't kill off Captain Cold, not before he really forms The Rogues on Flash, so that death is definitely not going to stick. I was always expecting something would take him out of the team and put him back to recurring status, and this might be how they do it. Fitting, though, that the Legend who consistently claimed he wasn't a hero but always had his loyalty to his partner and team performed a heroic sacrifice to save Mick. Snart finally makes up for leaving him behind :crying:.

    Honestly, if Sara was going to kiss anyone on the team, I was expecting it would be Rip over Snart. Or maybe Kendra :p.

    Even if the Legends weren't able to save Rip's family, or even 2166, they can still complete their mission and finally finish Savage once and for all. It's time for a final showdown :cool:.
     
  5. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    I think we've been waiting for Sara to kiss Len since week 1. As for Len, next week's episode will likely end up with an ending that erases a lot of things, including the sacrifice of Captain Cold.
     
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  6. The Penguin

    The Penguin All Hail the King!
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    "Legendary" Season Finale May 19, 2016

    My great apologies for the last couple of weeks, folks. In a two-week contrast, we had a death in the family and then I went with a friend to see Bernie Sanders visit my state.


    Season finale! Tonight at 8 p.m. ET on The CW.

    [​IMG]
    "Legendary" - Season Finale
    Thursday, May 19, 2016 @ 8 p.m. ET/7 CT on The CW
    After the numerous sacrifices the team has made since the beginning of this ride, Rip decides that it’s time they each decide their own destiny.
     
  7. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Where to start:

    Sara learns of Laurel's death. Well, we knew that was coming. So much for Sara rejoining Team Arrow for the finale.

    Hourman (Rex Tyler) joins the team. I guess Booster Gold won't be along until well into season 2.

    The Hawks resign from the team, so there's still two openings.

    Savage is assassinated times three. This played out very much the way it would've in the books, I assure you.

    Ray helping Mick with a job. Whod'athunk?

    Word on the web is that there'll be a 4-way crossover in time for the holidays (Legends, Flash, Arrow, Supergirl). Like, no one saw that coming, right?;)
     
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  8. Rick Jones

    Rick Jones Hero Fan
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    Had my hopes up for Booster but got Hourman as a herald for the JSA. Not bad. I wonder how this will play out, and if it might involve a certain character related to another show.

    I also wonder if we'll ever see more related to Flash's Legion tease.

    Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk.
     
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  9. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    I think eventually they'll get to the Legion----right around the time Booster shows up......
     
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  10. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Holy @#$%! Rex Tyler? Hourman!? The Justice Society of America!? We're getting the Justice Society :eek: :D!!!

    Though I really hope they give Rex a better costume for season 2 :rolleyes:.

    A part of me is wondering if maybe we could've gotten Rick instead of Rex, so Jesse could go from Flash to Legends and we could have them meet, but I also wonder who else will fill out the Arrowverse Justice Society? The real Jay Garrick? Alan Scott is apparently off-limits thanks to the Green Lantern movie. The real Wildcat? Starman/Stargirl? A good Atom-Smasher? Ma Hunkel? Her helmet's in Rip's study ;).

    And I"m wondering what they're origin is going to be...are they a group of Superheroes from another Earth, or are they a future Superhero team born out of the war with Thanagar or some other threat? Is the Justice Society the future Superhero team of the Arrowverse? Are the Legends their progenitor o_O?

    It took two seasons of Flash and a whole season of this show, but Firestorm finally transmutes something :D!

    The Legends fighting Savage at three different time periods at the same time was pretty awesome, but the highlight was definitely the Hawks double-teaming Savage "prime," Kendra stabbing him, and Rip getting the final blow :cool:.

    I kinda felt bad for Carter here. Most of his screentime was just dedicated to gazing at the screen in a kind of stupor, and he barely got to interact with Kendra. I'm also surprised they're not sticking around with the team given the plotline with Thanagar. I wonder when next we'll see the Hawks again :ack:?

    So if Heat Wave is going along with the Legends for season 2, and Captain Cold Cold is seemingly still dead, how are we ever going to get The Rogues together in Flash season 3? Are we going to have to wait for season 4? I know Peyton List is getting another show soon, so it's probably going to be harder to get Golden Glider back. I feel like we should've gotten a scene of Mick telling her what happened to Snart. I wonder if Barry will ever find out?

    Clarissa is one of the most understanding Superhero wives of all time. Her husband goes missing for a year and she welcomes him back with open arms after he returns, then she lets him leave again to better understand his powers, then he goes away for months on a "sabbatical" and she pushes him to go on another one because she knows it's best for him. Professor Stein is a really lucky guy :anime:.

    So did Jax's Dad survive the war or not? I guess we'll never know if Jax actually managed to alter the timestream by telling his dad what happened to him :confused:.

    Sara returns seemingly around the the last Arrow episode, judging by Lance on the Arrowcave computers, only to learn about her sister's fate well after the fact. It was as tough seeing Sara deal with Laurel's death, and react so aggressively to it, as it was seeing Team Arrow deal with it weeks ago. To lose someone so important to you, your own sister, and realizing there's nothing you could've done to save her even if you had been there...that's rough. Especially after everything the Lance sisters have been through together. This family deserves a break :(.

    There were a lot of touching scenes in this episode, alongside all the bombastic action and twists, from Rip being reunited with his family in delirium, Mick getting one last moment with Snart (at least for now), Clarrisa letting Professor Stein go, and Sara and Quentin at Laurel's grave. Which I guess just leaves poor Ray out of luck, as he loses Kendra and their lucky vase :p.
     
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  11. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Peyton is going to be busy with Frequency, so Golden Glider's out of play for now, barring the prospect of Frequency doing a tank job (based on a movie, just because of Limitless).

    Let's not forget that Kendra lost two relationships this season. Not just Ray, but Cisco, too, during the first half of the season on The Flash. Hmmmm, makes ya wonder if she'll return to Central City eventually.......
     
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  12. MDawg

    MDawg Nerfariously planning

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    She won't and good riddens to non-emoting junk.

    Between Hawkgirl leaving forever and the JSA tease, I actually want to see season two now . Season one was a dragging chore due to the Hawks and the awful Vandal Savage plotline (and actor), but there's so much promise now with that mess out of the way.
     
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  13. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    But...... are we really? I'm sure Guggenheim and Kreisberg know Legends first season wasn't a home run and given the tone of there interviews when talking about S2, it sure seems like there trying to reassure the fan base that "no guys, we got it this time, we promise". They know Savage was a dud, and that the Hawks were even worse, so it shouldn't be surprising at all that there going to just let the Thanagarian plot thread hang around a bit while the bad taste of Hawkman/Girl washes away. The Legends of Flarrow Girl have never shied away from giving the people what they want, and I think that's definitely what happened here.



    Probably, although how badly are we really wanting a Rogues mini arc? Given that there two most recognizable members are actual time travelers that are part of a real superhero team, it kind of puts a wrench into whatever conflict you can muster between Flash and his "rogues". It'll be interesting to see in what capacity they bring Snart back, will he be the hero or the anti hero of before?
     
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    #93 Tohya, May 20, 2016
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  14. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I understand people's issues with Falk Hentschel as Hawkman, though I think he had his moments, but I thought Kendra was fine and that Ciara Renee did solid work with what she was given. And I still think Crasper Crump eventually really improved as Savage, but obviously we agree to disagree on that subject ;).

    I don't think claiming the season 2 Big Bad is going to be tougher and more powerful then Savage is saying Savage was a dud, more just the typical serial escalation that you expect when hyping the next season. Maybe this time they'll come up with a better excuse for why the Legends don't just outright kill the bad guy like they constantly had to with Savage, which is more on the writes and the heroes then the villain :sweat:?

    The Rogues are an iconic part of the Flash franchise, and they've been building up to them since season one, which Legends put a hiatus on by removing Cold and Heat Wave. I don't want to have to put the definitive formation of the group off longer then we have to, even if we're still missing a Mirror Master :(.
     
  15. webmonkey44

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    if characters being out of their time period affects them and disables hawk powers. taking the hawkman from the future and putting him in the past should weaken him until he is powerless and loses his identity. 2 find found the way hawkman was brought back was cheap when they left the far more compelling captain cold dead. they could have said the loss of the time manipulation made it possible to bring him back to due to the removal of the manipulation effects but na.

    i was fine with vandal savage. but he got rather labored when the time master conspiracy came up. the behavior of the time lords from new who make sense. the way the time masters behaved i didnt find as plausible.
     
  16. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    Opinions aside, I'm certain that the showrunners knew exactly how the fan base felt about the Hawks, especially given how unceremoniously their exit from the team was. Legends was at its best when neither Savage or the Hawks were in the episode and I guess that's my point. I agree Crump improved, and that Renne had her moments (Hentschel was indefensibly bad) but when you have a very meh reception like the Hawks did, it doesn't make sense to want to bring them back or go through hoops to try and fit them into an already crowded show. Hence why I'm not surprised they were let go.

    My crtique of Crump was always that he didn't have the charmisa to pull off the crap writing they gave him to work with (but someone believed he did hence why I always said he was miscast). But the concept of Savage being the main point of contention for S1 was a dud. You're right, it's on the writers and hence why I believe that interview was essentially an admittence that they screwed the pooch with Savage.

    I kinda feel saying it's been built up is a bit of misnomer. I think whatever plans they had with the Rogues probably already happened. Given how much time gets invested in plots about multiverses, time travel and big bads, trying to fit the very mortal Rogues feels like a step backwards. It always felt like Snart and his Sis were an awkward fit on the Flash, since the show put forth a lot of effort into humanizing them. I mean, their arcs have shot past the whole "theiving" shitck especially now that Legends has finished. I guess my point is that, do we really need Snart and co to revert back to their old ways just to get Rogues going? Or would it be infinitely more interesting to have Miller play the Captain Cold character in a different capacity?
     
  17. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    I didn't even know people had problems with Hawkgirl :sweat:.

    Hentschel was good in some flashback scenes, I thought, but he was never a good fit for Hawkman.

    I hope they're as aware of fan reception as you believe them to be if it means they bring back Katie Cassidy as Black Canary sooner rather then later :mad:.

    I think he grew charismatic enough, or learned to work with the material to his advantage, as the season went on. And I still don't think that interview was an admitting they screwed up Savage, just like Guggenhiem and co. hyping Ra's/Zoom, or saying Darhk was going to be a different kind of Big Bad were not slights to Deathstroke or Reverse-Flash ;).

    The Rogues aren't just Cold, Heat Wave, and his sister. Every debut of a Rogue, from Trickster, Weather Wizard, even Rainbow Raider, is building up to the eventual formation of the group and the challenge they'll present The Flash. The ultimate upping of the stakes between Barry and Snart that's been going on ever since their rivalry kickstarted in Cold's debut way back in season one, and the slow build-up of the Flash's Rogues Gallery :cool:.

    Captain Cold has always been able to challenge The Flash even as a mere mortal, in a way different from other villains, and imagine that with the rest of The Rogues in tow. The possibility of that is not something I want to lose thanks to Legends :(.

    I'm not sure how the Snar's were an awkward fit for The Flash because they took the time to humanize them or get audiences endeared to them. It didn't stop them from being villains, and the Arrowverse is always about making you feel for and understand their villains.

    I don't think we need to have Snart or Mick revert to their old ways per se, just to take their development and become a new kind of Captain Cold and Heat Wave while still proving to be a challenge for The Flash. Maybe now Snart can be less of a scum bag and be more of the genuinely honorable villain that the comic Captain Cold is :)?
     
  18. Tohya

    Tohya deficit omne quod nasciture

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    I sometimes put myself to work the graveyard shift and so I listen to a lot of podcasts, but yeah, a lot of people had huge problems with Hawkgirl. From the forced awkward love triangle between her and Ray to her infamous "just last week I was a barista" to her non existent chemistry with everyone on board the Waverider. Trust me when I say that a large majority of the fanbase is rejoicing that the Hawks are gone for good. In fact, a lot of people were nervous that the introduction of the Thanagarians was going to mean more Hawks in S2 so suffice to say a lot of people were relieved at the end of that season finale.

    BTW, if the rumors are true, the offing of Katie Cassidy was a behind the scenes thing. Lest we forget, Cassidy was a headliner in that show, yet spent the better part of the last three seasons playing little more than a background character to more popular female characters (Lotz, Rickards,) Rumors had it that she was looking to part ways with the show.

    What happened towards the end was that the writing shed light as to what Savages motivations were and so we kind of got a better villain. I don't think Guggenhiem was just giving us the company line, I'm pretty sure all those involved with the show were very aware that nobody was feeling Savage as the main villain and that a lot that fell squarely on the shoulders of Guggenhiem and co. Lets be honest, Savage should of never been put into the role as the seasons big bad guy, Like I said before, as a villain he was worth a two parter and nothing more (which is what they did ironically).

    Lets hope they really do follow through though and give us a bigger and badder villain. I don't think this show can afford another meh villain.

    Awkward because of Millers reception as Captain Cold. I don't think for a second the Showrunners ever thought the Prison Break bros were going to have the kind of fan reaction that they did and therefore never every actually had a plan for them since Millers inclusion into the later episodes of the Flash always felt shoehorned. In the grand scheme of things, Snart really provides nothing for Barry and thus doesn't really have any role to play on the Flash beyond "honorable" villain. In the very black and white world of the Flash, there is no room for the good bad guy and now that his arc has come full circle on Legends, I think he has even less of a role to play as a Rogue. I'm sure we'll get Rogue episodes but I think its something the show will always use as a way to add runtime to the season and nothing more.
     
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  19. Frontier

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    I thought she and Ray were cute at times, even if I had my suspicions Carter would ultimately win out, but the triangle never bothered me. I thought she also had a nice dynamic with Sara. Those were really the only two Legends that she had any significant interaction with :sweat:.

    I doubt it was a behind the scene things that Katie Cassidy was involved with. From all accounts she seemed genuinely shocked and saddened by her characters death, and was incredibly close to the cast and crew and loved being Black Canary, which makes her death all the more a disservice to the character and actress. Ultimately the writers setup a major death without even knowing who would be in the grave, and they ultimately narrowed it down and picked Laurel :shrug:.

    I think Vandal Savage, being the immortal big-time DCU villain that he is, serves the role of a Big Bad for a group of time-travelling Superheroes fairly well. You just need to properly explain why he's a threat and why the team doesn't just go back to the past and off him as a baby, or just finish him in any of the time periods they've encountered him in :rolleyes:.

    I'd be down for seeing the adult Per Degaton show up, especially if we're getting the JSA ;).

    I think there was always a plan, and it was that they would slowly turn Snart into Captain Cold and have him build up The Rogues gang, as he had been doing up until Legends hit. That was the whole point of him helping free all the Metahuman prisoners Team Flash had captured, particularly Weather Wizard and Rainbow Raider.

    I think Snart provides a big challenge for Barry. He's the first villain who ever decisively beat The Flash, and his methodical planning has always kept Barry on his toes, especially when sometimes you never know what to expect from Snart. Imagine that combined with an assortment of other villains in The Rogues :eek:.

    I like to think of The Flash as the more idealistic, fun, and optimistic of the two main Arrowverse solo's, but with some of the more ambiguous stuff Team Flash was done I woudn't say it's a "very black and white world" that they live in, as much as they're all heroes who'll always do the right thing. But in that regard I think Captain Cold fits in fine on the show :).

    Honestly, I think Supergirl's world is comparatively more black and white then The Flash...
     
  20. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    As I wrote in the Arrow thread, the writers put themselves in a creative corner, because they didn't think things out in a timely manner. They should've figured if they were going to kill off someone and have the scene at the grave at the start of the season, they should've had a concrete decision about who'd be in the grave by the time they came to the episode last month, instead of stringing viewers along for six months.

    As a whole, the writing is starting to suffer across the Berlanti-verse, as they're being stretched too thin. They need new writers for next season for all of their shows.
     
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