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"Captain America: Civil War" Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Marvel Live-Action Movies and Television' started by Yojimbo, May 5, 2016.

?

Whose side are you on?

  1. Team Cap

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. Team Iron Man

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Team Underoos

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. Team Zemo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
    Staff Member Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    "I'm sorry, Tony. You know I wouldn't do this if I had any other choice. But he's my friend." - Captain America
    "So was I." - Iron Man

    Captain America: Civil War
    Release Date:
    May 6, 2016 (May 5 advance screenings)
    Studio: Walt Disney Pictures, Marvel Studios
    Directors: Anthony Russo, Joe Russo
    MPAA Rating: PG -13 (for extended sequences of violence, action and mayhem)
    Screenwriters: Christopher Markus, Stephen McFeely
    Starring: Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr., Scarlett Johansson, Sebastian Stan, Anthony Mackie, Emily VanCamp, Don Cheadle, Jeremy Renner, Chadwick Boseman, Paul Bettany, Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Rudd, Frank Grillo, William Hurt, Daniel Brühl, Tom Holland

    Plot Summary: Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War finds Steve Rogers leading the newly formed team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. But after another incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability, headed by a governing body to oversee and direct the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers, resulting in two camps—one led by Steve Rogers and his desire for the Avengers to remain free to defend humanity without government interference, and the other following Tony Stark’s surprising decision to support government oversight and accountability.

    Discuss Captain America: Civil War right here!

    Related Discussion:
    -Ant-Man Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -The Avengers: Age of Ultron Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Captain America: The Winter Soldier Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Iron Man 3 Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Marvel's The Avengers Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Captain America:The First Avenger Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Iron Man 2 Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Iron Man Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Marvel Cinematic Universe News & Discussion (Spoilers)
    -Sam Wilson: Captain America Comic Talkback (Spoilers)
    -The Invincible Iron Man Comic Talkback (Spoilers)
     
  2. Neo Ultra Mike

    Neo Ultra Mike Creeping Shadow of "15000"+ Posts

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    You know though never the most profitable and honestly never specifically a favorite of a lot of people in terms of Avengers, I think Captain America has by far the highest streak of quality when it comes to all of his films. Even though I'm more forgiving on Iron Man 2 then a lot of people I admit it did have some obvious flaws, I still only mildly care for the first Thor and even the second Avengers though still very good was a bit disappointing. Cap though has been hitting it out of the park. There were a couple of corny moments in his first movie and I still admit the first two scenes of it for me were eh but the rest was really good stuff and yeah I'm with the people who dig the hell out of Winter Soldier and appreciate it being a more serious movie. I know some people nitpick those films but... honestly those are some of the biggest complaints you can get about them as well; nitpicking. Though as good as the movies have been one thing I've really been digging is how each movie is not only dependent on a real team work aspect but each seems to be giving into more shades of grey themes. The first was simple enough since well Hydra is pretty much Marvel Nazis anyway so you couldn't go too deep with them and it was suppose to be a campy 40's throwback. Winter Soldier was a 70's spy thriller that blurred the edge with former allies becoming foes and making it hard to trust as even the so called bad guys had some questionable ethics. But Civil War is really treading that line by having the big force Cap faces in this movie be Iron Man. However unlike Batman v Superman this has actually been set up with not only the two in their separate movies but their previous interactions in the Avengers movies. So them actually clashing even not knowing fully how it plays out has some weight to it. However how does that work now having finally seen it?

    I would say it has and I like how every character has a good moment to shine and the various drama we do get here and how it concludes. Which I'm going to put in spoiler tags because well as per usual this is a super long rambly review so be warned if you decide to read it all.


     
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  3. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    WB should be scared. Given that the premise, hype, and marketing campaign of both movies revolved of hero vs hero, Civil War delivers and succeeds. But that might just because this was simply a good movie, and Dawn Of Justice isn't. People for years have been saying WB needs to get on the ball while Marvel continues to dominate with their films. As far as I'm concerned, WB already dropped the ball. If it hasn't dropped, it WILL be when the total box office, critic tallying, internet praise, etc is all said and done when both theatrical releases are concluded.

    I was expecting a straight up adaptation of the story line (where Cap eventually surrenders and is assassinated. *which could have been completely avoided if Iron Man didn't support a superhero registration act). Despite how much I wanted to see Iron Man exposed as the fraud I find him to be, I am also relieved that Cap didn't get killed off at the film's conclusion. Looking forward since Cap didn't get killed off, I'm wondering if a possible 4th installment will (finally) be a legit SOLO Captain America film, and not Avengers 1.5 (Winter Soldier) or Avengers 2.5 (Civil War).

    I wasn't too impressed of Winter Soldier, Civil War was a major improvement, but The First Avenger continues to reign supreme (I consider it to be one of, if not THE best Marvel movie - all Marvel movies, not specifically Marvel Studios movies).

    Unlike Dawn Of Justice and the cinematic DCU, Civil War doesn't make me feel hopeless for the future of the shared MCU. I continue to have no interest in all the The Avengers films (or their solo movies), but the MCU Spider-Man looks to be impressive. Spider-Man's scenes in Civil War was better than everything I saw in both Amazing Spider-Man films combined.

    I also thought every time we saw those large captions when we went to a new location was a bit excessive. I was instantly reminded of the Nostalgia Critic review of the 1990 Captain America.
     
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    #3 rggkjg1, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  4. Freddy

    Freddy Active Member

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    This movie is awesome! Like I said in News thread, it is absolutely one of the Top-3 of the MCU movies with Winter Soldier and the first Avengers movie (I have to watch this again on dvd, before deciding where I would place it exactly).

    The pace of the movie was brisk, but never at the cost of the story or characters. All the fights between the heroes (both the verbal and physical ones) really make you feel bad, since you know almost everyone from the previous movies and their relationships with one and another. However, not even once do the fights feel forced and I can see a lot of people arguing with they friends over who was "right" in the end.

    Every character was handled perfectly. Everyone had their own moments to shine and growth as a person, which planted seeds for the future movies nicely. I'm so eager to see how Vision's and Scarlet Witch's relationship will develop, what will Tony Stark's mental deterioration lead to, what plans do
    have and what Ryan Coogler will bring us in Panther's solo movie, among other things.

    I just have to talk about Spider-Man and Zemo separately. I don't want to declare anything until we have seen more of the character, but Marvel has the potential to give us the definiteve cinematic Spider-Man, since it seems like that we are finally going to get the perfect balance between the two sides of the character. As Peter Parker Tom Holland has Tobey Maguire's awkwardness and as Spider-Man he has Andrew Garfield's swagger, and he moves between these two personalities seamlessly. Zemo, on the other hand, is one of the best MCU villains. Some early twitter reactions were saying something about "wasting the character", but I feel that the minimal use of the character was perfect way to go and Daniel Brühl gives very Hannibal Lecter-y performance. I would love to see him lead the Masters of Evil in some future movie.

    The action scenes were easily some of the Mavel's best. Early in the movie, some of the hand-to-hand combat scenes do have some needless shaky-cam (which is weird, since Russo bros. avoided it so perfectly in The Winter Soldier), but as the movie moves on, things get gradually better. Both the big fight between the two teams and the personal fight between Cap and Iron Man where executed with style. Especially certain scene in a airport will be remembered in history.

    Can't really think anything more to say. Marvel just scored another victory and if this is a promise of what to expect from Phase 3, I can't help but to shed some fanboy tears of happiness. At least no one can doubt Russo brothers ability to take on the Infinity War.
     
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  5. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    I just love the movie. It was one of the best from Marvel Universe, among Iron Man 1 and Cap 2.

    My comments are probably the same ones that everybody already posted but I would like to develop further regarding Zemo.

    I agree that they treated him very well in the movie, but I think it felt forced for him to know all those things about Winter Soldier (how to control him, that he killed Stark's parents etc.) so he could plan this evil scheming to destroy the Avengers from within.

    I, as a comic fan, know that Zemo is a classic Captain villain, but in the movie, he is portrayed as a simple Sokovia soldier whose family was killed by the fight between Ultron and Avengers.

    If they develop him more in the sequels, then this plot hole of he knowing too much about Winter Soldier that he was supposed to know will be explained, but I think it was confusing for the general audiences. If Zemo is going to return in the sequels, I think a more detailed explanation would be in order, in that interrogation scene in the end.

    Another point that I would like to comment is about General Ross. It's amazing how everybody forgot his unethical actions in Incredible Hulk. He being appointed to be Secretary of State is ok, but I never saw Captain America to confront and challenge him about it when he was so high an might on the heroes about putting civil lives in danger. I think this fact would add another layer on why Captain was not agreeing with Ross initiative to begin with.
     
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    #5 Young Justice, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  6. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    What was forced about it? He explained it all. He used Black Widow's Wikileaks style dump of SHIELD and HYDRA data and went through everything meticulously looking for anything to use against the Avengers.

    In a film universe in which a man who seemingly hangs out all the time develops new tech every day and a man can go from the size of an ant to the size of 4 Hulks stacked on top of each other like Donkey Kongs, it's acceptable that a man could have enough smarts, time, and patience to decrypt enough files to find such information and develop a plan.
     
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  7. Gold Guy

    Gold Guy Ride On
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    So that was amazing. Wow.

    Maybe this film can finally stop the "so many characters is a bad thing" discussion. This film had over 15 characters, and none of them were wasted (aside from maybe Martin Freeman's character). Heck, one thing I love about the MCU Avengers is that they're all likable, from Cap to Tony to Vision to Hawkeye. That's what really makes the film so great; when the characters have their debates, you're engrossed because you can empathize with both sides, and that final fight - man, easily the most brutal MCU film fight so far, and I don't just mean the punches.

    I'm not gonna do a DC/Marvel comparison, but this film mainly works so well because you care about the characters a lot because of the course of many years and films.

    The fights, like in Winter Soldier, are brutal, and I love them. You feel every blow. These characters can hit hard!

    Like I said, all the characters are great, so I'll mostly discuss the new ones. Holland was great as Peter, showing some of that Parker-awkwardness. Also, that scene where he catches Winter Soldier's punch? YES! Boseman was also great as Panther. His silent fury was palpable, and his accent was really well done.

    Zemo wasn't what I was expecting, but his overall plan was interesting, if not a bit too Aizen-ish. I'm hoping we seem him lead the Masters of Evil eventually, though.

    The airport sequence was worth the hype. They said it couodn't be done; a large scale battle with over ten combatants. And they pulled it off. The fight is fun, fun, fun, and quite the spectacle. Every character gets to use their abilities in interesting and sometimes new ways, and their personalities never get lose in the action, unlike Transformers.

    I also admire that the film doesn't necessarily have a super-happy ending. Some of those emotional scars will take a while to heal.

    Small notes: I'm glad they acknowledged Iron Man 3, and Thor and Hulk's absence. Things like that make me happy. Also, not a fan of the Steve and Sharon romance. Eh.

    But overall, great movie. Now on to Dr. Strange.
     
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  8. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Went & saw it today.

    Yeah, it's better than "Dawn of Justice", but that wasn't too hard. However, it makes the same mistake "Dawn" does in that the action stops for a few minutes just to have Tony drop in on Peter Parker and a youthful looking Aunt May (Marisa Tomei is still hot!). Tom Holland plays Peter/Spidey as somewhere in between the classic teenage webhead of yore and the insufferable, too-chatty-for-his-own-good goof from Ultimate Spider-Man. The latter version I can do without, thank you.

    IIRC, Helmut Zemo was of German or Austrian descent in the books, so of course his nationality is changed, using something from "Age of Ultron" as motivation for his little game of human chess. Something tells me Bucky will return in "Black Panther", but what role he plays is open to conjecture.

    Chadwick Boseman absolutely nailed T'Challa. 'Nuff said.

    So they're claiming Bucky killed Tony's parents whilst under the control of Hydra?? Was that the case in the books, too?
     
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  9. kid rabbit

    kid rabbit Active Member

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    I wished Zemo had put on his mask
     
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  10. Crash

    Crash Active Member

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    He was a Sokovian intelligence officer. That was mentioned once in an off-hand comment. So at least he the skill to sift through leaked HYDRA documents. Although it still seems like a huge coincidence/leap of logic that he was looking for, much less found the exact information that he did...

    Zemo was neat. He just....wasn't the full Zemo. If certain characters had turned out to be...of I don't know...Thunderbolts, it may have been different. And that still may happen. But until then, yet another Marvel Villain that didn't live up their potential.

    ...Just like Crossbones. Sad how quickly that happened.

    A lot of characters here, and a lot of really neat developments in those characters... But Falcon really managed to stand out to me! Awesome use of his powers. The wing-shields, especially. And his drone. What he name it? Red Hawk? I dunno. But his asking Widow to thank the drone, by name, was hilarious. As were a lot of his other quips. Come to think of it....as cool as this version of Spider Man was, I want a solo Falcon movie! Who's with me?
     
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  11. Neo Yi

    Neo Yi The Apparition
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    Got back from seeing it yesterday and had an absolutely blast.

    At first, I thought it was kind of bloated (inevitable with its numerous characters) and the Bucky Barnes subplot and the Iron Man vs. Cap story to be too detached until the end, but the more I think about, the more I realize what a miracle this film is. The fact that it managed to tell a competent, straightforward story without making it feel convoluted is amazing in its own right, but it's layered it in a way that it's easy to root for and against both Captain America and Iron Man.

    If there's a bit of a biting flaw, it's that we see less of Cap's reasoning against the government registration than we do Iron Man's. Civil War made it clear - viciously over and over again - that Tony feels guilty for the cavalier attitude he's been sporting with his superheroing. The deaths he has sparked, the blame he frequently gets, the continuous guilt over his parents' loss that culminated in finding out Bucky murdered them and Steve did NOT tell him, and even the break up between him and Pepper (a resounding "noooooo" went off in my head; she has very good reasons for breaking up with Tony, but Pepperony is my biggest MCU ship, so "nooooo" XD) shows a man who has been broken several times over that yeah, he's totally gonna be Pro-Registry.

    Captain America? Well, he's not without justification; the biggest example being HYDRA's sneaky infiltration over SHIELD back in Winter Soldier that sold the idea that even the government he used to work for cannot be trusted (granted, this isn't really SHIELD's fault, so depending on how you look at it, the reasoning behind Cap's Anti-Registry is even less sound), the other being Bucky himself. You can't blame Steve from trying to help his best friend: with Peggy especially now departed from the world, there is no one he can turn to; know to relate and familiarize in this new time than his companion. Bucky's also been brainwashed to commit high atrocities, which in itself debates how responsible he must be for the actions he's caused. But Steve's reasoning are honestly kind of flimsy compared to Iron Man. It delves into the question on whether one man's capture (Bucky) should be considered in order to save the rest of the population before he causes anymore harm. Bucky may not have intended to hurt out of his own free will, but he is not reliable as long as that "programming" inside of him is intact.

    Buuuut
    I'm not vilifying Steve nor think he isn't without justification. That's what's so good about Civil War, both sides have their pros and cons: Tony may try to do what's right to minimize damage, but the pro-registry will be controlled and limited. What if they get into a situation that the government won't allow? That could make a worse situation even more chaotic. Not to mention Iron Man's hiring of Spider-Man, a boy who's only fifteen. Tony's not heartless and he tells the kid to back off when things are done, but it's a questionable move that the film clearly hints at. Stuff like that is just great because there is legitimate conflict on both sides and the fact that these characters understand their motives and backgrounds not only revs up the intensity, but reminds us how heartbreaking it all is. The Avengers are falling apart.

    But this is why I love Marvel movies. Because even when they're all down, there is never a sense of cynicism to be found. The registration passes, but Captain America refuses to give up. He's at his lowest; possibly a criminal (oh, poor Ant-Man, will he ever see his daughter again? ...Maybe, he does have a sequel film coming), but he's still kind, friendly, and has a righteous sense of justice. He apologizes to Tony and trusts the man with a phone to call if he ever needs them. This man is now a fugitive and he still believes in the hope that things will work out and ties can be mended. I love it. I love the unending optimism Steve carries. This doesn't make him naive - he knows the consequences he has to suffer - but instead demonstrates his determination and willingness to always be a champion of hope and goodwill. And Tony goes out of his way to block Ross off and god, this movie! Even that scene where War Machine is about to fall as both Iron Man and Falcon going out of their way to help him despite being on opposite sides. There are hints of a third option even with the passing of the Pro-Registry, something that can affect future movies.

    Civil War is a movie that beautifully explores the ramifications of superheroes and the negative impact they have on the world, but never dips into the "dark and edgy" cynicism that I despise. Marvel knows how to make a film that explores the negativity without ever making me feel depressed. Zemo did what Loki - a flippin' God-like being - couldn't do and broke the Avengers apart, but there's a light at the end even if things have changed, for better or worse.

    Oh, right: Black Panther was amazing. Kudos on making him a third party with an arc of his own. Spider-Man was adorable and just needs a hug. The humor between him and Ant-Man is a bit out there during the Big Airport Battle Scene when the rest of the movie was significantly serious, but I don't care, I loved it. Also Vision in a dorky sweater, pfft.

    I love this movie. It's a great movie.
     
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  12. the greenman

    the greenman Well-Known Member

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    Watched this yesterday, and kinda needed time to collect my thoughts. I will say, this is Avengers 2 imho. Zemo was the perfect villain, even going so far to put in jumpscares every time he appeared, or causing a sense of mystery and dread. Most importantly they gave him a simplific motivation.

    The rivalry between Tony and Steve was perfect. I love the footage of Hulk tearing down a skyscrapper and we get a shot of Natasha's reaction. Also, Alfre Woodard shouldve been Amanda Waller, just saying. I almost expected Picard facepalms all around in that scene. Black Panther's cameo one upped WW's in BvS, and actually what I wouldve prefered from her.

    I'm not going to gush over Spidey until we get a full film, but a good start. Still don't care for Stark helping him so much, but I didn't mind it too much. All in all one of MCU's top 5 films.

    Sent from my LGMS323 using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Holy smokes, that was a thriller to say the least. Russos really topped themselves with this one. I'm a lot less worried about the Russos helming the next two Avengers movies.

    -What I liked

    I just loved Black Panther and Spider-Man. They fit into the story and it never felt they were forced in.

    BP had a complete story start to finish. He went from the hesitant diplomat, revenge driven warrior, to being the outsider realizing the truth and stopping Zemo from completing his plan and killing himself, to giving Bucky asylum while a cure is worked on. It's a shame T'Chaka died but there are ways to explore the history of the mantle. But equally, it will fun to see what the BP solo will explore. Points for acknowledging the stolen Vibranium that Ultron in turn stole.

    Spider-Man, pure awesome. Dug his 'retro tech' and rambling. So he was Spidey for six months. Glad that was clear. YT footage was neat. Marissa Tomei. Hmm. Nothing against her but still thinking "Wow, so this is Aunt May now!" Tony and Peter definitely had great scenes and chemistry together. Though I dunno about Tony being a mentor and using a child as a soldier but...we'll see what happens. The connection Steve made with him was cool. I loved how he was geeking out at the airport battle.

    The bigger surprise was the great pairing with Falcon and Bucky. The 'can you move your seat' in the Beetle and 'you couldn't do that earlier?' at the airport was some of the funniest bits. As was when they were giving props to Steve after the kiss.

    Ant-Man was also a joy to see. No real answers on his status post-Ant-Man other than he was tested the Giant-Man mode once in the lab. Touching Steve was hilarious. The fight with Black Widow, riding the arrow, "I'm your conscience," Giant-Man, the Empire Strikes Back takedown, and Tony's "Who are you?" -- loved it all.

    Broadly, this interpretation of Zemo was a nice chance of pace. Usually it's an over the top supervillain with a massive army -- Loki and the Chitauri, Killian and A.I.M., Pierce and HYDRA, Strucker and HYDRA, Ultron and his drones, etc. But here, just one man who lost his family. It was an excellent twist that the encrypted S.H.I.E.L.D. files that Natasha dumped onto the Internet was Zemo's ammunition here. It made total sense but you were sort of led to believe he was going to activate the super soldiers and instead he killed them all. It was just one man, albeit with covert military experience and motive, with no powers or super suit or army. One man tore the Avengers apart. I was concerned he would be the weakpoint of the movie and lost in the story, but glad to be wrong. He just might be one of the best MCU villains yet.

    The truth about Howard and Maria's deaths was gut wrenching. Just hearing Howard trying to plead with Winter Soldier after recognizing him as Barnes. Uh. I thought maybe he shot their car from afar and it crashed. But for it to be him, in brainwash mode, killing them with his bare hands. Heart breaking. But this movie was the right time to reveal it completely and there is a bit of full circle after it was first mentioned/seeded in the first Iron Man movie. And I doubt this is the last time we'll see Howard.

    They still figure out cool new ways to suit up Tony. The wrist watch gauntlet thing was cool by itself but then the James Bond-ish helicopter thing was oh, so dope.

    Tony Stank! LMAO. Just when you're wondering when Stan Lee is going to show up.

    -Other stuff that I did not take as a negative/positive but I was like "huh?" or "meh"

    The MIT scene. It did clear up a missing piece of the Stark backstory, introduce Maria other than the one tie-in comic cameo -- the everybody gets a grant and the guy with the hot dog idea seemed oddly executed.

    A grieving mom caused Civil War. Great way to start Mother's Day weekend. Ok ok, it was Tony's ego and guilt but still...he should have arrested himself.

    Tony and Pepper taking a break. Yeah, they acknowledged her negative reaction to Tony suiting up after IM3 and blowing up the suits -- but I guess that's how they'll write her out of future appearances but still exist in the MCU like Dr. Foster.

    So for x amount of time, the U.S. government had a top secret underwater superpower prison and had no one locked up in it until this movie?

    Hawkeye being Hawkeye.

    Everett Ross was introduced and that was about it.

    Steve pulling a 'drop the mic' and leaving his shield with Tony.

    -What I didn't like OR am nitpicking

    1. It was a little unclear but I guess after Natasha told Tony to watch his back and left the New Avengers facility, she went off grid on her own a la Hulk?

    2. The December 16, 1991 video tape -- so there was a live traffic camera on some boondocks road on Long Island recording the death of the Starks? Were there cameras back then? And WS or HYDRA went to the trouble of finding that video tape?

    3. What was Howard doing with experimental Super Soldier Serum in his trunk? I thought all of Steve's blood was used or destroyed? I guess that didn't stop him from trying to replicate it for a little under 50 years and we saw it's negative side effects in play.

    4. So it was just a coincidence that the Lagos incident happened just when Zemo found the old HYDRA colonel in Cleveland? Or how did Zemo know Dr. Broussard was the physician assigned to evaluate Bucky in Berlin? Or even, how did he know Iron Man was going to end up in Siberia to see the video tape?

    5. No mention of Fury or Hill.

    6. Vision taking the shot at Falcon and crippling War Machine instead. What possessed him to take do something so stupid. It's not like they cleared airspace around that airport or did they? I recall they evacuated the airport. If not them, he could have shot down a plane. And he didn't even get any punishment for it. I thought Vision was the weakpoint of the movie. One of the characters were bound to have a poor showing I suppose.

    7. I'm definitely Team Cap. Ross was clearly clouding the argument by showing footage of those past incidents. If they waited for UN approval, the Chitauri would have taken New York City and the east coast. HYDRA would have assassinated everyone with Project Insight. Tony and Bruce may not have made Ultron but I suspect Strucker would have anyway and the same series of events would play out. Adding a layer of government oversight and forcing supers to register or be branded a criminal vigilante is a joke. But in the back of my mind, it could have been avoided if the Avengers had a PR or government liaison before hand. It didn't sound like they were communicating and coordinating with anyone -- just going into places like Lagos. Not to say the least Ross was a hypocrite - he sent Army forces onto a college campus and that led to chaos. He brought in and influenced the creation of Abomination who trashed Harlem real good. But I'm sure that got all covered up nice and neat.

    8. While Zemo made it out alive, yes the main villain in a MCU movie lived -- Rumlow's suicide was such a waste. I wished they did something else like they get the charges off him at the last second but he still tries to detonate it and then the same thing with Wanda trying to TK it into the sky but blows the building.

    9. Vision was wrong about Iron Man being around for 8 years. There was a clear repair to the timeline post Phase 1 with certain movies overlapping. Basically, not 2008, Vision. 2010. So 6 years.

    -End credits teasers

    1. Hmm. So T'Challa gave Steve and his allies asylum in Wakanda while the scientists work on a way to erase the HYDRA programming in Bucky. I wonder though, does this mean Steve, Sam, Scott, Clint, and Wanda are staying put in Wakanda or are they still going to operate under the radar sort of like S.H.I.E.L.D. does -- and there will technically be two teams of Avengers. They are all still technically criminals and at least Ross wants them imprisoned -- at this point, it doesn't seem like Tony is going to pursue them. Still, it was cool to see some visual confirmation that Wakanda retains the comic roots of technological advancement.

    2. Interesting the end tag was "Spider-Man will return" and no one else. But the second teaser was pretty cool. I was expecting a lead-in to Dr. Strange in media res like the Civil War excerpt in Ant-Man. It was so awesome to see the Spider-Signal. Looks like it's a bit more than that, like a projected virtual desktop like how Tony has. Like I said before, Peter/Spidey was a joy in this movie and I'm looking even more forward to Homecoming. The Steve and Ant-Man nod was hilarious. One last laugh.
     
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  14. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think of it until your post, Yojimbo, but it's fitting that the news the Agent Carter is not likely to return for Season 3 came before we saw Howard Stark's death and Peggy Carter's funeral along with Vision taking on Jarvis' persona. Civil War was kind of an epilogue to Agent Carter. I feel better about saying goodbye to those characters.

    Completely agree that Zemo as the villain was a nice change of pace from the "over the top supervillain and a massive army." It's like MCU films took a lesson from Marvel TV. We saw with Fisk, Kilgrave, and Frost how effective one smart supervillain could be. I'm also happy they left him alive and how they did it with T'Challa not allowing him to kill himself.
     
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  15. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    I understand your point, but it didn't feel like that to me. If this knowledge were public, why Stark wouldn't know that his parents were murdered? Stark would be the first one to take all those Shield files and would decrypt them. He would have the means, the motive and the time to do it. He always wants to have the greater amount of knowledge possible. He wouldn't sit on a pile of classified Shield and Hydra documents and not see for himself what they were.

    I think showing that Zemo was the son o a high profile Hydra member (Baron Zemo) would be enough to explain how he got all that knowledge.
     
  16. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    One thing I sort of realized, if Tony was keeping tabs on Spider-Man and the fact he chose him -- makes you wonder who else he's keeping tabs on... in a way, I guess that keeps Iron Man relevant and sets the stage for one way new superheroes could be introduced in the future.

    I looked at it as HYDRA had the one copy of the truth of the events the camera footage on VHS and it was locked up in the Siberia base. It didn't sound like S.H.I.E.L.D. knew they were killed by the Winter Soldier. I thought when Steve admitted he knew, it was just because he had an inkling of what really happened because Zola was trolling him about it in the underground room in TWS. Zola would have known because he's been to that base in the past to work on Bucky and presumably repairs over the decades. Pity, he didn't get a cameo in those Siberia flashbacks in this movie.

    EDIT: Markus and McFeely on no Nick Fury.

    5/11: Added a poll. D'oh!
     
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  17. reflection01

    reflection01 Well-Known Member

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    I am curious if Tony has access to street cameras in Hell's Kitchen. Interactions between Tony and Jessica Jones would be gold.
     
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  18. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    That's exactly my point on how Zemo would have to be well connected in HYDRA organization to know how to architect this whole scheme to destroy the Avengers from within. The movie never explained that he was that well connected. He was a common intelligence officer.

    We know the importance of the Zemo name in the Marvel mythos. The general audience don't.
     
  19. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    I swear they said he was in an elite black ops squad. He was probably experienced/taught in taking down regimes and applied that to the Avengers. But even that aside, probably going through the files with the red book probably helping him fill in some blanks in his plan that he crafted from going over encrypted S.H.I.E.L.D. files for a little over a year. It was likely in the Colonel's hidden wall files that confirmed Zemo's suspicions that the Winter Soldier killed the Starks.

    But I admit, they do leave a bit much for the audience to infer.

    EDIT: Supposed concept art for Zemo.
     
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    #19 Yojimbo, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  20. hobbyfan

    hobbyfan Well-Known Member

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    Well, between an early scene in the movie and a quick bit on Agents of SHIELD, it seems Marvel Studios knew Agent Carter wouldn't return, and it was confirmed.
     
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