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Cadpig

Discussion in 'Animation Wiki Discussion' started by The Huntsman, Aug 31, 2008.

  1. The Huntsman

    The Huntsman Friend of Toon Zone

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    Discussion thread for Cadpig. If you would like to add a comment, click the Post Reply button.

    I’m still in the process of experimenting with images and how to use them properly in our pages, but I have to say that images definitely make things better. I’ve noticed something that might need to be fixed, but everything seems to be working fine.
     
  2. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    Hmm, that IS better. I'm glad we were able to get this enabled (thanks, Harley). Once we get the hang of it, maybe we can make using images well a FAQ item.
     
  3. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    Not to be rude, but does such a character really call for an individual page?
     
  4. DarthGonzo

    DarthGonzo Fourteen Years!

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    I'm glad someone actually said this...

    No. Not particularly. I think this Wiki is far too young and far too incomplete for anyone to be focusing on a character such as this. IMHO this is really a perfect example of why I'm fine just sticking to Wikipedia for all my cartoon information - even if it means running into the possibility of coming across false information.

    My problem with the Wiki so far is that - just by looking at the threads on the Wiki forum - there's obviously going to be a heavy bias towards cartoons and characters of a certain type. If I really, really want information on something (anything) I doubt that the TZ Wiki offers anything (at least so far) that Wikipedia doesn't. Especially when an entry on a minor, obscure character such as Cadpig in several times longer than the entry on animation as a whole.

    Yes, I could contribute to the Wiki myself and put my money where my mouth is, but again I don't see the point when I'd just be repeating information I can easily find on Wikipedia.

    I hope this post doesn't upset anyone, but I'm just stating how I feel.
     
  5. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    This is a valid point. There is a natural tendency to write what we know best, but we realize that there is a lot of baseline information that isn't here right now that, well, needs to be. Right now a lot of brainstorming is going on about improving things; one idea we're kicking around is deciding on certain important articles that should be highlighted as needing special attention (animation and its history would certainly be one). The "to do" list can be useful but when there's literally hundreds of pages to create, it can look pretty daunting. To the extent that it's possible, we do want to try to bring some focus to our efforts in the near future.

    Incidentally, so far as perceived biases toward certain characters and cartoons go, please highlight the gaps that you think exist. We definitely don't want some areas of animation being completely neglected in favor of others.

    As for the other criticism, look: This project is barely over three months old. It's still in a very early stage of development, and we are acutely aware that it looks that way right now. We think that in time though, we can reach a level of detail and certainly a level of reliability and legitimacy that Wikipedia often doesn't have. I've already noticed certain categories that would bring information to the table that other places on the internet do not. There is a lot of potential.

    This won't turn into a formidable resource overnight. Just speaking personally though, making a contribution--any contribution--brings us closer to that ideal goal. It doesn't matter if you feel that you personally can do better than something else. What the wiki badly needs is a strong foundation from which it can be built into something truly impressive, but that will be a long time coming if too many folks stand on the sidelines and wait for it to become a rival to Wikipedia before considering it to be worth their time. If I were still a detached observer, I would say exactly the same.

    Finally, far from hurting our feelings, we want to hear all opinions and that includes criticism. Nobody should hold back, and me and Huntsman will always welcome posts or PM's that have something to say. Without the community there isn't a TZ Wiki, and the goal is for the Wiki to reflect our collective desires and goals a lot more than it does right now.

    -GWO
     
  6. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    The concern I would raise is putting too much focus on niche articles. Shortly before the Wiki went live I started a number of articles based on my interests to help with testing. However, I also tried to work on wider terminology articles and important codes like that for stubs.
    The Huntsman might be a fan of 101 Dalmations but a character like Cadpig should be very low on the priority list. In general, I'd even say character articles are something that shouldn't really be focussed on now when there's still so many other pressing entries that need to be added to give the TZ Wiki the pull it needs. If character articles are getting made now, I feel it should be notable icons like Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, etc. Not obscure characters from cancelled shows. It might be blunt, but I doubt anyone right now would evaluate this Wiki and say "Hey, they have a Cadpig entry! That'll keep me coming back".
     
  7. MonkeyFunk

    MonkeyFunk Kids and grown-ups love me so

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    Like I said the last time this was brought up, we have got more information on certain subjects than Wikipedia. Our article on the history of British animation, for a start, is considerably more thorough than Wikipedia's. Animated Conversations doesn't even have its own Wikipedia article - indeed, it's pretty poorly documented across the Internet - but since it played a key part in the early days of one of the most successful animation studios around, it's worth talking about. No, right now the TZ wiki isn't going to be anybody's first choice for information, but covering niche subjects like this can bring in a few hits from Google if nothing else.

    And for the record, as well as adding pages on my own niche interests, I'm working on articles covering the animators on this list, so it's not like I'm ignoring the basics.

    All that said, there are some areas I'm surprised no-one's covered. We have next to no info on Warner or Disney (aside from their TV series), and I don't believe there's any mention at all of Pixar.
     
  8. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    An additional concern is that character articles are very subjective. Everyone will interpret a character a different way, whilst with say the basics of a show or animation process it's easier to keep to clear facts. If a fan types out some profile based on their own interpretation of the character, how much use is it? Over at the main Wikipedia, one of the common rules is noteability. If you're making an article on a fictional character, how relevant are they to the wider world, genre or industry? That way you're building up an article from a more academic sense and it keeps focus on those who are more 'important'. The heavy hitters get covered first, then the B-list and so on.

    Basically, I think character articles are a can of worms and best not delved into until later. I mean, the sheer idea of seemingly giving EVERY animated character ever an individual page...
     
  9. Daxdiv

    Daxdiv Does this look like the face of mercy?

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    Yeah that is a problem with character page. They need to be neutral. But they can work with the contribution of others. My point being other wiki inspired pages/sites I visit have character pages for their respective games, tv shows, anime, manga, and other appearances, and have a good amount of info on them, that doesn't paint them in a positive or negative light.
     
  10. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    Problem is, the scope of this project is vast. If you start doing character pages when so much else has to be established, people will ask "Why does this character have a page but not this one? What's so special about them?"

    You also need to consider that the Wiki as a whole needs a clear language and layout. There needs to be a manual of style that all articles and within that sub genres of articles follow. It doesn't look very good if everyone is off doing their own pages and they look totally unrelated. You need clear rules so that when people read through this, this feels like one united, massive animation database.
     
  11. DarthGonzo

    DarthGonzo Fourteen Years!

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    Well at least in this case we know our answer. Cadpig is Huntsman's favorite cartoon character. Ever. LOL I don't know why I'm actually surprised by this to be honest. :p
     
  12. The Huntsman

    The Huntsman Friend of Toon Zone

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    Every page that is written is a great addition to the wiki, regardless of how niche it is. I agree with you that some pages are of a higher priority than others, but people shouldn’t be made to feel like they made a mistake merely because they wanted to write up a page for characters that they’re familiar with. If you take a fan of “SpongeBob SquarePants” and ask them to write up a page for “Gargoyles”, chances are the page isn’t going to be as good as the page that they could have written for “SpongeBob SquarePants”. We all have our strengths and our weaknesses, and ideally, members should contribute to the pages that they are very comfortable with. We can always work together in order to get the other pages created.

    First of all, this isn’t Wikipedia. It may be a huge success, but copying it isn’t going to make us a huge success. We have to do things differently and I believe that allowing individual characters to have their own page is in our best interest. Obviously, there has to be enough information to warrant an individual character to have their own page, but I believe that I have provided ample information about the character.
     
  13. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    It's really vital to keep a firm structure of development. I appreciate the viewpoint of asking everyone to get stuck in and have fun but from my own experience running a Wiki it doesn't work too well. You need a clear plan, hence why most Wikis have 'WikiProjects', little sub communities to relating to topics which organize people to best generate and build those up. I'm not saying the Wiki here is a mess but it needs greater organization to pull ahead and really a page like this shouldn't be a focus. There are far more important things to establish first or the sheer amount of unrelated and unfinished articles will damage the project.
     
  14. The Huntsman

    The Huntsman Friend of Toon Zone

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    We’re in the process of getting things organized. We’re currently working on the FAQ in order to help users get on the same page and learn more about our objectives, and we plan to schedule several community chats in a couple of weeks in order to communicate with as many people as possible and see what they believe we should be doing with the wiki. We’re also hoping to get all of our help pages created so that users can learn how to edit the wiki without having to go to an external website.
     
  15. MonkeyFunk

    MonkeyFunk Kids and grown-ups love me so

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    Well, if anyone's interested, here's the rough structure I'm working with for my contributions -

    1: Add articles on the creators and distributors (be they individual animators, studios, or TV channels)

    2: Add articles on the cartoons made by each creator

    3: Add articles on individual aspects of the cartoons - characters, episode guides and whatnot

    Sort of a top-down thing.
     
  16. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    See, that's an excellent way to do it. Very well structured. That's the kind of approach everyone should be taking as much as possible.
     
  17. The Huntsman

    The Huntsman Friend of Toon Zone

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    There is no wrong way to work on a wiki, aside from the obvious ones. While that format is indeed structured, people are encouraged to work on any page that they want. The Toon Zone Animation Wiki will fail if the fun is taken away; people must be able to contribute to pages that they want to contribute to or they’re not going to contribute at all.
     
  18. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    I'm not attempting to take away fun. But I've tried that 'do as you please' approach myself and it made more problems then it solved. If you really have people working to a general plan and get the majority of people working togethor, then the stability and structure is there to branch out. Starting off with a clear plan will stop many problems that may otherwise later require a massive clean up.
     
  19. GWOtaku

    GWOtaku Moderator
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    That's a very good idea. There's definitely a lot of "this is show X and what it's about" articles disproportionate to the amount of information about creators, studios, etc. This is something we want to address.

    So far as characters go, obviously we're not going to stop anybody from writing about a specific character. If anyone is inspired to write, write! But focusing mostly on the titans at first is a good idea. For instance Mickey Mouse, Bugs Bunny, and Popeye are historically significant to animation. Mickey and Bugs put Disney and Warner on the map, so talking about them is something that would make sense to be doing alongside work on Walt Disney Studios and Warner Bros.

    Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming. Notes are being taken...
     
  20. HellCat

    HellCat Lesser spotted Brit
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    What about the format of the articles though? This is what concerns me, because I saw it happen with Gundamology. There really needs to be an established style and structure before telling people 'go nuts'. If you end up with a hundred odd entries that need to be reformated and/or rewritten to fit togethor, it obviously won't be pleasent.
     

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