C&C - Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron Blooded Orphans S2 - "The Trigger of Success" [11/4]

Discussion in 'The Adult Swim/Toonami Forum' started by Kitschensyngk, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. PapaGreg

    PapaGreg Peppermint tea for me

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    Umm said civilian got some of their men killed
     
  2. Master Knight DH

    Master Knight DH Active Member

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    Mikazuki pulled the trigger without a hint of emotion. That's the problem. He didn't even show any sign of outrage at the politician guy's BS. It's teeth-gnashing.

    It's even worse with Atra's "all or nothing" comment being made after this happens. I'm like...what? Okay, it's better than Annie's gushing over Jotaro saying the group should just abandon the driver of a truck he crippled in the middle of mountainside India in 1989. That isn't saying much at all, and it's still shallow. So she likes a guy just because he's fearless? What about general morality? Yeah there are points where Mikazuki's morality works, but it's not a healthy consistency.

    I speak as the guy who was going to do a commentary video about how I feel about involving bravery as one of my ideals in game balance because I'm doing that in the first place, before I stopped feeling safe about the idea because of the Advance Wars subreddit's load where it claims I deserved to be banned from there for what amounts to protesting against a sadistic member base exploiting an already busted ratings system. (My favorite part about that? Apparently, they were driven into being defensive by the same paragraphs I had to write to get around the aforementioned ratings system registering me as an apparent spammer.) Bravery isn't the only virtue, so why should guys be expected to have just that? It just overencourages having OTT, unrealistic bodies. Oh wait, I think I just answered my own question. Even though guys and girls alike should have a healthy balance of body, mind, and HEART.

    I get that Atra doesn't have the best upbringing, but have some sense, girl, especially if you're going to be a Harem Seeker--a female one no less.

    God, and I'm still reeling from the nonsense in tonight's episode of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, which yes hit a new low.
     
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  3. PapaGreg

    PapaGreg Peppermint tea for me

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    1. Mikazuki anger is mostly cold while he does get pissed he doesn't really show it
    2. Morality is subjective so your idea of morality is kinda different from a group of people who lived as illiterate child soldiers who got experimented on.


    You can do worse than Mikazuki the boy does care about her and helped her get a job with the bakery also he does treat her with respect.
     
  4. Master Knight DH

    Master Knight DH Active Member

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    That is true, but it still comes across as Protagonist Centered Morality. I think a good wife would guide her husband well, not enable him.
     
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  5. Radical

    Radical The Face of Evil & Epicness!!!!!

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    Season 2 episode 4 was pretty sweet,

    Julieta the new rival nemesis for Mikazuki.

    Sandoval/The Dawn Horizon Corps' well-deserved defeats while capturing Sandoval, sweet, go Mikazuki/Tekkadan:D.

    The complaining new Teiwez guy is easily gonna be a new enemy/threat for Tekkadan, he can't be trusted.

    McMurdo/Naze rewarding Tekkadan with Chryse's largest half-metal mine along with a Gundam Frame and a larger useful object was pretty sweet.

    Hush's important role begins on wanting to be a mobile suit pilot for Orga, sweet.

    Gyojan's satisfying death from Mikazuki was awesome, go Tekkadan:D, Gyojan getting destroyed so early is fine as much as they'll have another new horrible enemy for Tekkadan further episodes.

    Mikazuki so calm while killing the villains is still so creepy/unsettling though:ack:, while other anime protagonists do show anger while defeating horrible villains.

    Kudelia/Atra's moment was pretty sweet, nice of Kudelia to want a world free of bloodshed for Tekkadan.

    McGillis using Tekkadan to challenge his rival Rustal was clever in his selfish gain, Orga/Merribit meet McGillis for the first time, Mikazuki already met him with the funny creepy nickname for him, hehehe.
     
  6. PicardMan

    PicardMan Member

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    Mikazuki's actions really caused some controversy this episode. I don't know if we're supposed to see our protagonist as a hero or anti-hero, but his means are quite violent. Is Toonzone getting tired of dark and edgy anime on Toonami?
     
  7. Master Knight DH

    Master Knight DH Active Member

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    Having read about future episodes, I will say this (obviously spoilers for later episodes):
    At least Mikazuki's general attitude gets addressed. Unfortunately, there's going to be even more reason for Darkness Induced Audience Apathy.

    It's just frustrating to see our "heroes" basically be freaking mafia.
     
  8. PicardMan

    PicardMan Member

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    Our heroes seem to be "pay up or die" mercenaries rather than ideal heroes. Mikazuki is probably one of the darkest protagonists of Gundam.
     
  9. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I wouldn't really say that he was a civilian exactly. This wasn't just an innocent bystander during one of their battles. The was the man who setup an attempt on Kudelia's life and their battles to stop him resulted in some of their own allies being killed. I'm also not sure if they enjoyed it that much. I think Orga smiled, but they weren't laughing like villains or stepping on his body. They just killed him because he couldn't pay up and was going to cause more problems for them if they left him there.

    Mikazuki has basically been like that since the series began though. I'm not sure how this was worse than killing a general mid-sentence back in the first season. I agree that it's still pretty chilling to see him kill so coldly and with no remorse, but I think that's the point. They even mentioned during the first season that he may enjoy fighting/killing other people. They didn't really address it much then, but I hope that they do during this season, especially when Mikazuki is even more dangerous in his Gundam now.

    I might be more bothered by Atra's crush on Mikazuki if they didn't address it during the first season. While Mikazuki comes off as cold and distant, he also does care about people. He just rarely shows any emotions, but he was upset when Atra was kidnapped, would have probably killed more people for beating her up if they didn't have to run and was willing to defend her from one of the rookies just a few episodes ago. Not to mention his reaction when Orga and Biscuit were in danger right before Biscuit died said a lot about him. It's not particularly good or healthy to ignore Mikazuki's coldness when it comes to being a killer, but neither of them had particularly good upbringings. They were both orphans and Mikazuki was trained as a child soldier too. They aren't going to have the most ideal sense of morality after being raised like that.

    Probably, but I don't know if I'd call IBO a dark and edgy anime, or at least on the same vein as other shows described as such that have aired on the block. The show can definitely be dark considering it features children soldiers struggling to survive, but they aren't doing it for shock value or to be cool, hip and edgy like Tokyo Ghoul or Akame Ga Kill were. They actually address it and I'm pretty sure that we aren't suppose to admire the leads for killing people. Like you mentioned, they are more like mercenaries who want to be paid for their work and losses rather than ideal heroes who the audience is supposed to admire/look up to. Rooting for a character or a group of character to succeed in their goals isn't the same thing as admiring them or seeing them as role models.

    Anyway, I thought that this episode was pretty good. The battle was good, but it did end a bit faster than I expected. At least Tekkadan did manage to get the leader in like they wanted to, so they got more recognition for their work. Orga and Mikazuki going to kill the business man leader behind this was pretty intense, but they were in a tight spot. He already attempted to kill Kudelia and his actions resulted in some of their own men dying. They had to take some action to prevent him from doing this again. Killing wasn't their only option, but I can see why they went for that decision. He was still trying to sneak out of paying them right until the end, so he wouldn't have stopped trying to get what he wanted and continue to put their lives in danger as a result.

    I really liked the scene with Kudelia and Atra. Even though Kudelia didn't do anything wrong herself, she was still blaming herself for allowing more violence to continue. She wanted to stop the cycle of violence so that Mikazuki wouldn't have to kill more people. It just showed how responsible and passionate Kudelia is about her work. She wants to create peace, but violence and death follows her everywhere she goes. The idea of Kudelia coming down to the farm to help work with Mikazuki and Atra is a cute, if not extremely ideal ending for the group.

    Orga agreeing to team up with McGillis continued to make me think that his plans will backfire at one point. They did emphasize after the battle that there are some things that you can't get with just brute force and they're going to have to deal with politics beyond just killing their enemies, but joining with McGillis still seems like it could turn against them quite easily. Overall, it was a pretty good episode.
     
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  10. PicardMan

    PicardMan Member

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    Iron Blooded Orphans is definitely bleak, but it is smartly written compared to Akame ga Kill. I guess "edgy" has gone to mean "violence for shock value" rather than "intense subject matter." IBO would fall under the latter definition of edgy rather than the former. This show is still well-written but bleak.
     
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  11. Master Knight DH

    Master Knight DH Active Member

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    Well, I'll concede that yeah, context does play a definite role because there's a lot of it to go around. That Mikazuki isn't an outright sociopath and has his definite share of morality despite his shoddy upbringing, and that Atra would like him for that, I can definitely see that. It's that the scenes I, along with marklungo to a definite extent, was complaining about are easily taken out of context, contrast to what had happened with Lelouch vi Britannia, who it was consistently clear that we are always, *ALWAYS* supposed to question on his methods even though he both recognizes his means deserve it, and had ends that were generally noble or selfless.

    What is displayed by the scenes being taken out of context more easily than they should be? As I point out, a case of All Girls Want Bad Boys, which on my part is a VERY sore point. Since the topic is all but shelved and I'm not sure how much of this is going to relate to IBO itself instead of my own personal experiences, I may as well Spoiler Tag to at least reduce non-collapsible length. It may involve material that would be better off in a collapsible part anyway, ya know, just in case.

    So anyway, of course, there's a simple answer, that AGWBB invites that nasty little problem called "strength without compassion", always fun that is. I get it, girls want protection from bad guys out there. My problem is that at the very best, the whole focus on strength without caring about virtue becomes about demanding extremes, and often it stems from problems with the girl herself. Oh but wait, I just answered my question because there's always "fixing the guy" even though the guy can be unrepentant. Ugh.

    Let me talk about how (who else) Genki Girls get treated. They are treated as stupid, and sometimes that does get earned, but generally when that happens, that's from her being an outright stereotype. Otherwise, I have had this sleeping annoyance about this shameless philanderer, one who is far from afraid of saying things like "that's what she said", who I had known IRL before and who actually called a Genki Girl a brain-dead idiot behind her back. I'm like...what? Never mind that this Genki Girl does have her share of intelligence--I'm irked with her for outside reasons anyway; the aforementioned philanderer's behavior is basically indicative of him seeing women as little more than objects. I'm sorry, but going around calling them dumb arbitrarily while having your "fun" with them? WHAT? And he's not the only one I know who would pull this brand of treatment; I knew this user named MageKnight404 who has called Tia in Lufia: Curse of the Sinistrals a "dumb broad" in his LP of that game like it's just funny. The gaming communities are *RAMPANT* with people like these too, how fun.

    But ya know, maybe karma catches up with people like these. Yeah, uh, about that....you can call me a jealous loser until you're blue in the face, but you're not going to convince me that there is nothing wrong with how the likes of the philanderer can draw the opposite sex to him while I'm lucky if I can have decent conversation with females. Even better is that excuses are made for these sorts, but they just boil down to willful ignorance in desperation to arbitrarily get away from me.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about the apparent reason for that, the white knighting trope. You know, the trope where the guy a-OHWAITNOIHAVENTORIWOULDNOTBEMENTIONINGIT! Did people ever consider that maybe, just possibly, because it's a possibility that surely demands a ridiculous amount of faith to even catch a glimpse, that I am not fond of the notion of letting my own "ideas" of fun get out of hand. And I know some females actually wouldn't like the holding back, but I would want them to at least understand what they sign up for before placing a drop of the ink. If they can come up with their own useful touches, that would at least improve things.

    But of course, I have to learn the hard way how so many people are apathetic or worse, and don't want to try to make sure things improve. I know that unfortunately, California is riddled with outright brazen shallowness, so I can't even talk to somebody IRL about the mess.

    Yeah, sorry about that. Lots of anger brought about by Unfortunate Implications that come up more easily than they should be.
     

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