C&C - JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - "The Ascendant One" [4/15] (END OF PART 2)

Discussion in 'The Adult Swim/Toonami Forum' started by veemonjosh, Apr 15, 2017.

  1. Zeether

    Zeether Victory!

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    It was also Stroheim's fault Kars ended up as an ultimate life form, because they decided to shine the UV light projectors on him not knowing that he had the mask. I'm no fan of how they acted like his death was sad either, in spite of the hilarious Arnold voice he was a Nazi after all...

    What an ending though. Joseph's instinct sure pulled through for him and you gotta love how Sono Chi No Sadame kicked in during that whole scene. Now it's on to part 3, whenever Toonami gets to that.

    I find it odd though that old Joseph had an accent. I recall in the test dub for Part 3 he didn't seem to have one, or I just don't remember it much.
     
  2. Volthoom

    Volthoom Member

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    Part 3 will probably come to Toonami sometime after season 2 of Attack On Titan ends.
     
  3. J'onn J'onzz

    J'onn J'onzz Best Male Member '08

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    They might have to air Attack on Titan multiple times though in order to make their money back. That's what happened with season one. Tokyo Ghoul might be done before the second run of Attack on Titan. They can't move it to 3 am either, unless they remove Ghost in the Shell or expand Toonami.
     
  4. Volthoom

    Volthoom Member

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    Yeah AOT season 2 is apparently 12 episodes.

    Also I think Stardust Crusaders is gorier than Season 1(phantom Blood, Battle Tendency).
     
  5. J'onn J'onzz

    J'onn J'onzz Best Male Member '08

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    That's true, it was heavily censored on broadcast TV in Japan. But on Toonami it will be the uncut blu ray masters, same as season one.
     
  6. Volthoom

    Volthoom Member

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    Which means that one bit of really stupid censorship will not be present, I know Japan has an issue with showing teen smoking, but how they did it was really stupid looking.
     
  7. J'onn J'onzz

    J'onn J'onzz Best Male Member '08

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    I find it a bit weird. They don't have any problem showing Sanji smoking in One Piece. Then when you go over to shows like Naruto Shippuden, they removed Shikamaru smoking. Then Jojo's Bizarre Adventure edited Jotaro smoking. Maybe One Piece is grandfathered in because it started before the anime for Naruto and Jojo? Still, don't be surprised if Sanji starts sporting a lolipop like in the 4kids dub if One Piece lasts much longer.
     
  8. Nobodyman

    Nobodyman Well-Known Member

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    I think it's that they don't like to show kids or "underage" characters smoking. Sanji is safe since he's 19 and more of an "adult" character. Whereas Shikamaru was 15 or 16 and Jotaro is, apparently, 17.
     
  9. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    Yeah
    All those story elements were very problematic for me and hard to rectify especially after Stronheim becomes more of a hero toward the end of the arc.
     
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  10. J'onn J'onzz

    J'onn J'onzz Best Male Member '08

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    Teaming up with a bad guy to deal with a stronger common enemy isn't that rare in battle comics like Jojo. Eventually the author forgets the bad guy was a villain to begin with and just has them hang out with the main characters all the time. Look at how in the Namek saga of Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta teams up with Gohan and Krillin to fight the Ginyu Force and Frieza. Vegeta had destroyed entire planets and murdered their best friends when he and Nappa invaded Earth. Later on, they forgave him and in the current episodes of Kai airing on Toonami, you can see Vegeta hanging out with Yamcha who he had previously murdered with his Saibamen.
     
  11. Volthoom

    Volthoom Member

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    Yeah, so basically if the character is considered an adult then it is ok to show them smoking, but if they aren't considered an adult, then they will censor it.

    While Jotaro may not look 17 due to being so huge, that is due to the art style of the manga being very similar to that of Fist of the North Star. The art style changes in late Part 4 to be much slimmer. The anime adaptation of Part 4 uses the late Part 4 style.
     
  12. Zeonic Freak

    Zeonic Freak Make MD Geist Great Again!

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    So is Stroheim a worse or slightly better side character / villain than Vegeta? Vegeta is the Stroheim of DBZ if you compare the two in a way. Both work for a large force that were known evils to those who knew of them, both have treated people badly / murdered them, and both came in to clutch with the heroes of the show to defeat a greater enemy.

    I really would've liked to have known how Stroheim would've been useful to the Joestar family if his character was allowed to be alive. Light, I understand if people out there don't like Stroheim for being a Nazi, but did those people view Vegeta the same way when he came to help the heroes out in DBZ? Vegeta turned out to be a really good balance character for Goku, and the series does treat Vegeta as a great friend and ally, and they've totally forgiven him for his past actions. I would have like it if Stroheim got the same treatment in Jojo if he was allowed to stay on longer, that would have been really interesting.
     
  13. PicardMan

    PicardMan Member

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    The difference is that Von Stroheim kept his allegiance to Hitler. Vegeta betrayed Freeza. Maybe the writer wanted to have a cool yet amoral character. The 80s and 90s were filled with those, especially from Image Comics. I've got post this image. [​IMG]
     
  14. PapaGreg

    PapaGreg Peppermint tea for me

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    Fun fact there is a comic called "Diesal" in which the author plagiarized Stardust Crusaders

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Light Lucario

    Light Lucario Moderator
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    I don't think that the comparison with Vegeta works for a few key reasons. As PicharMan pointed out, Vegeta did betray Freeza eventually and he was never thrilled with working under him if I recall correctly even before learning about what happened to his home planet. Stroheim never had any problems with the Nazi party, was still determined to show that Germany was the best and he didn't abandon Hitler. Yeah, we never find out for sure that he was following Hitler exactly, but given his behavior during his first few episodes, I'd say it was at least pretty likely that he was.

    Vegeta killing people and destroying planets was bad and I have mentioned before that I think he was forgiven too easily in that series as well, but he wasn't glorified in the same way Stroheim was. Vegeta was still painted as an antagonist through a good chuck of DBZ. From his debut up until the Android arc at least he was still treated more like an antagonist. He was still a popular character, but I don't think that the author of that series tried to downplay Vegeta's terrible actions in order to make him more traditionally cool for the audience. He was still a considerable threat to the characters during most of the Namek arc and even when they did start fighting together, he wasn't exactly the best ally. Even when Vegeta is killed by Freeza, they played it more like it was sad that there was nothing despite being so prideful and determined more than simply making it sad that he was dead if that makes any sense. Unlike with Stroheim, Vegeta actually does change. Granted, I still haven't seen all of the Kai version of the Buu saga yet, where I think more of his development comes through, but he isn't focused on becoming immortal anymore, has settled on Earth and has actually developed more human feelings like compassion and love if what I've seen of Super is any indication. Maybe you could argue that Stroheim could have changed into a better person if he wasn't killed off and given the opportunities like Vegeta has, but I doubt that when he was pretty set in his ways and there was nothing to really trigger any change for him like there was for Vegeta. I do find it strange that they do forgive him eventually despite being responsible for many of their friends' deaths, but it is easier to do that when you can just wish them back to life. The people that Stroheim killed can't be brought back to life and he never showed any kind of regret for his actions as a Nazi soldier.

    But I think that the biggest reason as to why this comparison doesn't work in my opinion is simply the fact that Stroheim was a Nazi. There have been plenty of villains who have done terrible things, including killing people, but when you present a character as a Nazi, you associate some really horrible real world events with them. When I think of the Nazis, I think of the Holocaust, gas chambers, concentration camps, etc. WWII was a long time ago, but the effects of that war can still be felt through a lot of people today. There are still Holocaust survivors who tell their stories and how they were treated during that time of history. It also doesn't help that Neo Nazis are a thing as well sadly. It's different than presenting a humanoid alien destroying planets and killing people with lazer beams. One is more rooted in fantasty/sci-fi element while the other is rooted in a lot of horribly racist notions that did and continues to hurt countless people. That's basically why I can't just let Stroheim's actions slide, even with knowing that he was still helpful in the final battle, because of what actual Nazis have done to people.
     
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  16. Daikun

    Daikun Long Live the Fighter!
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    Vegeta turned over a new leaf. Von Stroheim did not. They don't compare.
     
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  17. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    Yeah it's really not a valid comparison at all. Vegeta's turn to the light side is a major part of his character throughout the Dragon Ball story. Stroheim also never stopped being a Nazi.
     
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  18. Kitschensyngk

    Kitschensyngk The kids are all wrong

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    And Yamcha was apparently cool with his ex-girlfriend having his killer's baby.
     
  19. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Peace Loving Shinobi
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    Yamcha used to be a bandit.
     
  20. Scrappy-Fan92

    Scrappy-Fan92 Well-Known Member

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    There's a pretty big gap between bandit and killer.
     

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