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"Batman Versus Robin" Feature Talkback (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'The DC Comics Animation Forum' started by James Harvey, Apr 7, 2015.

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"Batman Versus Robin" - Discuss and Rate this Movie!

  1. *****

    11.1%
  2. ****1/2

    22.2%
  3. ****

    11.1%
  4. ***1/2

    22.2%
  5. ***

    11.1%
  6. **1/2

    11.1%
  7. **

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. *

    11.1%
  10. 1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    The showdown that will define a destiny!

    [​IMG]
    Batman Versus Robin
    Studio: Warner Bros. Animation
    Release Date: April 7th, 2015 - Digital; April 14th, 2015 - Blu-ray/DVD

    Synopsis: Gotham City is no place for a child but Damian Wayne is no ordinary child. Now bearing the mantle of Robin, he blazes a headstrong and sometimes reckless trail alongside his father, Batman. While investigating a crime scene, Robin encounters a mysterious figure, Talon, who leads him on a life-altering course through the depths of Gotham's secret society, known as The Court of Owls. It's a dangerous journey that will force Batman and Robin to face their most dangerous adversary, each other! Based on the #1 best-selling graphic novel, Batman: The Court of Owls, Batman Versus Robin is one that fans won't want to miss!

    Television stars Jason O'Mara (Terra Nova, USA Network's Complications) and Stuart Allan (Son of Batman) reprise their roles as the voices of Batman/Bruce Wayne and Robin/Damian, respectively. Adding to the celebrity-laden voice cast is Jeremy Sisto (Law & Order, Suburgatory) as Talon, singer/songwriter/comedian Al Yankovic as The Dollmaker, David McCallum (NCIS) as Alfred, Grey Griffin (Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends) as Samantha, Sean Maher (Serenity) as Nightwing, and Kevin Conroy (Batman: The Animated Series) as Thomas Wayne.

    Discuss the Batman Versus Robin animated feature!

    Please post all discussions concerning about the Batman Versus Robin animated feature in this thread! Discussion on the Blu-ray/DVD/Digital release of Batman Versus Robin can be found in the proper talkback linked below.

    Related Threads:
    -Batman Versus Robin Animated Feature Review (Spoilers)
    -Batman Versus Robin Digital/Blu-ray/DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Court of Owls Comic Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Son of Batman Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Deluxe Edition Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part Two Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part One Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Year One Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Under the Red Hood Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Gotham Knight Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Arkham Origins Video Game Talkback (Spoilers)

    Note: Remember, this talkback thread is for discussion of the feature film. If you wish to talk about the home video release, please click on the appropriate link above. We appreciate and encourage discussion, but please keep your posts civil, relevant and insightful. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material, as we will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. And remember to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
  2. -batmat-

    -batmat- Active Member

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    It wasn't bad, but it wasn't really good for me either. Action scenes were great, but violence was taken at an unbelievable level. I mean, it's not the violence that bothers me, it's that the characters seem to endure it quite effortless (nothing as bad as Damian cutting himself through Deathstroke's swords in Son of Batman, but still that kind of moments, like then they stabbed Batman in the back with 2 huge knifes). Then there was some kinda lame dialogue between Damian and Dick, ''You're Dick Grayson, the first Robin. But I am his son'' Duh.... ever heard of the fiction rule ''don't make the characters tell each other what they already know''? And there's of course the ridicolous Batman line ''All right you sons of b*tches, get the hell out of my cave'' which was as bad as the Joker's ''b*tches'' line in Assault in Arkham. But most people seem to love this lines and moments so I guess I'm on the minority here. It's not that I don't like more violent and mature scenes, but this just feels forced and out of character. Under the Red Hood and The Dark Knight Returns are the perfect examples of PG-13 dialogue and violence that feels just right for the most part.

    I also felt quite underwhelmed with the villains. This big society of rich people that control everything from the shadows.... they didn't do anything in the film to show off about it. They seemed just meh to me, not developed or interesting enough.

    I did like Jason as Batman this time, I think he's getting better in the role, I did not like him in Son of Batman and I didn't care for it in the JL movies, but he did a much better job in this one. And it was a real treat having Conroy play Thomas Wayne. Though that made me want him as Batman right there! The rest of the cast was spot on, nothing bothered me.

    I liked the opening scene, with the Doll Maker, that was creepy and very good.

    Overall, nothing to get excited about. Story didn't grab me, action was good but over the top. Not much more. 2.5/5
     
  3. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    My sentiments exactly, I was not very happy with the film. Which is pretty much appropriate since this movie is almost as joyless as Flashpoint, easily mired into depression and angst.
     
  4. Hero Supreme

    Hero Supreme Mr Jinx No More

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    I actually loved The Flashpoint Paradox, so I preferred it to BvR. I will say, after an initial viewing, BvR was a step up from Son of Batman. I would land it for now in the good, not great tier of DC animated films along with such entries as Apocalypse, Throne of Atlantis, Superman vs the Elite, and Doomsday. and Unbound. Lots to enjoy, but missing the special sauce. The biggest problem is that the Court of Owls simply didn't live up to the standard of the comic and turned out pretty anti climactic. I did enjoy the Batman and Damian dynamics, the Dollmaker, and Talon. But as said previously, the violence was a tad ridiculous. I'm not criticizing the graphicness of it, rather that the severity of some of the injuries would have required super powers to overcome.
     
  5. BigFatHairyDeal

    BigFatHairyDeal Defender of the Universe

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    I don't read Snyder Batman, so it's not like I'm caught up on the "Court of Owls," but I suspect that the movie suffered from the relatively short run-time, as all non-Miller-based titles do.

    Overall, I thought it was kind of a weird movie, but still quite a bit of fun to watch. I do have to say the violence, and specifically, the recovery from all of the injuries, were really over the top. However, a lot of viewers tend to be sensitive to the site of blood on screen, but numb to blunt force trauma. The very best movie in the 2007-present line, Under the Red Hood, has that ridiculous fight in the bathroom in which Jason should've been messed up for life, but his injuries added up to little more than a few bruises on his face. The general consensus is that people's getting cut up is worse than getting beaten down with fists or other blunt objects, but I think that should change. Still, Batman vs. Robin probably goes too far. You'd figure after the museum scene, Batman would need a blood transfusion. Also, does anyone ever get a tendon ruptured? I did once; you need surgery to get back full function.

    I was never fond of making Damian having all the physicality of a full grown adult, so this movie loses a point or two from me in that regard. On the other hand, the animation was fluid and the fights were well-drawn with great angles. The stuff at the end was pretty sci-fi even for Batman that I was about to laugh it off as too corny, but it was too entertaining for me. Why not let Batman have Iron Man absurd weaponry?

    Also, since this is very much in continuity with Throne of Atlantis, this is what Batman gets for not answering his hails from the Justice League.

    Finally, I complain about Bat-god as much as anyone, but part of that which I described as "weird" about this movie is how vulnerable Batman seems. It's just not something I'm used to seeing, and while there should be an "Any Given Sunday" (that is, on any given day, a superior combatant can lose to a lesser-but-skilled one) component to these types of stories, there's a reasonable expectation for Batman not to get downed in some of these fights, unless there are some mitigating circumstances (e.g. Batman was weary from the battling in "Knightfall" before succumbing to Bane). Additionally, it's kind of annoying to see Damian then get the upper hand against an opponent who had just beaten Batman. He's still a 10- or whatever-year-old kid.

    I feel like the story could've been a little tighter, but I think a lot of that is because of the time constraint, and it's still mostly good. Definitely better than Batman & Son.
     
  6. Mostezli

    Mostezli Corroborating with EVIL

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    Jay Oliva did not disappoint. Any legitimate gripes I have goes to DeMatteis for this 'wack as usual' script
    ie the dialog could have been more engaging.
    This was obviously meant to be a more dramatic, dour & even thought-provoking flick.
    It's like Oliva is setting up great moments of tension & gearing the story to pay off towards heightened levels of emotion,
    but the actual outcomes are so dry, so formulaic...simply anti-climactic.

    Every pivotal exchange is painfully joyless no matter how hard Oliva tries to direct the viewer's attention to interesting symbolism.
    Like when Nightwing or maybe it was Damien looks at the old Robin suit, you can see his face reflected directly onto the mask.
    The same thing happens at Talon's hideout, only this time with one of Talon's suits. I haven't seen this kind of allusion in a DC movie in so long.
    Also, if future gun-toting Damien is Bruce Wayne's fear, then the man behind Talon is the viewer's and Damien's reality check!
    I know exactly what the movie's central theme is and it's just so well executed compared to recent attempts.

    The opening was exciting with Weird Al giving an alright performance as the Dollmaker,
    but I was let down by Robin not forming much of a rebuttal when Batman accused him of ripping the man's heart out.
    ~This other masked stranger did it!~Sheesh, how hard is that to say?

    The backstory is told once again, but what's new is relevant to establishing the false myth
    and personally relevant to how Bruce coped with his parents' death.
    I wonder how many more owls he had to kill?

    Nightwing was better utilized here and genuinely did more than just throw on some quips.
    Heck, he even got to actually show off his combat skills & get in on the final fight.
    Talon is the most complex villain we've had so far in the Tucker era and his character even grew within the movie!
    The Court of Owls as a whole was a serviceable threat. The Grandmaster twist was predictable.
    The twist at the end with Talon is kind of also predictable, but god dang it! Jay Oliva went all out!
    There was rational & reasonable build-up via backstory and the way he related to Damien to justify that twist.

    The fight scenes were amazing as expected from Oliva. Batman getting bruised and beaten this badly is a welcome addition,
    since it makes his limitations (same goes for Nightwing) and his implied childhood fear believable.
    Plus, his foes were NINJA ZOMBIES. Even with Parademons, he struggled quite a bit.
    Damien got severely pushed or knocked around...that's some serious child abuse.

    All in all, it was a good movie with great moments. This sequel is better, much better.
    If you're reading this James Tucker, have Ethan Spaulding direct the more kiddy stuff and find a better director to co-op with Oliva.
    Oh and hire writers with more qualified 'action-drama' backgrounds. I hear Hasbro Studios used to have several under its wing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #6 Mostezli, Apr 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2015
  7. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Makin' Whoopee!

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    It's no secret that I haven't been the biggest supporter/advocate of this DTV line since Bruce Timm stepped down over two years ago. The projects released since his departure have all been fine efforts, but were severely lacking in many areas and just seemed to be going through the motions. Outside of the few undeniable bright spots (The Flashpoint Paradox, Assault on Arkham), my interest has been slipping more and more. I keep hoping Tucker and Co. will find solid, consistent footing soon and so far this year, they seem to be doing just fine.

    The most important thing I can say about this movie is that, without a shadow of a doubt, it is much, much better than Son of Batman (a movie that has only gotten worse on repeated viewings). If you can, dismiss last year's dismal opening act and approach Batman vs Robin with fresh eyes. The film is highly effective in pushing the story forward, while giving us more time to spend with some of our favourite characters. As with most of these productions, the story is rushed, thanks to both a restricted budget and truncated running time, but it gets the job done for the most part.

    As the movie opens, we see Robin living up to his father's own nickname as ''world's greatest detective'', by hunting down the latest creep due to face justice (''not vengeance''). There's kids in cages, others as monsters/doll hybrids and a suitably eerie version of The Doll-Maker, who thinks he's helping the kids in his own twisted way. Basically, the usual stuff these DTV's have been trying to get away with lately. Despite much bravado from the Boy Wonder, the Doll-Maker is ultimately dealt with by a new face to the party... the mysterious and deadly Talon. Thus, Robin's curiosity is peaked and he goes on a tumultuous journey to find himself and the film throws implied sex, violence and swearing at us along the way.

    The script isn't perfect, but at least J.M. DeMatteis tries to infuse the film with some humour, heart and personality, amidst all the fighting and grumpy Batman moments (Boy, did Bats give Alfred a hard time in this one). The Court of Owls weren't as creepy as they could've been, but their essence was captured pretty successfully in the adaptation process, giving it enough fresh spins to keep it interesting for us comic book readers. The one thing I was glad they wisely decided against was The Talon being Bruce's half brother... it brought the story down a notch in the comics and it would have done the same here.

    The animation was simply stunning. Once again, Jay Oliva proves why he is a master in this field and turns out another great, slick looking animated feature on a ridiculous budget. You can see his fingerprints all over this one, especially with the fight choreography. The fights were wonderfully staged and highly dynamic without getting into ridiculous animé territory. There were a few moments that stretched believability when Batman staring falling from great heights and magically getting up again in seconds, but those are easily overlooked. It's the small touches, like when Batman hesitates to hug the child in the beginning of the film or when Alfred questions whether or not to put his hand on a young Bruce's shoulder, that really makes the film memorable.

    The 'answer-studio' delivers again, with fluidity and punch, but one complaint I do have is the way they animate mouths and mouth flaps. It's too animé influenced for my taste. It's hard to explain, but it's a small pet peeve of mine. It's particularly noticeable in the scene where Bruce is talking to the court.

    The voice cast was solid across the board, except for one weakness, and it's a significant one... Jason O' Mara. As a fellow Irishman, I should be rooting for this guy, but he simply isn't doing amazing work as The Dark Knight. He's fine, but fine shouldn't be good enough for Batman. I'm not someone who demands that Kevin Conroy voice Batman in every project WB animation produces, but if you are going to replace him, at least do it with someone that's GREAT. Andrea Romano has done this time and again with Diedrich Bader, Anthony Ruivivar and even Bruce Greenwood. So how did she manage to misjudge things this time around? I know he's slowly improving, but he still sounds lethargic and bored in his line readings. He was completely lacking in the ''Get the **** out of my cave'' bit. What should have sounded bad-ass, just sounded like a guy trying to be bad-ass. Plus, that bit at the end when he was threatening Talon sounded a little too Wolverine-like for my taste.

    Oh well, maybe I'll warm up to him as time goes on, because he's here to stay.

    Special shout-out to Conroy who gave a beautifully understated performance as Thomas Wayne, especially that moment in the unsettling flashback scene.

    This review sounds a little more negative than I intended it to be, but I'm just pointing out niggling flaws for the most part. You may love O'Mara and love the more animé-ish direction the animation is going, in which case... great! You'll have a ball with this one. Batman vs Robin combines a fun, intriguing story with top-notch animation/direction (Thanks again, Oliva!), to give us another exciting trip to Gotham City. It's certainly a step in the right direction and if they fix a few remaining problems, produce stronger/tighter scripts and work with O'Mara more, we could have something truly special with this continuity moving forward. Certainly if the story moves in the direction I think it is (Hint: Dick's going to have a lot more to do).

    It clearly doesn't reach the dizzying heights of Wonder Woman, Under the Red Hood or The Dark Knight Returns, but Batman vs Robin deserves a place on every fan's shelf.
     
  8. Luke Cage

    Luke Cage Member

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    I liked this one, but not as much as some of the earlier DTV's (Flashpoint, WAR, Throne).

    Plus side:
    Art, Animation, Fight choreography, Voice acting and overall general production was fantastic. Love the designs, look and feel of the thing. I hope they keep this production team together for many more DTV's.

    Drawback:

    Writing.

    The characters in the Batman centric DTV's are too similar. Batman, Talon, Damion, Ras, Talia (and even Alfred to a certain degree) all exude the same dry, monotone personality. I think I prefer the dynamic in the JL movies that allows different personalities and motivations to play off one another. With no Joker, or other "over the top" character to play against type, it gets a little boring.

    90 min plot is really one note: "Heroes shouldn't kill". Got it. (Damian wants to kill. Batman says no killing. Talon encourages Damian to kill. Damian doesn't kill, but wants to, then is forced to kill Talon but regrets it BECAUSE.......Heroes shouldn't kill.) Got it.

    The motivation of the court of owls isn't well developed. They want to kill their enemies with a zombie army? But when they knock out Batman with Gas, they don't kill him or check his identity?

    Talon kills the entire court of owls to be with Robin. Then attacks Batman with an army of zomibies to be with Robin. Then.....kills himself instead of the badly beaten Batman....to be with Robin??

    Nightwing is impaled through every extremity of his body and dragged across the room; Then wraps his wounds in Dr. Fate's magic medicinal tape to continue the fight.

    There are other head scrathing moments, but you get the point.

    Again, I did like the movie. Just hope they continue to get better with each effort.
     
  9. Srebak

    Srebak Member

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    The fighting scenes were good and the Court of Owls were good villains. But, i have to say, while i can understand the ending, it just didn't work for me, probably because i had a gut feeling that kind of ending was gonna happen.

    It's a little ironic though; last year, it was the Justice League movie (JL:War) that i didn't care for, despite the potential it had, while the Batman Movie (Son of Batman) was actually the one that i liked. Now, it's the Justice League movie (JL: Throne of Atlantis) that i (more or less) enjoyed, while the Batman movie was the one that had potential yet didn't sit well with me
     
  10. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    More thoughts later, but overall, I thought Batman vs. Robin was vastly superior to Son of Batman across the board.

    It was cool seeing and hearing the references and easter eggs scattered across the film. Still a bit jarring to see old YJ character and location designs reused.

    The ending was rather satisfying. I have to rewatch that similar scene but I think that part with Damian looking up at the monastery might have been in part a homage to Batman Begins. Hope that leaves the door open for more Bat Family to be introduced in the inevitable next Batman movie in 2016.
     
  11. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
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    For those interested, the The World's Finest review of Batman Versus Robin is now live on the site. Click on the image below to check out a look at both the animated feature and the Deluxe Edition Blu-ray release.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. #1 defender

    #1 defender Member

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  13. Troy Troodon

    Troy Troodon Well-Known Member

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    I said it before and I'll say it again. In my fair taste, it's better than Son of Batman sure, but that doesn't quite mean it's good. There is character development sure, but it feels rather weak and the intent for it feels rather forced if not contrived. The villain's motivation, while interesting, just falls flat later on, and that goes for the court of owls in general. (I mean in the movie, not the comics) And once more this film is just a prime example of what happens when people improperly produce projects if left unchecked and think that they know better than the audience does, witch such things like "the only way to make something "More Adult" is to add really intense sex and violence, vulgarer language, crude or raunchy humor, a depressing or gritty environment, and other shocking and dour material." Or simply thinking that making something darker and grimmer, or solely "Adult" will always be better than something lighthearted or for all audiences to enjoy.

    The animation is major step up, more fluidity in some scenes sure, only thing that could do further improvement on is the lip syncing, add more natural phonemes like movement and expression with the tongue and lower lip, that always bothered me with the recent dc animated projects.

    The music was... okay, kind'a bland really, not all memorable.

    Over all little or nothing was resolved here. But at least it's still better than it's predecessor.

    Score: 5.5 - 10
     
  14. -batmat-

    -batmat- Active Member

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    I agree with Troy. Everyone's been saying "it's better than Son of Batman" as if that was an achievment! I guess it leaves me scratching my head when I watch a movie and it doesn't do a thing for me (even being a Batman fan) and everybody else love it. I was specially surprised with regards like "not as good as the better movies in the DC line, like Assault on Arkham" when that one was one of my least favorites. To each his own I guess! Looking forward to Gods and Monsters
     
  15. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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  16. Lord Sidious

    Lord Sidious Active Member

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    Whoa!! This is great!! Better than Son of Batman.

    but dam!! I can't believe Talon mopped the floor with Nightwing and whoa! Did Talon just defeat the Batman??? Hmmm
     
  17. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Yes, have some.
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    Here's my review of the movie. In spoiler tags, because it's lengthy. In short, I really enjoyed the movie and I place it up there with Under The Red Hood as one of the better Batman movies of the line.
    To be fair, they were both injured already. I think at 100% Talon wouldn't have beaten them both.
     
  18. ABrown

    ABrown Active Member

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    Did Ed not do a review for this one? I thought he reviewed all of the DC Universe movies. Or did I just miss it?
     
  19. Ed Liu

    Ed Liu That's 'Cause I ATE IT!!!
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    No, I'm just behind. The review is live now, though. I actually really liked this one, even as lots of stuff in my head was saying, "You really shouldn't be liking this." I didn't seek out the comics that this movie was based on (especially because it seems like it's a mix of the "Court of Owls" storyline and the Grant Morrison "Son of Batman" stuff), so maybe walking in with few pre-conceptions about what it was about made it more enjoyable to me.

    Didn't much care for the figure in the deluxe set packaging, though.
     
  20. Frontier

    Frontier Moderator
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    Catwoman! Finally! That's a pretty good Selina design by Mr. Bourassa, and takes a lot of obvious influences from her modern design. A little surprised her costume's boots have heels though :sweat:.

    Batwoman is also cool. I wonder if they were used in this sequence, and were designed to begin with, because they were specified to be in the 666 vision or because there are plans for them in later Batman movies :ack:?
     

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