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"Batman Begins" Talkback, Part II (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jun 15, 2005.

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Rate and Comment "Batman Begins"

  1. *****

    122 vote(s)
    58.7%
  2. ****1/2

    58 vote(s)
    27.9%
  3. ****

    17 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. ***1/2

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  5. ***

    4 vote(s)
    1.9%
  6. **1/2

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  7. **

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. *

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  10. Just end, already!

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  1. Batman

    Batman Guest

    This is still my favorite Batman movie becuz I like that it is grounded in reality. I prefer that over the other ones. Batman was always my favorite hero because of how real it could be and I am not disappointed here. The actors are great and I like how they filmed the fight scene on the docks like a horror movie. It really gives you the idea of what Batman is going for. This was a great movie and my favorite live action one.
     
  2. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight

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    This is Best BATMAN movie ever made period .

    Can't wait to see The Dark Knight top this tonight @ Midnight .
     
  3. Movie06

    Movie06 Active Member

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    My number one favorite Batman film. This was the film that got Batman right. Thank you Mr. Nolan.

    And what can I say that's not been said about this film? I mean, everything about Batman Begins was just so full of awesomeness.
     
  4. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

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    The best live action portrayal of the character to date. Nolan really captured the essense of Bruce Wayne and his mission.
     
  5. Arkaron

    Arkaron Member

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    I agree that Batman Begins rocks, hard. But some aspects of the character were forgotten, like the fact that Batman is a detective. I'm looking forward to seeing this in The Dark Knight.
     
  6. Anarky

    Anarky Team Conan

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    They're showing this outdoors in the middle of downtown Seattle tonight, at Rainier Sq (moviesonthepedestal.com)

    I only had a few "complaints" about the film:

    1. Bruce becoming a criminal rather than a true student on his world tour*

    2. Luscious Fox being the weaponer instead of Bruce*

    3. the choppy fight scene at the docks

    * I feel as if this takes away from the character, minor compromises however
     
  7. Wolf Boy2

    Wolf Boy2 Active Member

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    Wow, 2005 was the Year of Batman for me. I got my BTAS boxsets, saw this movie, read a lot of the comics ..... it was a Golden Age.

    Unlike the hype surrounding "Batman and Robin" or "Superman Returns", this was one instance where the feature film (the center of the hype) was truly worthy. I'm not going to say that it was better or worse than BTAS, because they are too different to be compared. But BOY DID IT KICK ASS. Seeing Batman Begins was a fitting close to the several month Batmarathon I had been on, watching BTAS, ROTJ and MOTP. I was not dissapointed.

    Though, I know a lot of other people who thought it was really boring. Hopefully "The Dark Knight" will change their minds about that.
     
  8. The Old Maid

    The Old Maid Voice in the wilderness

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    Forgive the necropost (necro response?), but it's an interesting point because it's a timeless one. Actually it was the inspiration for the "Normals" thread: what is the difference between an ally (who is presumed "old enough to know better") and a sidekick who grew up with weirdness?

    If memory serves, you mentioned once that Robin doesn't translate well overseas, or even translate well among his age-mates at home. Robin touches on several incompatible phenomena, and often even one of them is hard to write for. Robin as marketing gimmick: to attract customers. Robin as sounding-board: to give Batman feedback, perspective, a legacy. Robin as rival: to raise the question of whether Batman has a "right" to a legacy. And then there's Robin as "Mary Sue" before the term had been invented: an idealized version of the writer who is introduced to the story to interact with the hero, thus warping the hero's world into a world where Mary Sue is needed. Some readers loved Robin; still do. Others resented him, because while they could fantasize about growing up to be Batman, they knew they couldn't keep up with the genius kid right now; the fantasy was ruined for them.

    Allies may be a lot of things, but Mary Sues aren't supposed to be among them. So, was the Jim Gordon of Batman Begins a Mary Sue, a sidekick, an ally, or something else?

    We see some versions in which Jim Gordon is brought into the circle slowly (1930s comics, BTAS), some in which he already is included when the audience meets him (first Burton film), and occasionally an apocalyptic version in which Jim Gordon is becoming separated from the circle ("Dark Knight Returns," "No Man's Land," TNBA "Over the Edge," though that was a dream sequence). Batman Begins tries to have it both ways, with Batman approaching Jim first, but Jim being hesitant to join, until the night all the wheels come off and there's no time to think, "What am I doing?!"

    As for one of the other allies, I didn't care for the Dawes character AT ALL. Odd, that, since the role wasn't badly written (aside from the character being too young to be the assistant D.A., and of course the unconvincing love story). If we'd dropped Harvey Dent into the plot, and excluded the love story and the tasers (does not remind me of Dent), we would have noticed the writing. But because of the character, the love story, and the actress, the role was hard for me to watch. Very much not thrilled that the character is coming back, even with a different actress.

    And yes, the science was iffy. I'm sure Bruce's original dosing in the mountains was not boiled to 400 degrees. But more than that, if the bad guys could boil water in a pipe 30 feet underground, why didn't it microwave the water in all the people? We are "bags of mostly water," after all. (That's a ST:TNG season 1 line, one of the better ones, anyway.)

    But in the end, one of the reasons we hold this film to such scrutiny is that 1) it's a dynasty-founder, and if we don't speak up now we won't be able to change the dynasty's course. And 2) a lot of us have been spoiled by the animated continuity. :D
     
  9. Arkangel

    Arkangel Member

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    Great movie, no doubt, and shows what you can do with a good adaptation of a great comic book. Batman: Year One is my favorite Frank Miller Batman story, even more that DRK.
     
  10. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight

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    After seeing TDK, I have even more now such an incredible appreciation for BEGINS which has Rejuvenate The BATMAN Franchise it an epic series of films that give THE DARK KNIGHT , the respect and honor he truly deserves .
     
  11. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    Batman Begins aimed at 10-12 years old as well

    Replying from this post:

    http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=3044843&postcount=22

    I'll answer your question here because I think it's more appropriate.

    What is written in this text on Wikipedia is: While making an adult film for Batman, Nolan didn't want to exclude the 10-12 years old crowd for its target audience.

    It makes sense. The scene where Batman is spotted by a kid in the Narrows When Batman is searching for the source of the drug stuffed toys was clearly written to make Batman Begins more palatable to the younger audience. The return of that same kid in the end of the movie, when Rachel protects him from the Scarecrow makes that theory stronger in my opinion.
     
  12. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    However, they aren't pandering to the younger crowd. This movie also had to sell toys, you'll remember.
     
  13. Cortez2301

    Cortez2301 Active Member

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    Oh so basically it is a movie written for adults (mainly the 15+ audience) but also includes the 10-12 year olds right?

    My english isn't that great so I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
     
  14. KYO'NYUU IMOUTO

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    I'm saying overall the film's not kiddy-fair, or basically family-safe. While primarily a film for the more mature audiences, it is partially made to sell toys. It's not an insult, just a truth.
     
  15. Young Justice

    Young Justice Silent Master Apprentice

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    I agree, but I think the kid scene makes the film weaker. I think it would be better if it was taken of the final cut of the movie.
     
  16. Cortez2301

    Cortez2301 Active Member

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    I don't take that as an insult.As long as he didn't intend it to be a kid's movie, I'm fine with it.
     
  17. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

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    With The Dark Knight now available on home video (talkback), there's no better time than now to look back at the film that started it all!

    [​IMG]
    "I seek the means to fight injustice. To turn fear against those who prey on the fearful." - Bruce Wayne

    Release Date: June 15, 2005 (With June 14th Midnight Showings)
    Studio: Warner Bros. Pictures
    Director: Christopher Nolan
    Screenwriter: David Goyer, Christopher Nolan
    Starring: Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, Ken Watanabe, Katie Holmes, Cillian Murphy, Tom Wilkinson, Rutger Hauer

    Plot Summary: Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins explores the origins of the Batman legend and the Dark Knight's emergence as a force for good in Gotham. In the wake of his parents' murder, disillusioned industrial heir Bruce Wayne (Christian Bale) travels the world seeking the means to fight injustice and turn fear against those who prey on the fearful. He returns to Gotham and unveils his alter-ego: Batman, a masked crusader who uses his strength, intellect and an array of high tech deceptions to fight the sinister forces that threaten the city.
    Comments?

    Related Threads:
    -Batman Begins DVD/Blu-ray Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Begins Soundtrack Talkback (Spoilers)
    -The Dark Knight Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -The Dark Knight DVD/Blu-ray Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Gotham Knight Feature Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: Gotham Knight DVD/Blu-ray Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman (1989) Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Returns Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Forever Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman & Robin Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Catwoman Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Motion Picture Anthology DVD Talkback (Spoilers)

    Welcome to Part II of the ongoing discussion on Batman Begins! Click here to read Part I!

    Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, so please keep your posts as civil, thoughtful, relevant and insightful as possible. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material and make sure to keep the discussion ON-TOPIC! We will issue warnings if we believe it necessary.
     
  18. Wonder Woman

    Wonder Woman Well-Known Member

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    I was watching Batman Begins over the weekend on the movie channel and I was thinking about how easily this movie could have been divided into two movies, or at least the first half given its own movie. It’s really interesting to see Bruce Wayne going abroad to learn how to become Batman and the first hour or so is really great at that and setting up Bruce becoming Batman. The first movie could have easily ended with Batman’s first night in the cowl and the second one picking up where that leaves off. I always thought that while Batman Begins is a great movie, the second half is a bit weaker than the first. Maybe expanding on that would have helped fixed up the faults of the movie.
     
  19. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight

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    Out of all the actors that have hand the opportunity to take on The Mantel of The Bat in live action genre . IMO none of them really captured the true essence of the character of both Batman/Bruce Wayne in their performances that even comes close to match Batman in the comic universe .

    That is until Batman Begins...Christian Bale brought new life & energy to The Caped Crusader of Gotham City in his performance. As Batman he is the Dark and brooding Crusader fighting injustice to protect the innocent . As Bruce Wayne he's plays the billionaire playboy role with flying aces . I love the way he portrayed Bruce in this movie - right before your eyes you saw him go from the lost college student to the angry young man to the jack-ass public playboy to fierce, brutal Batman to the real Bruce Wayne. Those are a lot of faces to "wear" and a lot of characters to convey across to the viewer and he did it flawlessly. He really did seem to delve into the troubled, disturbed psyche of the character Bruce Wayne who had to create the Batman to maintain his sanity.

    He also creates two different voices to throw off any connection to Batman / Bruce Wayne . Bale's interaction with Cain's Alfred & Oldman's Gordon is spot on prefect it's like they came straight of the pages of the comic books .
    Bale is true to The character of BATMAN.(The only other one that's done this is Kevin Conroy in Batman : The Animated Series, who is the established definitive voice of Batman period. )
     
  20. rggkjg1

    rggkjg1 Batman v Superman

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    10 years later....

    Before the movie was released and in production, I was excited but I had some feelings of indifference twards some of what I saw. First, I was skeptical the movie was even actually getting made since we went through all those years of other rumored films that (thankfully) never got made. My skepticism ended when the official website was launched and we got our first official picture during production. The first picture was the front and back of the Tumbler. I knew exactly what they were doing (the tank from The Dark Knight Returns), but I was hoping (and still hope to this day) the Batmobile would have looked like a CAR. Then when we first saw the Batsuit, I was somewhat let down that they were just doing a solid black suit again. I think everything more or less went up on the excitement level when the first pictures of the cast as their characters were released. Oldman as Gordon looked EXACTLY like Jim Gordon. From that moment on, I didn't "question", "wonder", "ask why", etc with everything that we would hear about.

    There was also of course that fake casting sheet where T. Welling was playing Kent. Meanwhile, as Batman Begins finished shooting and went into post production, my most anticipated movie of all time Superman Returns was in early development.

    Before its release as all the ads and trailers aired, I remember one of my friends say it looked horrible. Of course I said WHAT??!!! He explained that it was stupid that Batman goes to Tibet and didn't get the flaming Scarecrow horse. I then said, "well, where did you think Batman went to train to be Batman? The local dojo? The flaming horse isn't real, Scarecrow uses fear gas and the person thinks they are seeing a flaming horse.". Of course to this day he has yet to see Batman Begins even though he's seen it's two sequels. :shrug: Another of my friends questioned Batman causing all those police car crashes. I explained "Oh, its ok. They're most likely corrupt cops.".

    Opening day arrived and I sat in excitement and awe in what I was seeing. I felt everything was "right". THIS is how he trained to be Batman! This is EXACTLY what happened and how it's SUPPOSED to be (comic source material). I didn't get Joe Chill getting caught, and eventually killed. Why would Bruce become Batman if his killer was caught hours after his parents died? They semi address that, but we all know Joe Chill never gets caught. Except in the assorted stories I cant keep track of where Batman eventually catches him and still stays Batman after he is brought to justice.

    Anyway, the movie progresses. As Bruce returns to Gotham, we first see the Scarecrow. I knew WHY Scarecrow was in the movie (doing NEW villains instead of doing previous ones again). I was semi skeptical of the Scarecrow as a villain in the movie because I feel without his fear gas, he's a wimp and can't really do much if anything without it. I guess you could argue that here as well. Regardless, as it turned out, Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow is the GREATEST PORTRAYAL of a Batman villain on film. Are any of the other villains in the trilogy in ALL three movies? No. When we first see Crane, we can tell by looking at him and the tone of his voice that he's evil. The thing I like the most is that he's so casual about it. It's not over the top, he doesn't go out of the way to show it, and it's not even subtle. I feel the portrayal of Captain Cold in The Flash is somewhat similar (being casual about him being a villain at least), and that's why I like that portrayal of Cold in the show.

    So the film continues and the exact moment where I was all in even more. Or the exact moment that had me sold on this movie and the future of the franchise. Or the exact moment where if the film ended there, I would be completely satisfied. Etc. The first thing Batman says when we clearly see him for the first time is "I'm Batman". 'Nuff said.

    I'll just skip right on to the final scene of the movie with Gordon and Batman. If I had to narrow it down to just one scene in the entire trilogy where what we see IS EXACTLY BATMAN. Or has you think THIS IS BATMAN. This scene would be it. The banter between Gordon and Batman says it all. Their facial expressions say it all. Their alliance is more solid than ever and they will be allies forever. One of the most impressive things about Batman Begins and the trilogy is the allegiance between Batman and Jim Gordon.

    While semi ending on a cliff hanger, the final scene and ending works for me even if there wasn't a sequel. We KNOW the Joker is Batman's arch enemy. The traditional Batman working with Gordon and the Police is now established. Crane gets away, but at that point he made his full transition to Scarecrow. At the film's conclusion, we can use our own imagination to what happens after because generally we all KNOW what is to become of Batman and what will be coming down the line for Batman.

    Once the film concluded and I walked out of the theater, what else could be said than "Best. Batman. Movie. Ever."? 10 years later it still is. I saw Batman Begins a total of 3 times that summer. I think that was the first time ever saw a movie more than once in the theater, if it wasn't, it definitely was the first time I saw a movie 3 times in the theater.

    With Batman Begins finally released, Superman Returns only one year away, V For Vendetta to be released (originally) on November 5th 2005, Watchmen in development at Paramount for a 2006 release, an assumed/rumored Joss Whedon Wonder Woman movie for 2007, and the obvious sequel to Batman Begins, the future of DC comics on film looked to be very promising. 10 years later, the future of DC is indeed very promising. ON TELEVISION ONLY.

    Batman Begins is a solid
    5 out of 5 stars
    10 out of 10 stars
    A+
    100% out of 100%
    #1 on a list of Batman movies ranked best to worst
    #2 on a list of comic book/superhero movies ranked best to worst
     

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