1. We are looking for a volunteer to help out with entering the DC and Marvel comics solicitations. If you are interested, please contact Harley.
    Dismiss Notice

"Batman Begins" Talkback, Part II (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'DC Live-Action Movies and Television' started by James Harvey, Jun 15, 2005.

?

Rate and Comment "Batman Begins"

  1. *****

    122 vote(s)
    58.7%
  2. ****1/2

    58 vote(s)
    27.9%
  3. ****

    17 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. ***1/2

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  5. ***

    4 vote(s)
    1.9%
  6. **1/2

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  7. **

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  8. *1/2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. *

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  10. Just end, already!

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  1. stwasm

    stwasm Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Batman Begins" perfectly captures the essense of what a tortured soul Bruce Wayne really is. Bruce becomes Batman to soothe his pain and guilt over his parents' deaths -- for which he blames himself. But, that, my friends, is the paradox. He'll never "get over" their deaths. Thus, this is his way of punishing himself for that. Batman, in reality, is a curse for Bruce Wayne, even though he's ridding the streets of Gotham's worse criminals.

    Excellently done, and I'm looking forward to the sequel.
     
  2. Knight

    Knight Emerald Knight

    Joined:
    May 2, 2001
    Messages:
    7,746
    Likes Received:
    1
    Speaking of sequel I do hope that they improve the one thing that I found irritating about the movie which was the fight scenes. I would like to be able to actually see whats going on. Pretty much every fight was a blur.
     
  3. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    0
    All I want is a little less cliche dialogue. I wish Goyer would just stop trying to be so deep because I think quite a few sections of this movie came off as really tacky and melodramatic, and they kept slapping the audience with its themes. By the five hundreth time around, I get the "fear" thing. Thank you!
     
  4. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Messages:
    41,394
    Likes Received:
    578
    The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences announced today that Batman Begins is one of the seven films in consideration for Achievement in Visual Effects for the 78th Academy Awards®. A list of all seven movies can be found here. Fifteen-minute clip reels from each of the seven films will be screened for the Visual Effects Award Nominating Committee on Wednesday, January 25. At this screening the members will vote to nominate three of the seven films for Oscar® consideration. Good luck to Batman Begins!
     
  5. Phantasm

    Phantasm Bittersweet Symphony.

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,881
    Likes Received:
    0
    YAY!For BAtman Begins.:)
     
  6. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's no way it can win. Not to be a pessimist, but the effects in BB were few and far between, and used to a minimum...personally, i thought they looked kinda obvious anyway. Sad to see it got no other noms. Cillian Murphy got nominated for Best Supporting actor at the English Oscars and Chris Nolan got a nom for Best Director.
     
  7. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    0
    I watched this with a friend of mine the other day and they pointed out an ENORMOUS continuity error that I just can't believe I hadn't noticed before; the fear drug is in Gotham's water supply for a while before the big scene where R'as uses the microwave generator to vaporize the water. The drug only is harmful when breathed in. Fair enough. But it's kind of hard to believe that nobody in the entire city boiled a pot of water to make pasta, made tea, or took a hot shower. I'm surprised this never occured to Goyer as he wrote this.
     
  8. The Guitar Slayer

    The Guitar Slayer 1965 to Eternity

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2001
    Messages:
    3,956
    Likes Received:
    0
    Water is constantly evaporating and condensing at any temperature. However, it's only at the extremes of boiling and freezing that it's really noticeable and visible. Ra's using the microwave generator likely gave the gas the uber shot of heat, not to mention radiation, that it needed to get up and go. Basically, all that water went from water to vapor nearly instantly. This doesn't happen when you stick a cup of soup in the microwave. This indicates the temperatures and radiation in Ra's machinery was WAY more powerful than your standard water boiler/microwave. The boiling point for water is 212, but if it takes until, say for the sake of argument, 402 for it to be instantly vaporized, then the gas won't be active or effective til 402.
     
  9. James

    James Administrator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 5, 2001
    Messages:
    31,316
    Likes Received:
    3
    I've just watched BB on DVD again. As DarkAngel suggested. :p

    Certainly enjoyed it more. In particular how the whole story is as much about the engineering of Ra's masterplan as it is about Bruce.

    Yes, Silly, funny you should mention that as it was a question which came up in my family viewing half hour back.

    I still have a problem with the finale. It's way to contrived and convoluted. The water pipes heading to Wayne Building along the monorail seems spectacularly plot trodden, and the device which exploits this using the most silly physics just seems too much. You could get away with that in Adam West's film, or even Burtons, both being far more fantasy by intention, but in this film, it's just too... well, silly.

    I still dislike the Gordon driving the Batmobile. It's again, just too set up and works out too easily, too much on time and just too convienient. It would have been more plausible if the mobile was preset to go to that position, or if Bats had set up explosive to take out the monorail prior... (showing his strong strategic mind), but this was just too planned.. too, well, Hollywood. For a film which took an hour before Batman appeared, this seems to defy all efforts to fight the "blockbuster" ethos. Hollywood got it's nails in.

    That said, the demise of Scarecrow came off better on a second run. I see your point DA. I still don't like the joker card at the end. It's just too crass for a film which tries to take an elaborate concept and make it believable.

    My other hate is Katie Holmes. She is so superfluous the character admits in the end, her chemistry with Wayne is defunct and pointless. She doesn't need to be there as love interest. Hollywood needs to throw in a beautiful actress I know. They need to pull in the men and of course, clarify the hero isn't gay (always a big concern in any mainstream movie), but it again, felt crass for such a concept.

    I don't blame Nolan and co for these choices. This is a hollywood mainstream film, concessions have to be made. The ending was very Hollywood, lacking the subtlety of Batman.

    Still a good film. I enjoyed the movement of Wayne's character again and Caine truely is the surprise casting gem. Some lines would sound melodramtic from another actors mouth, but he really draws you in. Freeman is excellent, Rutger does his job well and Bale really does a solid performance. Oldman could be out of the comic.

    A damn good film on second review, but yes, it's lacklustre inbuilt Hollywood devices (the need for a lead lady, the need for an explosive countdown epical things exploding ending, the need for the crass "Joker card" ending) claw it down, often making the audience - or at least me - feel as if I'm being treated as an idiot who should have left is brain at the door.

    Not as consistant as Batman, but far closer to source and it does a tough job in trying to make Batman "real", an issue Burton deftly avoided by making it fantasy. Still a good film, sorry, still have gripes though. :)
     
  10. ManicWebb

    ManicWebb You were cold as ice...

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,948
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't forget the overuse of the word "theatrics." Jeeze, how many times did characters bring that word up?
     
  11. DarkAngel

    DarkAngel Lord Vader

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    6,103
    Likes Received:
    22
    I can see that. For me, it's not that big a deal and something I can easily overlook. The end result is more important to me than the actual mechanics and whether they're accurate or not in this case.

    It didn't really come across as a smooth ride there for Gordon (not that easy, in other words), and the Tumbler was feeding him directions in terms of where and when to turn, so I don't find anything unreasonable about him getting there in time and don't have much problem with this, either. And I do like that it shifts some of the city-saving to Gordon, allowing Batman's attention and focus to placed almost entirely on his personal conflict with Ra's.

    I don't see the problem.

    What I loved is that, in the end, she wasn't the love interest. Bruce was focused on creating Batman and fighting the criminal presence on Gotham. Rachel was focused on putting away Falcone, and didn't care for the person Bruce seemed to have become. By the end, when she does realize who he is and what he's chosen, they both realize it cannot be.

    I thought that was great. They weren't involved in any actual sense. There was emotion there, but underneath and ultimately never realized.

    Emphasis above is mine, of course. I didn't feel like I was being insulted, treated like an idiot, or that I should have left my brain behind. I had issues initially, nearly all of which have disappeared. I have "Begins" firmly ahead of "Batman", and slightly ahead of or possibly tied with "Returns".
     
  12. James

    James Administrator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 5, 2001
    Messages:
    31,316
    Likes Received:
    3
    However when the tension relies on the mechanics, it can IMO affect the result. It just felt way to elaborate and set up and again, IMO could have been constructed to function in a far less artificial manner.

    Which again creates the question, why bother have Gordon in there. If it functions virtually on it's own, and Gordon's ability to virtually immediately get to grips with the situation somewhat unbelievable, why bother? It's not the sort of role the character was created for and doesn't IMO keep the film feeling credible. If it overcomplicates an ending, and a finale should be slowly fine tuning the drama into a focus of intensity not scrabbling to create further complications, why do it. To me it was superfluous and unnecessary use of Gordon in a role which doesn't suit his role in Batman. It oversteps his tenuous fence walking between supporting the law and turning a blind eye to Batman. That's what he's about, and while if forced into such a situation, I could see him being involved in such a way, it doesn't excuse writing a situation which betrays the point of the character. If they want a Robin, then get one, don't utilize other characters to work in that function. :)

    But there we go, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

    That was a one up. I was glad they didn't betray the character by pairing up. I didn't like her inclusion. The role she had would have been a perfect and substantial role to start Harvey Dent in, but that natural choice was betrayed for the probably studio mandatory need for a female role.

    So I don't knock Nolan and co for the role, they probably had little choice, and they also know that a famous sex symbol will draw a certain audience. As a person who doesn't watch films for needless romances and sexy women/men, I find such inclusions into a story irritating, but recognize the mainstream requirement. On the basis that there HAD to be a sexy lead female, I agree, the ending at least didn't betray the film and kept the required girl role. It's a pity the industry requires such rules as it would have been a perfect friendship set up for Wayne and Dent.

    To me it was too much. It just wasn't needed. The point was made quite eloquently by Gordon and I just didn't feel the need for the Joker card to sledgehammer the point. It just felt crass and obvious. This along with the last twenty minutes felt like Hollywood jive. It's the sort of final coda I would expect from Batman Fowever or Batman & Robin which do their best to lump in as many Batman source references as possible. Whether Joker is in the next film doesn't really make any difference. The line added nothing to this film and I'm sure if this wasn't so genre orientated, any other director would have removed it. But that's me. Clearly I'm weird. :p
     
  13. FroBro

    FroBro Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    the sequel - isnt it supposed to come out in 2008? because ign filmforce has it listed to come out in 2007. should i be excited or are they just wrong? if it actually did come out in 2007 my guess it would be late in the year.
     
  14. Silly McGooses

    Silly McGooses Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2003
    Messages:
    8,687
    Likes Received:
    0
    2008, and perhaps later.
     
  15. FroBro

    FroBro Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    oh well. ill just watch batman begins another million times.
     
  16. MR.MXYZPTLK

    MR.MXYZPTLK Mild Mannered Reporter

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just bought the DVD and thought I might give another, more positive review.

    There were many reasons why I didn't like Batman Begins when I first saw it. Mainly, when BB came out I was lossing interest in batman, and becoming more interested in GreenLantern and Superman. But, watching this movie again I enjoyed it a bit more, but I still can't undertstand the huge fanbase for the film.

    The origin is done well, but I couldn't help but feel how slowly the movie was going. Bruce being in jail, being taught by Ra's, didn't really interest me. Infact, I found the whole first half needed some editing.

    I did like things like alfred and Gordon. Infact, all actors were cast superbly. I also liked the villains chosen, Scarecow and Ra's Al Ghul were good choices, it was good to see somehing more than just the Joker again. I also really liked how Scarecrow was done, he did seem kinda scary, and Ra's Al Ghul had a few memorable quotes.

    Still, I can't even remember the main theme, and I only really enjoyed the second half. The villains were done well, but they did seem a bit toned down, especially scarecrow.

    There were some cool fight scenes, the Alfred, Bruce scenes were perfect, the villains were done quite well, and I thought the climax was pretty cool. It is certainy a good film, and better than I originally felt when walking out of the cinema, but I don't consider it a landmark or masterpeice, and have no intention of watching it again.

    Still, its a good movie, but as far as origin story's go, I'd say I prefer Spiderman and Donners Superman:The movie, but, the best batman movie yet, anyway. ***1/2
     
  17. dc_gothamite

    dc_gothamite dead is dead

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2001
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    just watched it again on DVD, after watching my DCAU dvds... so to kill viewing time until I get the new JLU and BB dvds, i dusted off this lil gem.

    still. love. it.

    What hasn't been said about the movie? The entire cast does their job, and they do it well. Bale was a great Batman.

    As Knight said, the fight scenes are a little bit jarring, but they're not that bad. As far as the dialogue goes, it's no more "cliche" as the stuff found in the two Spider-Man movies, which are praised to no end as well...

    Fear the Knight... I'm out. :D
     
  18. FireWarrior

    FireWarrior The Ultimate Warrior

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've always loved this movie (as you can tell from my avatar!). After being disappointed by the last two Batman films I was pretty excited they were going the origin route. I love origin movies. In my humple opinion I always feel that origin movies are required for superhero films since it allows the audience to connect more with the hero and understand why he/she became a hero. Not to mention unlike the Burton films, this movie was ABOUT Batman for once. Definitely ranks as my personal favorite Batman film.
     
  19. James Harvey

    James Harvey The World's Finest
    Staff Member Administrator Moderator Reporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2001
    Messages:
    41,394
    Likes Received:
    578
    With the The Dark Knight upon us, let's take a look back at the film that (re)started it all, Batman Begins!

    [​IMG]
    "I seek the means to fight injustice. To turn fear against those who prey on the fearful." - Bruce Wayne
    Release Date: June 15, 2005 (With June 14th Midnight Showings)
    Studio: Warner Bros. Pictures
    Director: Christopher Nolan
    Screenwriter: David Goyer, Christopher Nolan
    Starring: Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, Ken Watanabe, Katie Holmes, Cillian Murphy, Tom Wilkinson, Rutger Hauer
    Genre: Action, Crime
    MPAA Rating: PG-13 (for intense action violence, disturbing images & some thematic elements)

    Plot Summary: Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins explores the origins of the Batman legend and the Dark Knight's emergence as a force for good in Gotham. In the wake of his parents' murder, disillusioned industrial heir Bruce Wayne (Christian Bale) travels the world seeking the means to fight injustice and turn fear against those who prey on the fearful. He returns to Gotham and unveils his alter-ego: Batman, a masked crusader who uses his strength, intellect and an array of high tech deceptions to fight the sinister forces that threaten the city.

    Comments?

    Related Threads:
    -Batman Begins Soundtrack Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman (1989) Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Returns Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Forever Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman & Robin Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Catwoman Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman: The Motion Picture Anthology DVD Talkback (Spoilers)
    -Batman Begins DVD Talkback (Spoilers)

    Welcome to Part II of the ongoing discussion on Batman Begins! Click here to read Part I!

    Note: We appreciate and encourage discussion, so please keep your posts as civil, thoughtful, relevant and insightful as possible. Please do not post any improper or inflammatory material. We will issue warnings if we believe it necessary. Please keep discussion ON-TOPIC!
     
  20. Wonderwall

    Wonderwall Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2006
    Messages:
    16,578
    Likes Received:
    96
    What a great movie, I remember hyping myself alot for it, even though I wasn't sure it would be good. But from the trailers I had seen at the time and all the pictures that came out online, I thought it was going to be amazing. And for once I wasn't disappointed:D. For the first time in the live action movies, it was finally about Batman, and by this time I was becoming a very big Batman mark( actually knowing the history, reading more into the character, rewatching the BTAS cartoons, knowing some of the more important stories, etc ). There's so much more to the movie I could say, but again, it's already been said a million times. It actually became my favorite Batman movie, long held by the 1989 version( which I still hold very high ). The sequel looks and from what I hear is better, so I can't wait to see it.
     

Share This Page

  • Find Toonzone on Facebook

  • Toonzone News

  • Site Updates

    Upcoming Premieres

  • Toonzone Fan Sites


Tac Anti Spam from Surrey Forum